Trail runners

PaulieC

I have been running in a pair of zero-drop trail runners but I find that they are very hard on my calves and Achilles, so I am looking for something with a bit more support, maybe up to a 10-12mm drop. Also looking for something quite grippy as I find myself getting more and more chickeny with age, so big lugs would be a must.

Cheap would be nice too

Any recommendations ?

clear thinking

Out of curiosity what were the zero drops? I'm a big fan of these. Maybe some exercises for the calves and feet would also be a (partial) solution?

PaulieC

clear thinking wrote: »

Out of curiosity what were the zero drops? I'm a big fan of these. Maybe some exercises for the calves and feet would also be a (partial) solution?

NB MT100 I think. I love them, but my calves and Achilles aren't the stretchiest and I end up having to stop a lot because of the stress on them. I am doing a lot of stretching and exercises at the moment for something possibly related, but I think that even an extra CM in there would ease things somewhat. Also, I found that since I last wore the NB, they either shrunk or my right foot grew as I ended up with a bleeding little toe on Sunday.

DubOnHoliday

I've picked up a pair of these last month, didn't want to spend too much either, and very happy with them. Not sure what the drop on them is...

http://www.debenhams.ie/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/prod_10052_10001_283010291563_-1

http://www.achillesheel.co.uk/asics-gel-trail-tambora-4-mens-trail-running-shoes-9390

PaulieC

ah sh1t, this was supposed to be in the gear section. Mods, could you please move this at your convenience ?

Stark

PaulieC wrote: »

NB MT100 I think. I love them, but my calves and Achilles aren't the stretchiest and I end up having to stop a lot because of the stress on them. I am doing a lot of stretching and exercises at the moment for something possibly related, but I think that even an extra CM in there would ease things somewhat. Also, I found that since I last wore the NB, they either shrunk or my right foot grew as I ended up with a bleeding little toe on Sunday.

Try some deep squats (like the guy in the second pic in the attached link), they work far more effectively than the standing against the wall stretches for the calves I find. http://www.mofo-elite.com/?p=431

If you're looking for a bit more heel to toe drop, I've found the Inov-8 x-talons to be very nice and they now come in "standard fit" too (I found the precision fit a bit too constricting for my liking, good for short races but not too nice for longer stuff). Super grippy and a good compromise between zero drop and clogs.

dna_leri

I got the Inov-8 Trailroc 245s recently which is 3-4 mm drop (depending which review you read). The 245s have a rock-plate which I thought I needed due to sharp rocks poking through my previous trail shoes (NB MTE101), though this does reduce the feel of the ground. You could also try the Trailroc 255 which is 6mm H-T drop.

I also considered the Nike Terra Kiger or Wildhorse (@ 4mm H-T) which have been getting good reviews, though they do not look as grippy as the Inov-8s. No rock-plates here but good cushioning.

I find http://runblogger.com/ good for reviews, though he does favour the lower Heel to Toe drop runners.

spurscormac

+1 on the Trailroc

I also have the 245s for a couple of years now. Don't do a whole lot off road, but find them great when I do.
They are also not too hard on the feet if you find yourself running on some hard packed or road surface.

robinph

Is there really a need to have a drop in a trail shoe? You are running on uneven ground that is at varying angles so one time you plant your foot the toes will be higher than the heel, the next time it will be at a completely different angle.

Now having a bit of cushioning I get, but the angle of drop in the shoe seems completely pointless.

PaulieC

robinph wrote: »

Is there really a need to have a drop in a trail shoe? You are running on uneven ground that is at varying angles so one time you plant your foot the toes will be higher than the heel, the next time it will be at a completely different angle.

Now having a bit of cushioning I get, but the angle of drop in the shoe seems completely pointless.

maybe that is the case, but I feel like my calves are being stretched to much when climbing and I thought that a bit of a drop would help lessen that ?

BeepBeep67

I find the trailrocs great, but if you are looking for cheap Puma have trail versions for some of their 300/350 series.

PaulieC

BeepBeep67 wrote: »

I find the trailrocs great, but if you are looking for cheap Puma have trail versions for some of their 300/350 series.

Not necessarily looking for cheap, but it does help. I was looking at the Faas 300 TR, but for around the same price (49.99 STG) I could get a pair of Salomon Fellraisers, Sense Mantra or for a few quid more a pair of inov8. I reckon that they would be better with a more solid track record in the trailrunning business than Puma.

robinph

PaulieC wrote: »

maybe that is the case, but I feel like my calves are being stretched to much when climbing and I thought that a bit of a drop would help lessen that ?

Someone with a better grasp of trigonometry can figure it out for us, but what is the actual angle of the drop between the heel and toe, and what is the angle of hill that you are climbing up? I'd have though the difference in the shoes angle is barely relevant when compared to the slope that you are running up and the tightness in the calves would be improved more by changes to the running style and practice of running up and down hills.

PaulieC

robinph wrote: »

Someone with a better grasp of trigonometry can figure it out for us, but what is the actual angle of the drop between the heel and toe, and what is the angle of hill that you are climbing up? I'd have though the difference in the shoes angle is barely relevant when compared to the slope that you are running up and the tightness in the calves would be improved more by changes to the running style and practice of running up and down hills.

Absolutely Robin, the biggest change will be to do more hill running stretching/strengthening.

inigo

I found the difference between the Merrell Trail Glove (0mm, no cushioning, rock plate on front half) and the Saucony Peregrine 3 (4mm, some cushioning, full rock plate) like day and night for the feet, but mostly for my calves. I suppose it's the combination of factors that makes the difference so big.

Another difference that comes to mind as I write this is the awareness, balance and feeling (proprioception?) when using the shoes above, and something to bear in mind. Even when I hill walk now I'll be wearing trail running shoes. If I put on my Scarpa boots I feel as if my feet and ankles have been put in a cast!

Finally, I very recently bought a pair of Trailrocks from sportsdirect for just under €80 including delivery with the 20% discount code IRE20. And I think there may be some trail shoes in Tkmaxx too. Happy shopping!

sconhome

You need to think of the shoe ramp in terms of it being a bump stop, limiting the range of the movement in the heel - stops the calf etc being over stretched. On the downhills though the high ramp is going to pitch you forwards further as you try to keep the heel clear off the ground.

A nice balance is in the 3-6mm range and a shoe with rockplate and or cushioning without being so high as to be unstable is ideal.

The inov8 for example are broad and relatively flat (think snowshoes) whereas a lot of the runners made into trail shoes are higher off the ground with a narrower platform = less lateral stability (think skates)

The more rigid the shoe the more likely it will flip you off an obstacle and wrench an ankle / knee etc.

b.harte

PaulieC wrote: »

Not necessarily looking for cheap, but it does help. I was looking at the Faas 300 TR, but for around the same price (49.99 STG) I could get a pair of Salomon Fellraisers, Sense Mantra or for a few quid more a pair of inov8. I reckon that they would be better with a more solid track record in the trailrunning business than Puma.

Ah here, have you been rummaging in my kitchen?
I have all of the above mentioned shoes - not the puma....:eek:
[URL="[img]http://i.imgur.com/tTE0NQ6l.jpg[/img]"][/URL]
All are very good, and to be fair there isn't much between them at a practical level.
The best all rounder is the Mantra @ 6mm ($$$) or the Sense @ 4mm ($$$$$) but as a full on trail shoe both the trailroc and fellraiser are marginally better.
The Trailroc is great on loose stone and even wet rock but lacks grip on really muddy stuff and holds water like a welly.
The fellraiser is great on everything except slabs of wet rock, but the spacing between the lugs sort of makes up for it by acting like a ridge stop on rough rocks, so it's manageable.
Having ran various distances in all I am leaning towards Salomon for sheer comfort and the build quality is good.
But, the trailroc is still a fantastic choice.
There are negatives to all, the toe guard on the trailroc is too shallow, gorse prickles get in there. The material on the area where the toe box crease forms wears early on the Mantra (but not on the thinner / lighter Sense), this allows grit in.
The insole in the fellraiser is rubbish and falls apart after getting wet, I just put in a spare inov8 pair I had.
The fit is a little looser in the trailroc, but the salomon system grips like a vice.
A tough choice.
I'm due some upgrades soon and will most likely stick with Salomon for the time being, have you considered the Sense-pro?
It's somewhere between the Mantra and the lightweight S-labs, same grip pattern (road to trail) but a more flexible construction.

Bertie

PaulieC

Nice one Bertie, very informative, thanks for taking the time. Pay day tomorrow, so I'll pick one then 😃.

You in Donadea this year ?

PaulieC

Btw, how do the salomons fit ?

PaulieC

Went for the Fellraisers in the end, seemed like a good combination of comfort and grip.

DubOnHoliday

PaulieC wrote: »

Went for the Fellraisers in the end, seemed like a good combination of comfort and grip.

How much did they set you back? Did you buy in store/ online?

PaulieC

DubOnHoliday wrote: »

How much did they set you back? Did you buy in store/ online?

EUR 75 from sportsshoes.com. The weak Euro is not the online shopper's friend.

b.harte

Sorry for late reply, I see you already purchased.
Fit in Salomon is same as Adidas a bit narrow so size up.
I am 11 in Inov8 road-X, 11.5 in Trailroc.
Odd but I'm 11.5 in Mantra but 12 in Fellraiser & S-lab not sure what is going on I think the Mantra run a bit bigger than other salomon.
I am also and 11 in Nike but a 12 in AAdidas if that makes it any less clear....:D

Yes, I'm in Donadea, see you next weekend?

That price isn't bad, I paid 73 in August.

PaulieC

Not running, but will cheer you on ;-)