Bus Éireanns new coaches

Crumbs868

Rant ahead..

€460k a coach which is a similar figure to what they paid back in 2012. No wonder they are broke, wasting money on 4g(reliable 3G on the main roads of Ireland is hard enough to get), dedicated seat reservations(is the driver going to enforce this?), fancy interior, isofix seats(Ive never seen a child seat on a bus), expensive lcd screens for advertising etc.

I doubt all these expensive non essential extras are going to temp new customers onboard their indirect routes.

is there no accountability for value in BE?

http://m.independent.ie/videos/irish-news/are-these-the-poshest-buses-in-ireland-bus-eireann-unveils-460k-buses-30966658.html

L1011

Expressway is profitable I believe

corktina

so they got all that extra for the same cost as a coach in 2012? How is that wasting money? well done BE

Crumbs868

L1011 wrote: »

Expressway is profitable I believe

I would question their accounting as most of the expensive expressway coaches which i see are fairly empty / consist of bus pass passengers. Also take into account that when a compeditor emerges on a route they throw the kitchen sink at it driving even less revenue.

Even if it is profitable they should not be over specing their coaches when BE and their parent company are making huge losses even after massive state aid.

Crumbs868

corktina wrote: »

so they got all that extra for the same cost as a coach in 2012? How is that wasting money? well done BE

What a surprise, ignore the whole point of the thread only to nitpick one point so you can disagree with other posters just for the sake of it

devnull

It's good that BE are upgrading their vehicle, but it's clearly a reactionary thing to others who introduced many of those features on their services a while ago rather than them being pro-active and leading the way.

The irony of the whole thing is many of the services on that network are anything but Express, since other more innovative operators have gone out there and created innovation on the routes, leaving Bus Eireann trailing in their wake.

The problem with Bus Eireann is it's all about marketing and shiny new coaches, rather than about the services themselves. They brand the routes expressway, but the vast majority of them are not express at all, but are marketed as such.

They have no problem with investing 20m in new coaches, which will no doubt only be put on the operations with the most competition and investment from other operators and kept away from the routes with little to no competition, but won't order one less coach and use the 500k to invest in start-up costs for new innovative changes to their routes.

BE claim that they cannot get licenses for the key routes. Well that is again because they are reactive rather than proactive. Only when the competition applies or announces new routes, does the company want to change their own, by which point the licenses for corridors are already gone.

BE need to lead and do do something to proactively enhance their routes, especially on the ones where they are still the lead operator, to maintain their position, rather than constantly playing catch up. But they never do it. On many of the key routes 5-10 years ago they were the lead operator, but innovation from others has left BE trailing in their wake and took a lot of passengers out of them.

BE themselves could have done many of those things, but instead decided to just keep spending money and vehicles and marketing, rather than innovating with services, frequency, timetables, non stop operation etc.

corktina

Crumbs868 wrote: »

What a surprise, ignore the whole point of the thread only to nitpick one point so you can disagree with other posters just for the sake of it

The point of the thread being to moan at BE spending the same on coaches now as they did three years ago but to a higher spec?

corktina

as reagrds the isofix seats, my daughter wont use buses becuase there is no provision for a baby seat....maybeshe will be able to now and maybe the investment (if no extra cost can be an investment) will bring in extra passengers like her.

No doubt the same applies to other aspects for other people. People don't want to travel long distances in a basic vehicle, they want a degree of comfort. It's about improving the fleet and building the business

L1011

Crumbs868 wrote: »

I would question their accounting as most of the expensive expressway coaches which i see are fairly empty / consist of bus pass passengers. Also take into account that when a compeditor emerges on a route they throw the kitchen sink at it driving even less revenue.

They're not PSO routes so they can't be cross-subsidised from other services.

Crumbs868 wrote: »

Even if it is profitable they should not be over specing their coaches when BE and their parent company are making huge losses even after massive state aid.

If they don't invest, they aren't going to be in a position to return profits to pay for the loss making PSO routes once their competitors have eaten them alive.

corktina

You do realise I suppose that BE do get paid for passengers on passes?

Crumbs868

Would the other 99.99% of other customers(ie the real ones) prefer a respectable standard of coach and lower fares rather than top of the range ones with fancy extras with high fares? Compare these coaches to Aircoach's new cork ones. Aircoach's surely cost a hell of a lot less(to buy and run) in particular being only 2 axles. BE's coaches are rarely full (at the moment anyway, but wait until all the mothers arrive) so why the need for 3 axles?

It seems that the procurement team are out of sync with the general condition of their company. Investing in electronic advertising on buses? I can only imagine the amount of people they have dedicated to bring this pipedream to reality and maintain it and that will be very annoying for customers, I dont want to have to watch / listen to ads forced onto me.

BTW I cant find the link to the 2012 purchase of coaches but I think it was lower than what they have just paid, maybe €420k.

corktina wrote: »

You do realise I suppose that BE do get paid for passengers on passes?

Tell me this, why have most of the private companies withdrawn from this? I wonder is it because it doesn't make financial sense.


Not sure what is with certain boards posters on C&T and their fascination with nit picking and arguing rather than having a discussion (not you L1011). Whatever you way you look at it €460k for a coach is crazy money but yet they prefer to focus on things like ISO seats justifying it. Might explain all the closed accounts around the place. Anyway it will be a long time before I bother posting a thread on here because of posters like this.

Goodbye

corktina

Bye.

Three axles allows a longer vehicle with a greater payload of passengers and their luggage

I can't believe some of your comments..

investing in electronic advertising? do you think they advertise things for free?

dedicated booked seating? that's a good thing and much more enforcible on a coach. Important to someone boarding en route to know there seat will be there for them

isofix seating? extra safety is important

and so on

It's not nit-picking and arguing, it's just having a different opinion to you

devnull

The wheelchair and toilet set up the Bus Eireann coaches substantially reduced their luggage capacity, since the wheelchair lift is not through the door, but takes up space that the luggage could be put in under the seating area, whilst having a sunken toilet, rather than a floor level toilet, also restricts luggage capacity further.

I'd doubt there is any more luggage capacity than a wheelchair setup through the main door, and a floor level toilet of a two axle, infact there is probably less.

The seats are also fairly tight on the SE's certainly less space than the SP's that were purchased up to 2009. I'd rather have a good seat with decent legroom rather than a excellent seat that is squashed.

corktina

cetain features are possibly a legal requirement nowadays too, such as ISOFIX seats which are a requirement in cars I know

Crumbs868

corktina wrote: »

Bye.

Three axles allows a longer vehicle with a greater payload of passengers and their luggage

I can't believe some of your comments..

investing in electronic advertising? do you think they advertise things for free?

dedicated booked seating? that's a good thing and much more enforcible on a coach. Important to someone boarding en route to know there seat will be there for them

isofix seating? extra safety is important

and so on

It's not nit-picking and arguing, it's just having a different opinion to you

Dedicated seats will be a disaster.
-Do you think the drivers will enforce reserved seats?
-What about someone reserving a seat from athlone to Dublin on the Galway dublin bus. Nobody from Galway to Dublin can sit on that seat unless they want to be moved at athlone.
-Will probably lengthen journeys as bus driver has to wait for passengers to find their seat and move people around.
-if an elderly person is in your seat are you going to move them? If not where do you sit?
-how will people know if a seat is reserved? More expensive led displays, more maintenance?
More trouble than they are worth. They should invest in simplifying their website not making it more complicated.

3 axles are heavier, more expensive to buy and maintain. If air coach have a higher load factor and can manage without them why do BE need them. As yes because they are getting s CAPITAL grant so let's go to town on the spec

I have never seen a child seat on a bus, infact most child seats in Ireland (except your daughters I guess) are non ISO seats as they are so expensive

Do you think advertising will pay for itself? I doubt it. It will have been designed by an internal BE team with possibly little collaboration from Irish rail / Dublin bus. Do you think customers want it? Has Ryanair not recently pulled back on this sort of thing in the name of passenger comfort? I am not logging onto to a crappy '4g' reception(Irish rail can't get consistent 3G on the cork line) only to have to watch a 2 min ad like I expect i will have to do. This is not to mention vandalism. Vandals tucked away in their seat invisible to most people can cause a lot of damage

What's that about the bus pass comment?

I call it nit picking when a poster ignores the larger theme of a thread in order to nit pick on small aspects just for the sake of disagreeing

corktina

Dedicated seats on airplanes works perfectly well.
Many of your points are in fact nit-picking. Vandalism? on a town bus it might be a problem...in a dedicated seat on a coach? can't see it happening.

devnull

Most of the problems with dedicated seats stem from the fact there are multiple pick up and drop off points on the way, which is not such an issue on planes.

Atlantic Dawn

What would be the saving between these and the lower poverty spec model? I would think 10% or less, well worth spending the extra if you ask me.

devnull

Aircoach models cost somewhere in the region of £250k each in 2014 from looking around, that is about €330k in current cash, but the exchange rate was much more favorable in those days so it was probably a little over 300k or so.

These days there is no such thing as a low spec poverty model, many coaches have different options on them and can have the spec customized in many ways, depending on what the client wants, from everything from flooring, seating, type of wheelchair lift, toilet to seat fabric, different AV equipment, legroom, airconditioning, mirror setup etc, carpet type, lots can be customised.

ednwireland

considering my only option to get to dublin or the airport is to drive or get a be bus or a private operator (on a clapped out coach)for a couple of euro less. I choose be every time .The wireless is great if a bit flaky in places.
The new coaches are great to be honest find the service from donegal to Dublin great.
It's certainly a lot cheaper than driving paying tolls and parking if you just want to go to the city.

corktina

devnull wrote: »

Most of the problems with dedicated seats stem from the fact there are multiple pick up and drop off points on the way, which is not such an issue on planes.

It's not a problem if you have all booked accomodation with no walk-up passengers, It's these that cause the problems with the booking system on the trains, no doubt the same would apply on coaches.

AndyBoBandy

The spokeswoman on the news yesterday said the emissions from one of these new coaches was something like 200 times less than a coach from 1995, i.i. 200 of these new coaches have the same combined emissions as 1 coach from 1995.

If true, thats quite impressive.

devnull

I'm generally not a fan of that though, people in Ireland are not used to that, in comparison with other countries and they always expect to be able to pay on the coach.

Even with privates offering decent sized discounts on online fares, there are still a large number of passengers paying cash even though there are cheaper ways whilst others also want their ticket to be flexible, rather than tied to a particular time.

The only people who tried what you suggest were GoBe, and they abandoned that fairly quickly.

L1011

Something I only thought of now - the 4g kit is just the current model of the WiFi system they use on all the other buses, trains and DB buses anyway, it's a free 'enhancement' they may as well mention. Not costing any more than the units all the private operators use either

end of the road

Crumbs868 wrote: »

I would question their accounting as most of the expensive expressway coaches which i see are fairly empty / consist of bus pass passengers. Also take into account that when a compeditor emerges on a route they throw the kitchen sink at it driving even less revenue.

Even if it is profitable they should not be over specing their coaches when BE and their parent company are making huge losses even after massive state aid.

how are they "overspecking" their coaches. let me guess, you would rather they would buy bottom of the barrel coaches with no facilities what so ever meaning nobody wanting to use them? thats a great strategy. sounds like your just ranting over nothing for the sake of ranting because its bus eireann

end of the road

Crumbs868 wrote: »

Would the other 99.99% of other customers(ie the real ones) prefer a respectable standard of coach and lower fares rather than top of the range ones with fancy extras with high fares?

they would like top of the range ones with decent fares.

Crumbs868 wrote: »

Whatever you way you look at it €460k for a coach is crazy money but yet they prefer to focus on things like ISO seats justifying it.

you pay a lot for a good coach. thats the end of it.

Crumbs868

end of the road wrote: »

you pay a lot for a good coach. thats the end of it.

Thanks for bringing closure all makes sense now. I'm off to the motors forum to post;

you pay a lot for a good car thats the end of It


Then I'm off to the aviation forum to post;

you pay a lot for a good plane. thats the end of it

LXFlyer

OP, I think you seem to have a whole series of misunderstandings and misconceptions about this.

Bus Eireann Expressway services do not receive a subsidy - they are their commercial operation.

Any new coaches purchased for Expressway services are not subject to capital grants or any other form of State support - they have to be funded by the company in full.

Bus Eireann Expressway services are a mix of:
- Express services, either non-stop or limited intermediate stops, and
- Multi-stop services, with more intermediate stops

There is a clear market for both types of service, although sometimes when I read posts here, I think that some people seem to think that the intermediate points should have no service whatsoever which is not the case.

Also, all commercial and PSO services in this country are regulated by the National Transport Authority. No operator can add extra buses onto a route unless that is approved by the NTA. So this notion that you have about Bus Eireann - "when a competitor emerges on a route they throw the kitchen sink at it" - is long gone.

The NTA have clear guidelines about issuing licenses for commercial services:

Express services:
- No more than two operators operating the same route
- 30 minute time separation from other express services

Multi-stop services:
- No more than two operators operating the same route
- 30 minute time separation from other multi-stop services

Also, entry to the DSP Free Travel Scheme for new services has been suspended by the DSP for several years now, as a result of cost cutting measures. Perhaps that's where you are getting the notion that private operators have withdrawn from the scheme.

It's worth noting, however, that BE do not receive an individual payment for each PSO passenger, but rather receive a block payment for operating the scheme.

It's a bit unfair to suggest that BE have not made changes. BE have been making regular changes to the network on the routes from Dublin in terms of frequency and times, despite what was suggested above. Both the Limerick and Waterford routes now have far less stops than before for example.

Plus BE have expanded to serve Dublin Airport on most of their commercial services over the last number of years, giving much of Ireland a direct connection.

devnull

lxflyer wrote: »

It's a bit unfair to suggest that BE have not made changes. BE have been making regular changes to the network on the routes from Dublin in terms of frequency and times, despite what was suggested above. Both the Limerick and Waterford routes now have far less stops than before for example.

Plus BE have expanded to serve Dublin Airport on most of their commercial services over the last number of years, giving much of Ireland a direct connection.

I agree with everything else in your post, but as far as commercial acumen goes BE have not demonstrated enough of it over the past few years and have been playing catch up for a long while on many corridors due to being too conservative when it comes to improving services.

A lot of their changes are reactionary to competition changes, rather than being proactive or leading the way, which is very disappointing. They were the lead operator on many routes but the private operators were more innovative on many corridors which reduced their market share on some intercity routes.

There also is an attempt to market things they are not and misleading use of X in route numbers. The Belfast route is a very good example of this which was clearly influenced by the activities of the competition following the return to Aircoach. I would rather see BE improve the routes than just market them to make them sound better than they actually are.

On the Belfast example you had a situation where Aircoach started a true express route between the cities, and very quickly BE/TL renamed the non Express variant of their route the X1, whilst leaving the actual express route as the X2. The X1 now goes around with "Dublin Express" on the display, despite the act it's not an express at all but since Aircoach has that on their displays, they obviously want to match that and make their service look like it offers more expresses than it actually does.

To top it all off then the coaches had new branding added to them saying they were "Fast, Frequent and More Direct" that's very ironic when you consider the service in question is the slowest and least direct of any public transport operators serving the two cities. This is the kind of stuff that I really hate to see and it really needs regulating,although with it being cross border it's probably a grey area.

LXFlyer

devnull wrote: »

I agree with everything else in your post, but as far as commercial acumen goes BE have not demonstrated enough of it over the past few years and have been playing catch up for a long while on many corridors due to being too conservative when it comes to improving services.

A lot of their changes are reactionary to competition changes, rather than being proactive or leading the way, which is very disappointing. They were the lead operator on many routes but the private operators were more innovative on many corridors which reduced their market share on some intercity routes.

There also is an attempt to market things they are not and misleading use of X in route numbers. The Belfast route is a very good example of this which was clearly influenced by the activities of the competition following the return to Aircoach. I would rather see BE improve the routes than just market them to make them sound better than they actually are.

On the Belfast example you had a situation where Aircoach started a true express route between the cities, and very quickly BE/TL renamed the non Express variant of their route the X1, whilst leaving the actual express route as the X2. The X1 now goes around with "Dublin Express" on the display, despite the act it's not an express at all but since Aircoach has that on their displays, they obviously want to match that and make their service look like it offers more expresses than it actually does.

To top it all off then the coaches had new branding added to them saying they were "Fast, Frequent and More Direct" that's very ironic when you consider the service in question is the slowest and least direct of any public transport operators serving the two cities. This is the kind of stuff that I really hate to see and it really needs regulating,although with it being cross border it's probably a grey area.

We don't know what exactly has been going on, but let's be honest I would imagine that like the rest of the CIÉ Group, Bus Éireann have been in pretty much "lock down" mode, focussing on maintaining services.

But we are now beginning to see change happening again across all of the companies. But I think you're a tad unfair - BE have made changes, particularly with relation to improving connectivity from Dublin Airport.

I'd also think your definition of "express" is a bit tight being honest - an express service is not defined as non-stop. It can also be a service with limited stops.

Apart from Dublin Airport there are only three stops on the Bus Eireann / Translink service between Dublin and Belfast at Newry, Banbridge and Sprucefield. That, frankly, would be sufficient to be described as an express service.

devnull

lxflyer wrote: »

I'd also think your definition of "express" is a bit tight being honest - an express service is not defined as non-stop. It can also be a service with limited stops.

My idea of an express service is of either a non stop service, or of a service that is faster than other services on a route or a faster version of an already existing route.

The fact that the BE route numbering on that route is coupled with a livery that claims it's fast, frequent and more direct, suggests it is about marketing because the competition has a true express route that runs a lot more regularly than the X2.

The fact the word "More" is used suggests it's comparing itself with something and saying it is the most direct service when it isn't.

Apart from Dublin Airport there are only three stops on the Bus Eireann / Translink service between Dublin and Belfast at Newry, Banbridge and Sprucefield. That, frankly, would be sufficient to be described as an express service.

I disagree with the way the route numbering is happening. The X2 is a faster version of the X1, yet it has a different number? That goes against international norms. That is before you take into account there is a Bus Eireann Service 2 that it has nothing in common with,

When there is a faster version of one route than the other, it's common for the slower one to be given the normal route number and the faster more limited stop one to be given the X prefix. They should be given the one route number and the more direct version should be given the X.

LXFlyer

devnull wrote: »

I agree with everything else in your post, but as far as commercial acumen goes BE have not demonstrated enough of it over the past few years and have been playing catch up for a long while on many corridors due to being too conservative when it comes to improving services.

A lot of their changes are reactionary to competition changes, rather than being proactive or leading the way, which is very disappointing. They were the lead operator on many routes but the private operators were more innovative on many corridors which reduced their market share on some intercity routes.

There also is an attempt to market things they are not and misleading use of X in route numbers. The Belfast route is a very good example of this which was clearly influenced by the activities of the competition following the return to Aircoach. I would rather see BE improve the routes than just market them to make them sound better than they actually are.

On the Belfast example you had a situation where Aircoach started a true express route between the cities, and very quickly BE/TL renamed the non Express variant of their route the X1, whilst leaving the actual express route as the X2. The X1 now goes around with "Dublin Express" on the display, despite the act it's not an express at all but since Aircoach has that on their displays, they obviously want to match that and make their service look like it offers more expresses than it actually does.

To top it all off then the coaches had new branding added to them saying they were "Fast, Frequent and More Direct" that's very ironic when you consider the service in question is the slowest and least direct of any public transport operators serving the two cities. This is the kind of stuff that I really hate to see and it really needs regulating,although with it being cross border it's probably a grey area.

Just to go back to this - you do seem completely focussed on non-stop services.

They are all well and good, but there is a sizeable inter-urban market that BE have pretty much to themselves. That market is one that needs to be retained, not abandoned.

If BE were to go down the route of adding non-stop services on every route it would mean almost doubling the fleet size and increasing staffing significantly in order to maintain the existing inter-urban services that stop along the route.

I'm not convinced that BE has that kind of resources now (or in recent years) - in fact quite the opposite. It has been a case of maintaining what they have and developing those services where they can.

There is a mix to be achieved here, and if private operators want to add extra services, then I'm all in favour of it.

LXFlyer

devnull wrote: »

My idea of an express service is of either a non stop service, or of a service that is faster than other services on a route or a faster version of an already existing route.

The fact that the BE route numbering on that route is coupled with a livery that claims it's fast, frequent and more direct, suggests it is about marketing because the competition has a true express route that runs a lot more regularly than the X2.

The fact the word "More" is used suggests it's comparing itself with something and saying it is the most direct service when it isn't.

I disagree with the way the route numbering is happening. The X2 is a faster version of the X1, yet it has a different number? That goes against international norms. That is before you take into account there is a Bus Eireann Service 2 that it has nothing in common with,

When there is a faster version of one route than the other, it's common for the slower one to be given the normal route number and the faster more limited stop one to be given the X prefix. They should be given the one route number and the more direct version should be given the X.

Route numbers should not be a marketing tool, and neither should liveries make claims that could mislead.

I think you can certainly call the X1 an "express" service - it is not stopping all along the route. I think your definition is a little bit skewed to be honest.


With regard to the X2, well maybe you should take that up with Translink as it is their numbering system that is used for the X2 service and the X4 service between Dublin and Derry.


BE services have always been 1 or X1.

currins_02

The X2 began as a summer only direct service between the airport and Belfast run by BE exclusively (could not accept free travel as was post the closing of new PSO services). It was operated by Bernard Kavanagh's for a summer and Boyce Coaches for another. It was poorly marketed and not used to relieve pressure. BE stance staff at the airport seemed to forget it existed and actively encouraging passengers to wait on next 1 service was typical stuff. BE withdrew the service then based on poor usage. Ulsterbus then took it over, adapted it and have made it successful. So the X2 number came from no one but Bus Eireann.

The prices being quoted for the coaches is overstated, prices of over €450k would be typical for mega spec twin deck top brand coaches. The Scania Irizar combination is competent, comfortable (subject to spec) and reliable but is generally mid to bottom range in terms of price. Most of the spec is standard stuff (for instance the LED lighting and LCD screens are, and have been for years, standard on Irizar i6 coaches). The ISO Fix clips are on their 2012 coaches so nothing new there either. They've made a haimse of the balancing of adding a toilet and their silly wheelchair position to the detriment of usable luggage space.

An excellent job by the PR team but when the surface is scratched it's in the main a case of nothing to see here.

Reserved seating is going to be a disaster on services with intermediate stops. Toilets are going to be interesting, in that who is going to clean them, empty them, stock them (paper, soap, towels etc) during the day? Some of the Expressway coaches work up to 20 hour diagrams, with only short layovers between services. If something goes wrong with toilet on lap 1 how is that addressed? Will it even be checked as I believe drivers unions are adamant it is not part of their role to even check never mind do the dirty work? Not to mention they haven't got toilet drop facilities in most depots to facilitate emptying the tanks.

Great to see new coaches coming in but with a little bit of insight and calm there is little substance to report.

PS: do a comparison of Expressway services with private competition and see who was first to service the airport on each one - Limerick (JJ Kavanagh was first), Galway (Citylink/GoBus formerly Nestor were all there first), Letterkenny (McGinley were first), Wexford Bus were first....will I continue? Wifi? virtually last with it too. Triaxle high capacity coaches? last again....BE have made improvements, much more are needed but they have much more to do. They remain reactionary at a high level but I can see them starting to wake up (Probably aided by recent addition of an ex private sector CEO).

Jamie2k9

Notice that some old buses have being repainted into the new "expressway" buses. Have they made changes internally?

foggy_lad

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Notice that some old buses have being repainted into the new "expressway" buses. Have they made changes internally?

No, seats damaged beyond use will be removed and torn seats repaired with glue or have loose bits trimmed away, loose panels will be screwed down and broken reclining seats welded in upright position, but nothing more is done.

Jamie2k9

foggy_lad wrote: »

No, seats damaged beyond use will be removed and torn seats repaired with glue or have loose bits trimmed away, loose panels will be screwed down and broken reclining seats welded in upright position, but nothing more is done.

Noticed one of the actual new expressway ones on route 4 today, is it regular or the odd time?

ted1

L1011 wrote: »

Expressway is profitable I believe

It's all about the PSO payment.
http://www.buseireann.ie/pdf/1360855182-contract_buseir.pdf

Going Forward

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/92m-spent-to-upgrade-bus-fleet-30968879.html

Z list celebrities photo ops and a press conference are now required to "launch" some new buses??

Money no object apparently.

foggy_lad

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Noticed one of the actual new expressway ones on route 4 today, is it regular or the odd time?

The new tri-axle buses(only one, but its a start) have been used on route 004/X4 for quite a while now and 5 more are supposed to be going onto the route early this year so Waterford just might be getting some brand new buses but I doubt they will. more likely to be given some of the buses now used on the Wexford route as all the new buses seem to go to Rosslare.

L1011

ted1 wrote: »

It's all about the PSO payment.
http://www.buseireann.ie/pdf/1360855182-contract_buseir.pdf

Expressway isn't PSO

foggy_lad

The new bus Éireann double decker city buses are all lined up in the place outside Naas ready to be collected. It's an awful shame the nta didn't specify they be supplied with centre doors.

bk

These new coaches really aren't high specced or particularly impressive, even for Ireland.

They are really low to medium spec.

Citylinks interdeck Vanhools, now they are a much higher spec then these coaches. Vanhool, is a top tier brand, with superb build quality and due to them being interdeckers, they have far more seat capacity and luggage capacity then these new BE coaches, while actually having more legroom per seat.

Wifi, leather seats, ISO fix seats, timber effect flooring, LED interior lighting have all been available on various private operators like Citylink coaches for years.

What is surprising is how much they are paying for these coaches! For €460k, you really should be able to buy an interdecker coach from a top tier brand like Vanhool. It looks like BE got ripped off here! They should either be paying €50 to €100k less for these coaches or buying interdeckers for this price.

I'm glad to see BE finally following the private companies and introducing toilets. But it remains to be seen if they clean and maintain those toilets correctly.

I think reserved seating is a total waste of time and money on a coach and I think it will be a disaster. Adverts also seem to be a waste and anti-passenger move.

I have to agree with devnull about BE and innovation. This disease seems to effect all the CIE companies, DB/BE/IR all seem to think that buying shiny new buses/coaches/trains is innovating.

It isn't what people want, it is innovation in faster journey times, more depatures, more frequent depatures, etc. that people want.

The Cork to Dublin route is a perfect example of this. I'm sure these shiny new coaches will end up on this route.

BE's Cork route took 4.5 hours even after the motorway was completed. Frequency was only 2 hours and the last bus of the day was 6pm!!!

Aircoach brought real innovation to the route, hourly service that operates almost 24 hours a day, 3 hour journey time and also goes to the airport.

This service totally blew BE out of the water and was truly innovative. Sure these new BE coaches might be (very slightly) better spec then Aircoaches new coaches (but also WAY cheaper), but that isn't going to pull people off Aircoach when BE's journey times are still over 4 hours, frequency only every 2 hours and the last bus is still 6pm!!!

You can see the same on all the intercity routes, Citylink/GoBus to Galway, Dublin Coach to Limerick, etc.

All the CIE companies are failing miserably in delivering the improvements people actually want, improvements that would require changes in work practices and not just shiny new buses.

For IR it is faster journey times (and earlier and later services on certain routes) and more frequency on DART. For DB it is also faster journey times (by reducing dwell times by using multi-door operations and zero driver interaction ticketing) and 24 hour operations.

These are the innovations people want, not just stupid shiny new buses and trains.

Crumbs868

Thank you BK so much more eloquently put than my OP. My main argument all along was with the price, doesn't make sense especially with the amount of irizar scanias they have purchased in the last few years

Now where is that poster who reckons reserved seating is a good idea.....

joegriffinjnr

The new bus Éireann double decker city buses are all lined up in the place outside Naas ready to be collected. It's an awful shame the nta didn't specify they be supplied with centre doors.

Foggy, they have been sitting up there for over a month now, Volvo don't seem to want to release them for whatever reason... Has anyone remembered to pay the bill lads?:D

foggy_lad

joegriffinjnr wrote: »

Foggy, they have been sitting up there for over a month now, Volvo don't seem to want to release them for whatever reason... Has anyone remembered to pay the bill lads?:D

Maybe they are on hold waiting for the right time to announce them so as to provide the best photo opportunity for the minister?