Improving average speed for sportives

tamaskan

Greetings,

Been cycling nearly 3 years now and have done a few 85k An Post Rebel tour sportives as well the 2014 Etape Ras Mumhan which was 145k. My average speed for the events I have done is 25kph. I have also done a few 40k hilly cycle legs of a triathlon at 28kph average.
I would like to increase my average speed for these events to 27kph this year. Since the new year, I've been doing two rides per week totalling about 150k. My problem is I find it hard to hold myself back to zone 2 or 3 heart rate due to usually being in a hurry to get back and just being bored riding long rides slowly. From what I've read I should be doing most of my training at zones 2 or 3 rather than z4 if I want to get fitter and faster.

So with the Etape Ras Mumhan only 9 weeks or so away, any tips on what I should be doing with what little time I have left to increase that speed.

P.S. Title should read 'Improving' not. 'Impressing'.

07Lapierre

Sportives are not a race? What's the hurry?

Cee-Jay-Cee

Personally I'd ditch the HRM. your not training for racing or a grand tour so go out and cycle to your ability. Your body knows when it's at its peak/max and it'll let you know, you can ease off then.

I've been cycling 3 years also, I'm 45 now and was completely unfit and overweight (by 2 St) when I started but have lost that weight and can average 30kmph over 120km. I have managed 35kmph over 85km in a fast group last summer but that was probably near my limit/peak. I have a HRM but don't wear it, I don't need a monitor to tell me when my heart rate is near its max.

Beasty

tamaskan wrote: »

P.S. Title should read 'Improving' not. 'Impressing'.

Sorted (think you could have changed it yourself via the "advanced" edit option btw)

tamaskan

Sportives are not a race? What's the hurry?

The hurry? Well I'm not racing against anyone per se, but I do like to go around in my best time. As do most people if we're being honest.

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

Personally I'd ditch the HRM. your not training for racing or a grand tour so go out and cycle to your ability. Your body knows when it's at its peak/max and it'll let you know, you can ease off then.

I've been cycling 3 years also, I'm 45 now and was completely unfit and overweight (by 2 St) when I started but have lost that weight and can average 30kmph over 120km. I have managed 35kmph over 85km in a fast group last summer but that was probably near my limit/peak. I have a HRM but don't wear it, I don't need a monitor to tell me when my heart rate is near its max.

Like you I've also lost 2 stone in two years. I've also done 30kph group rides on flatter terrain, just not in the mountains of cork and Kerry where the events I do are based. I don't watch the HRM while I'm training, just when I get back to see what my average is. And I don't need a monitor to tell me when my HR is near it's max either, but it's handy to have the info when I'm finished the ride. But that's not what I'm asking about really. What I'm asking is when I am training would I be better off doing most of it at Z3 or at the same effort I would be going at during an event?

nilhg

tamaskan wrote: »

Greetings,

Been cycling nearly 3 years now and have done a few 85k An Post Rebel tour sportives as well the 2014 Etape Ras Mumhan which was 145k. My average speed for the events I have done is 25kph. I have also done a few 40k hilly cycle legs of a triathlon at 28kph average.
I would like to increase my average speed for these events to 27kph this year. Since the new year, I've been doing two rides per week totalling about 150k. My problem is I find it hard to hold myself back to zone 2 or 3 heart rate due to usually being in a hurry to get back and just being bored riding long rides slowly. From what I've read I should be doing most of my training at zones 2 or 3 rather than z4 if I want to get fitter and faster.

So with the Etape Ras Mumhan only 9 weeks or so away, any tips on what I should be doing with what little time I have left to increase that speed.

P.S. Title should read 'Improving' not. 'Impressing'.

My understanding is that the idea of doing those long slowish Z2/Z3 rides is mostly aimed at racing riders who have taken a couple of months more or less completely off the bike at the end of the season, the spins build back up their aerobic base, if you're not a racer and have kept spinning through the year this may not apply to the same extent.

I'm no expert, I can only talk about what helped me to improve my average speed at sportives and survive in the bunch at a few club league races and that's a mixture of longish spins at the weekends, some solo and some club spins, and short spins during the week, some of them really easy recovery spins and others really hard efforts, some of those flat out all the way or others a decent pace with a something like 2x20 intervals in the middle.

Probably the best way to improve though is to ride regularly with lads who are stronger than you, not nice at the start but after a while you should be able to hang in for longer each week.

07Lapierre wrote: »

Sportives are not a race? What's the hurry?

Not everyone wants to or can spare the time to race, there is some satisfaction in setting a target and achieving it.

07Lapierre

nilhg wrote: »

Not everyone wants to or can spare the time to race, there is some satisfaction in setting a target and achieving it.

Fair enough, but I find racing takes up less time than Sportive's.

irishrover99

Different people use sportive's for different things. I'd say the more you do, it becomes more of a day out to socialize while for myself at the moment i do take a interest in the average speed.
I got around last years Wicklow 200 in about 25kph in horrendous weather and it was a really tough day and i was happy with that speed. I know on a better day i could do it faster so it is hard to judge your performance by the time you done it in.
I suppose ill know were i am in terms of fitness compared to last year if it pisses all day again in this years event.

Luxman

One thing I would say is be patient. It takes time. Riding with stronger people will help. Solo runs for me as nilhig says should include intervals, shorts flat out bursts of a min or two and then recovery for a min or 2. I can fit 9 or 10 of these into a 36k spin. Very flat and ignore all data. Go on how you feel

nordicb

I'm not expert, but from other sports, I think, you need to include both aerobic and anaerobic exercises into training schedule. In one day, like others say, do intervals or pyramids hitting zone 4-5 for periods of time for about an hour and then up to zone 2 for another 2 hours to get rid of lactic acid. Aerobic day to stay in zone 1-2 for 2 hours. Each on separate day. The latter requires discipline and should feel like no work is done. The training requires consistence and commitment.

You may also need to look at the riding style, whether you are riding smart utilizing your momentum and terrain, using proper gearing/cadence, brakes, drafting, bike fit etc for longer rides - dispensing energy wisely and efficiently. Fueling and learning what and when works for you is very important.

Your own weight and the gear play significant part here too.

Ditch the HRM on the event.

Just my 2c.

Captain Havoc

Could you not just get in a decent group?

NeedMoreGears

When I first started doing sportifs, I found I was significantly weaker on hills relative to other particpants whereas I was fine, possibly even a bit quicker than some on the flat. Improvements on hills probably upped my overall speed by c. 2kph ( I was really crap and after a few hills my flat speed would suffer). Is there any aspect you could work on?

After that, as mentioned above, a decent group is very helpful ; 30kph for even a half hour on the flat will help drag up your speed.

Pacing is important - there's no point in hammering the first two hours only to die in the second two.

n-dawg

I'm surprised it has taken this long...

But have you considered a new bike?

BoardsMember

Its a relief for a newbie to read some sensible, non-high tech advice on this subject. Like riding with stronger riders. I dont have HRM or know my max heart rate, or power output or anything like that. But I know an hour or two a week on the turbo killing myself as often as I can, and going for as long as I can helps a lot. Added to a few games of five aside a week, and riding with a reasonably strong group on weekend with the club has improved my endurance/speed/strength no end. I could still get stronger on the hills so might try some of the 2min x 20 intervals, as suggested, on a short spin when the days get longer. On the hills my lungs and legs kill me!

tamaskan

Thanks everyone for all your advice. Some good nuggets in there. I've really been working on my climbing over the last two months and can see big improvements already. I'm 88kg so it's never gonna be easy, but it's amazing how much u can improve in a short time. I guess finding a decent group to ride with during an event makes all the difference. I have always ridden by myself in events as I always train alone as I can't go out with a club at weekends due to work, so I just never bothered during a sportive either. So sounds like a plan.

JK.BMC

Become more efficient/aerodynamic on the bike; wear better fitting gear so as to avoid drag; eat fewer buns at the stops; all will help in a small way

youtheman

Solution is simple : cycle in a group. And if you get dropped on a hill you have to force yourself to slow down to allow another group catch you ASAP (as was pointed out to me when I started). Nothing worse that getting dropped and emptying the tank into a headwind ..........!

ROK ON

tamaskan wrote: »

I'm 88kg . . .

You are too heavy. I am 3kg heavier than you so I know what going up the hills of the Beara is like at that weight.
In a course with rolling terrain with some very short sharp climbs and some climbs of medium gradient with 6km in length then you will only go faster by shedding a significant amount of weight. To do anything else is largely delusional - trust my I've been there and not made much progress.

To out some of this into context a few years ago while training for a foreign event I dropped from 95kg to'87kg. I used to test myself on a local climb (4.5k @'steady 5%). It used to take me 19mins then at 87kg it took me 13min30s. Now I am back at about 16min.

If you really want to be fast you need to be a lot lighter.

Also you are working on climbing. For the areas where you want to do events, some of the descents are long and fast - others are very technical (Healy Pass to Adrigole). Practice descending as much as you practice climbing. Learn to descend safely without losing too much speed in the corners - then after you are comfortable just keep gradually increasing the pace. It takes patience.
Best of luck - best place in the country for sportifs and absolutely nothing wrong with wanting to set a target and go faster. While it's not a race that doesn't mean that a person can't treat it is a challenge.

Alek

You are too heavy.

If you really want to be fast you need to be a lot lighter.

There is a difference between 88kgs of lard and pure lean muscle. Do you know what is the OP's build?

Its a bit blunt advice then.


(I'm 84kg and I find myself better on hills than flats)

ford2600

Alek wrote: »

There is a difference between 88kgs of lard and pure lean muscle. Do you know what is the OP's build?

Its a bit blunt advice then.


(I'm 84kg and I find myself better on hills than flats)

Newton doesn't care:-)

ashleey

Power to weight ratio

ROK ON

Alek wrote: »

There is a difference between 88kgs of lard and pure lean muscle. Do you know what is the OP's build?

Its a bit blunt advice then.


(I'm 84kg and I find myself better on hills than flats)

Alberto Contador is faster uphill than Tom Boonen.
It doesn't matter. 88kg of fat will be in all likelihood faster than an unfat 88kg.

But 80kg will in all likelihood be faster than both.
If you could get up hills by being heavy then bikes would be heavier and no one taking cycling seriously would be trying to get weight down as low as is practical.

Like I said I am heavier than the OP - if I really want to get faster I have to prioritise getting lighter. The fact that I haven't been able tondo that tells me all I need to know.

07Lapierre

Even simpler solution..

We're talking about improving your average speed on a sportive right?....Cycle in a group and don't stop at the food stops. Your overall time will be less and your average speed will be higher

ROK ON

This cycling in a group thing is a red herring.
The OP wants to do sportifs in a part of the country that is a hilly is this country gets. You can do all of the train going that you like - that's good. But real gains will be made from weight loss unless you are already very light.
When you are going up the Healy Pass or Reentrusk then no group is going to help you. Likewise on the descents there is no advantage in a group if they can't take a technical descent safely and cohesively.

Lose weight go faster.
Occam's razor and all that.

07Lapierre

ROK ON wrote: »

This cycling in a group thing is a red herring.
The OP wants to do sportifs in a part of the country that is a hilly is this country gets. You can do all of the train going that you like - that's good. But real gains will be made from weight loss unless you are already very light.
When you are going up the Healy Pass or Reentrusk then no group is going to help you. Likewise on the descents there is no advantage in a group if they can't take a technical descent safely and cohesively.

Lose weight go faster.
Occam's razor and all that.

Even Kerry has some flat roads and headwinds no? Cycling in a group will conserve energy even if it is only for a small percentage of the overall distance?

desertcircus

There's a reason mountain specialists are the lightest breed in the peloton. Losing weight will do more than anything else for your average time. Losing weight by cycling as much as possible will strengthen your legs as well.

For what it's worth, if you're tight for free time, then the turbo, spinning classes or running will burn off weight fastest while increasing your aerobic capacity.

wanderer 22

ROK ON wrote: »

T

Lose weight go faster.
Occam's razor and all that.

Not the be all and end all though. I'm 60kg and am still shi*e

Lumen

desertcircus wrote: »

There's a reason mountain specialists are the lightest breed in the peloton.

They are for very long very steep climbs in stage races, but there's nothing in Ireland that would bother Cancellara or Cav.

Heavy isn't much of a problem, fat is.

Doc07

Captain Havoc wrote: »

Could you not just get in a decent group?

Fair point but depends on the sportive. I'm a bit line the OP, I don't want to 'race' the sportive bit like to challenge myself a bit with a target time or avg speed. A bit like many people would approach a marathon or fun run.

There are sportives that have a great variety of speeds and are very social and you will rarely be alone. Riding in a big group is a nice experience and bring around the cars, motorbike escorts etc allows the average Joe cyclist to indulge in a bit of fantasy Tour de France peloton. All harmless fun and part of the joy of cycling and shouldn't offend or annoy ( buy might amuse) the 'serious' cyclists.

However at the Junior Tour sportive last weekend, I could not hold the back of the bunch despite going over 30k/HR so the OPs qs is valid and realistic if you want to avoid long spells cycling alone, particularly if you are not attending the event with a club or group of friends.

Sorry for all the inverted commas!