Do I have to give spare keys back early?

ibarelycare

I moved into my apartment in April 2012 and it went into receivership in October 2013 and has since been sold. There was never any lease/contract. I received notice of the sale a few weeks ago and was given my 56 day's notice to leave (16th March).

That's all fine, as I was expecting it. Things aren't completely straightforward though. I was living with my friend and she got sick in September last year and had to move home to her parents' as she has been undergoing chemo. When we found out about that, we rang the receiver and told them the situation. They said that since the property would likely be sold very soon, that I could stay there on my own and just pay rent for my own room.

A couple of weeks ago a friend came to stay with me while he's in between places and obviously he has my previous housemate's set of keys (one key for the gates/complex and then a key for the actual apartment). The estate agent phoned last week and said a valuer was coming this week and would need to get into the apartment and would I be there. I said I would be in work and that I didn't have any spare keys because a guest was staying with me at the moment, but told him I worked in the city centre and would someone be able to arrange to pick the keys up off me and get copies/drop them back to me. He said he'd get back to me, but wasn't happy. We have had ongoing issues with this man since day one tbh and he has been very difficult and rude. I have considered making a complaint about him to his agency but thought I'd just leave it.

The receiver phoned me today and said they needed my old housemate's keys back. I told them that I had a guest using the keys for a few weeks. The receiver asked was my guest paying rent, and I said no. He said that it wasn't acceptable for a guest to be using the spare set of keys and that these should have been given back when my housemate moved out. I said that we were never asked for the keys then, and that I didn't think it was unacceptable to have a guest stay and use the spare set of keys. He said he was pretty sure it was illegal, so I asked him to check that out for me and let me know. I also asked him could he not use the landlord's set of keys, and he said he didn't have those.

I have been trying to find out if there is anything about guests having a set of keys, and I don't think there is anything under the Part 4 Tenancy about this.

Also, do I have to agree to letting someone into the property at all? I don't want to have to do that, but if we can't reach an agreement over the keys and I'm allowed say no, then I might have to.

BTW there's no deposit involved, but the receiver confirmed by email back in October 2013 that our last month's rent is in lieu of deposit so there's no risk of them withholding the deposit. Are they allowed withhold a reference though?

Any advice?

Cuddlesworth

You don't see the problem with negotiating half rent on a apartment because a tenant left and then moving in another person?

ibarelycare

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

You don't see the problem with negotiating half rent on a apartment because a tenant left and then moving in another person?

I didn't "move in" another person. I have a guest staying with me for a few weeks, he's not paying rent. He doesn't even have a bed, he's sleeping on the couch.

The_Morrigan

Guests are not really entitled to the set of keys from a previous tenant - guests stay for a day or two, not weeks and are usually tagging along behind the person they are staying with - ie if you leave the premises, they leave with you.
Essentially you have moved someone in 'for a few weeks' as they are coming and going as they please I suspect as they have a set of keys. The RTA is very clear:

.......not assign or sub-let the tenancy without the written consent of the landlord (which consent the landlord may, in his or her discretion, withhold).........

notify in writing the landlord of the identity of each person (other than a multiple tenant) who, for the time being, resides ordinarily in the dwelling.

Return the keys to the receiver and if you want a spare set, get some cut yourself.

foggy_lad

ibarelycare wrote: »

I didn't "move in" another person. I have a guest staying with me for a few weeks, he's not paying rent. He doesn't even have a bed, he's sleeping on the couch.

You have moved someone in and given them the keys which are only for people actually living there.

On a more serious note regarding visits to the apartmant by the agent or others over the coming months, you do not have to accept any kind of viewings or disruption by valuer or others!

That call by the estate agent was most likely them trying to find out if you will be home when they enter without permission to value/inspect/assess the property. They might think they are doing you a favour by breaking in while you are at work so they can work in peace and bring people for viewings etc and not inconvenience you but it is illegal!

Eldarion

Not advocating anything at all but seriously a key cut costs < €5. Think of the headaches that could be avoided for the sake of €5 and a closed mouth.

ibarelycare

Eldarion wrote: »

Not advocating anything at all but seriously a key cut costs < €5. Think of the headaches that could be avoided for the sake of €5 and a closed mouth.

The key for the main building and gates has to he ordered through the management company. I thought it cost around €50 but I rang the locksmith today and it's actually only €20. So I'm just going to do that.

Thanks for the advice!

The_Morrigan

ibarelycare wrote: »

The key for the main building and gates has to he ordered through the management company. I thought it cost around €50 but I rang the locksmith today and it's actually only €20. So I'm just going to do that.

Thanks for the advice!

ibc if the keys have to be ordered via the management company, then don't go and do it any other way. Make sure they know how many keys are active and who has them.

ibarelycare

The_Morrigan wrote: »

ibc if the keys have to be ordered via the management company, then don't go and do it any other way. Make sure they know how many keys are active and who has them.

I am doing it that way I rang the locksmith and they're the ones who told me I had to go through the agency so I'm gonna do it that way. Thanks!

the_syco

ibarelycare wrote: »

Are they allowed withhold a reference though?

I don't think they have to give a reference.

Mrs OBumble

Guests stay for up to a week in my book. Once it goes over that, they're more than guests. Sometimes it's reasonable to give them a spare set of keys (eg if you're working during the day while they're out doing tourist things).

TBH, I can totally understand why the agent thinks you're taking the p*ss.

However I don't believe you should return the keys early: you were given the apartment including a certain set of things (fridge, washing machine, beds, two sets of keys, etc) and this entire inventory should be returned at the same time when you move out. If any item is returned earlier, I'd be wanting an updated inventory signed off.

And no, there is no requirement for them to give a reference.

ibarelycare

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Guests stay for up to a week in my book. Once it goes over that, they're more than guests. Sometimes it's reasonable to give them a spare set of keys (eg if you're working during the day while they're out doing tourist things).

TBH, I can totally understand why the agent thinks you're taking the p*ss.

However I don't believe you should return the keys early: you were given the apartment including a certain set of things (fridge, washing machine, beds, two sets of keys, etc) and this entire inventory should be returned at the same time when you move out. If any item is returned earlier, I'd be wanting an updated inventory signed off.

And no, there is no requirement for them to give a reference.

Thanks, I've decided to just get another set cut.

I have it in writing that they would give me a reference for the period in time that the apartment was in receivership and I really want to still get that, so for the sake of €25 for a set of keys, I'd rather just keep the peace.

There is no inventory list btw, we never signed one when we moved in and the landlord never provided them with one either. The receivers have said they want to come and put together a contents list but I'm not sure how they'll do this when they don't know what furniture etc was there originally...

Arbiter of Good Taste

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Guests stay for up to a week in my book. Once it goes over that, they're more than guests. Sometimes it's reasonable to give them a spare set of keys (eg if you're working during the day while they're out doing tourist things).

TBH, I can totally understand why the agent thinks you're taking the p*ss.

However I don't believe you should return the keys early: you were given the apartment including a certain set of things (fridge, washing machine, beds, two sets of keys, etc) and this entire inventory should be returned at the same time when you move out. If any item is returned earlier, I'd be wanting an updated inventory signed off.

And no, there is no requirement for them to give a reference.

Whatever about the legalities- they have been letting you stay in the apartment by yourself and only paying half rent. I would be more accommodating.

the_syco

You're renting a room or the apartment? If the apartment, screw them. If you're renting the room, be nice, as rent-a-room folk have less rights.

As for the keys, although some EA's will show the people around the place, some will open the door, and let people wander. Sh|t can go missing, so personally wouldn't allow this unless I was there, and my sh|t was locked up tight!