HTPC - pci card recommendations for Saorview/FreeSat

captain_boycott

Has anyone any recommendations for good DVB-T/T2 and/or DVD-S2 Pcis card for a HTPC solution? Either two separate cards, or a combo card, as long as they sport dual tuner capability?

I came across the BGT3602 combo online - but not cheap, and only review I could find was not complimentary Suggestions anyone?!

Gerry Wicklow

I use a TBS twin tuner card for sat and a BGT for terrestrial. The BGT was very expensive but the only T2 at the time. I found TBS excellent to deal with, 2 day delivery and prompt support if needed.

Johnboy1951

I use two twin tuner TBS cards ..... DTT & SAT ..... with tvheadend backend and Openelec/Kodi as the user interface.

captain_boycott

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

I use two twin tuner TBS cards ..... DTT & SAT ..... with tvheadend backend and Openelec/Kodi as the user interface.

any particular TBS cards you would recommend?

I was thinking of a similar setup but using windows and NextPVR rather than tvheadend. Do you stream to the Kodi front end or have you everything on the one box?

Johnboy1951

I had 6280 and 6981 ...... now have newer cards (previous HTPC passed on) 6281 & 6982.

Same functionality, just newer versions.

Original set up was a full HTPC box under the main TV feeding that TV from HDMI, with other client devices on bedroom & kitchen TVs etc.
All of the devices, including the HTPC running Openelec/Kodi.
Client devices included R-Pi and NUC.
Also all PCs, tablets etc in the house could use the system.
VLC with HTSP plugin is an easy-to-use player on a device without Kodi installed.

The change I have made now is to run the cards in a low powered (P4) server/backend box .... again with Openelec. This has 8MB graphics on board so is good for set up etc. Actually it will also display Live SD TV but breaks up on HD Live TV.

All TVs now get a client device .... new R-Pi 2 ordered for one TV so will see how that goes.

The main reason for the change is that no matter what I did about the HTPC, it still needed some cooling and it could be heard (although low).
The two dual cards do generate heat and need an airflow over them. The HTPC case did not provide it without too much noise.
Now the 'server' box can be put out of the way, have as much (and more) cooling as it needs without noise interference.

I, foolishly IMO, spent heavily on the HTPC whereas I could easily have set up separate devices for about half the price, using a discarded P4 for the backend.

Of course if you want to run Windows on the thing then your hardware requirements are likely to jump somewhat ..... no idea about that as I do not use MS software.

Hope that explains the previous and present set ups.
I like that all recordings are saved on the one device and can be viewed from any device connected to it.

The TVheadend set up takes some time .... I am still getting used to it, TBH.

The only problem I have had is with my router ..... it gets itself in a knot at times and has to be restarted.

I paid just €121.80 and €115.80 for the cards from Dabs.
They are more likely available elsewhere for much less.

captain_boycott

Excellent info...thanks

Do you get any EPG info from Saorview with this setup?

Johnboy1951

Yes I have EPG for both Saorview and for Sat channels ..... up to 14 days .... but I have never checked how well it does the 14 days ahead EPG.

EDIT:

Just checked. Kodi allows selection of 14 days EPG but when I checked the channel EPGs were only populated for 7 days.

I have no idea if they will go to 14 days when they update next or not ..... but 7 days is definitely available for all channels I have set.

captain_boycott

thanks for the info Johnboy1951. Taking encouragement from your setup, I procured a BGT3602 card (dual dvb-S2 and dual dvb-t2 tuners on one) that happened to be on adverts.

After a weekend of messing about, including almost giving up altogether halfway thru Satuday, I finally have a working setup! Tried WMP, Argus, and NextPVR before finally settling on Mediaportal. Have all the Saorview and Freeset channels i want nicely arranged into groups, EPG works perfectly for both, and have scheduled recurring recordings. All running in upstairs office, and then the front end is just a NUC connected to the TV running Kodi.

Now just need to let it run for a week or two to test reliability and the all important spouse acceptance factor! If that's successful, then i can finally get back to a single remote control in the front room and get rid of all those STBs and cables, plus not worry about series links and missed recording anymore! here's hoping!

Johnboy1951

captain_boycott wrote: »

thanks for the info Johnboy1951. Taking encouragement from your setup, I procured a BGT3602 card (dual dvb-S2 and dual dvb-t2 tuners on one) that happened to be on adverts.

After a weekend of messing about, including almost giving up altogether halfway thru Satuday, I finally have a working setup! Tried WMP, Argus, and NextPVR before finally settling on Mediaportal. Have all the Saorview and Freeset channels i want nicely arranged into groups, EPG works perfectly for both, and have scheduled recurring recordings. All running in upstairs office, and then the front end is just a NUC connected to the TV running Kodi.

Now just need to let it run for a week or two to test reliability and the all important spouse acceptance factor! If that's successful, then i can finally get back to a single remote control in the front room and get rid of all those STBs and cables, plus not worry about series links and missed recording anymore! here's hoping!

Hope it all works well for you

Gerry Wicklow

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Hope it all works well for you

+1 on that. Keep us posted. It's always useful to know how things work out.

captain_boycott

Gerry Wicklow wrote: »

+1 on that. Keep us posted. It's always useful to know how things work out.

just a quick follow-up, been running for a week now, and the system has been running great. Have had not one crash, its been 100% reliable.

Also the mediaportal recording capabilities are excellent, no need to rely on series link. Just tell it to record every episode and that's it! It scans the EPG and ensures every occurrence gets recorded. Also really like the ability to create your own channel groups, it allows very more useful customization.

Only issue i had was buffering on the HD channels - turns out that was due to the powerline adapter - I switched plugs and no buffering since. No more STBs for me - HTPC and Kodi front end is the way to go I think!

Johnboy1951

captain_boycott wrote: »

just a quick follow-up, been running for a week now, and the system has been running great. Have had not one crash, its been 100% reliable.

Also the mediaportal recording capabilities are excellent, no need to rely on series link. Just tell it to record every episode and that's it! It scans the EPG and ensures every occurrence gets recorded. Also really like the ability to create your own channel groups, it allows very more useful customization.

Only issue i had was buffering on the HD channels - turns out that was due to the powerline adapter - I switched plugs and no buffering since. No more STBs for me - HTPC and Kodi front end is the way to go I think!

Glad to see all worked out well for you

What hardware are you using for the backend ..... CPU, memory, OS etc?

captain_boycott

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Glad to see all worked out well for you

What hardware are you using for the backend ..... CPU, memory, OS etc?

Using a windows 8 machine, Q6600 cpu, 4 gb ram. Its a few years old now so might start looking for a more modern low power replacement...from what i am reading online, the backend does not need anything too powerful...might even test with an old pentium i have, just to try it out

captain_boycott

correction - my buffering was not powerline after all - rather i was connecting evertying via my Eircom F1000 router. So instead of connecting there, I plugged my PC and the clients into the ports of my ASUS wireless AP, using these ports as a switch instead, and that solved it. Something very wrong with the F1000 - best to use it as a DSL modem only, and have another switch/router downstream to handle all your LAN-side devices! The F1000 does not seem to be able to cope (and this is despite upgrading it to the latest firmware)

surpy

captain_boycott / johnboy1951 i'm thinking of going down the same route at the moment. except using xbmc as a front end
have a pc in the attic that could easily act as a tv server so am considering putting a blackgold in there

have xbmc (openelec) running on an arctic mc001 in the front room and am hoping to ditch UPC altogether and just get eircom broadband in with saorview/freesat

i was wondering could you share your experience with this type of setup (epg reliability & setup, transponder rescans, series linking, channel changes, black screens, reboots, etc)

in the past i used dvblink as a server for saorview/freesat and windows media center as the tv front end but had to give it up as the EPG was regualrly resetting itself and transponder rescans meant a manual edit of channel list, epg data etc
there was also no way to figure out whcih channel was moved without flicking through and noting which ones were gone black!

im hoping to get to a more appliance like state now if i can!

Gerry Wicklow

I use win media center as front and EPG collector which can be configured to read FreeSats or Skys data and feeds it directly into WMC. For TP changes I find this lot fairly reliable for info and KingOfSat for the techie data.
Blackgold tuners are good but pricey, I found this crowd good to deal with.

Johnboy1951

surpy wrote: »

captain_boycott / johnboy1951 i'm thinking of going down the same route at the moment. except using xbmc as a front end

xbmc is now called Kodi

have a pc in the attic that could easily act as a tv server so am considering putting a blackgold in there

Good card I reckon, but I have no personal experience using one.

I would point out that if you intend to put Openelec on the backend then get TBS cards and not Blackgold. There are images available which support TBS cards, but none to support Blackgold cards that I am aware of.
Of course you could build your own image.

have xbmc (openelec) running on an arctic mc001 in the front room and am hoping to ditch UPC altogether and just get eircom broadband in with saorview/freesat

i was wondering could you share your experience with this type of setup (epg reliability & setup, transponder rescans, series linking, channel changes, black screens, reboots, etc)

Every once in a while, when I become aware of channels changing transponder, I log into the backend PC using a browser and have a look for channels listed which I have not 'mapped' in Tvheadend. A couple of mouse clicks and all is well.

No problems with EPG
Transponders are automatically scanned in the background so new channels get listed as well as those moving transponder ... they are reasonably obvious because they are not 'mapped' to the channel list.
No problem with channel changes .... would depend on the client device I reckon, and the Pi will be a bit slower than something more powerful, but hardly noticeable.

Black screens .... never seen one

Reboots: Pi2 once in 12 days; router once in 12 days; Backend P4 never in 12 days.

in the past i used dvblink as a server for saorview/freesat and windows media center as the tv front end but had to give it up as the EPG was regualrly resetting itself and transponder rescans meant a manual edit of channel list, epg data etc

I have no experience of using Windows, so cannot comment.

there was also no way to figure out whcih channel was moved without flicking through and noting which ones were gone black!

im hoping to get to a more appliance like state now if i can!

All I can really ad to my previous post is that the backend I am using now (P4 dual core 3Ghz) is coping admirably.
It is showing some 12 days up time ..... since I last was messing with it
So it has not been off nor rebooted in that time.
It has regularly been serving two TVs with HD video/LiveTV during that period.

I have a R-Pi2 at one of the TVs as client device and that has 'locked up' once I believe, during that time. Also the router I am using for the media LAN had to be rebooted once.

So it seems the P4 is more stable than the router or the Pi

TVheadend takes care of all the tuner and EPG stuff, so I never had to go near it after the initial set up except to map a channel change.

The other night I was watching a TV channel on my PC while SWMBO was watching a different channel on a TV.
I hit 'record' on Kodi on the PC and then shut down the PC.
I went to watch the TV with SWMBO and set another channel to record while watching there.

Both client systems were shut down before the two recordings were ended ..... but as they were being recorded 'by' and 'on' the backend that was not a concern.

There were no problems with the P4 recording two channels and streaming a third channel to the R-Pi2.
The following day both the recorded programmes were available for me to watch on the PC or the TV, as the recordings were placed on the backend storage drive.

I have no experience with series recordings .... never had a need for such so never investigated.

Again TVheadend handles that and also Timeshift if enabled.
It also supports Conditional Access (CA) cards for 'softcam descrambling'.


Note: there is probably duplication in the above as I went back and added stuff ... so apologies fro that

A general IMO comment:
Because a lot of the setups for HTPC seem to have a preference for Linux these days, it is a good idea to ensure that hardware purchased has Linux drivers available and easily used ..... even if the present intention is to use Windows and not Linux.
One never knows ..... and it is good to have options.

captain_boycott

surpy wrote: »

captain_boycott / johnboy1951 i'm thinking of going down the same route at the moment. except using xbmc as a front end
have a pc in the attic that could easily act as a tv server so am considering putting a blackgold in there

have xbmc (openelec) running on an arctic mc001 in the front room and am hoping to ditch UPC altogether and just get eircom broadband in with saorview/freesat

i was wondering could you share your experience with this type of setup (epg reliability & setup, transponder rescans, series linking, channel changes, black screens, reboots, etc)

in the past i used dvblink as a server for saorview/freesat and windows media center as the tv front end but had to give it up as the EPG was regualrly resetting itself and transponder rescans meant a manual edit of channel list, epg data etc
there was also no way to figure out whcih channel was moved without flicking through and noting which ones were gone black!

im hoping to get to a more appliance like state now if i can!

My system is up and running several weeks now, so far so good, it certainly is reliable. I've not missed any recordings or had any reboots or black screens once I ironed out all the initial teething issues. I'm now at the stage where I judge this setup is stable, has passed the wife acceptance test, and that I can sell off my Freesat and Saorview setbox boxes and commit fully to a central dedicated server which has the Tuner card, and using Kodi (XBMC) running on NUC/Raspberry Pi2 boxes as the front ends. (anyone interested in a Walker 6500 Saorview recorder, please check out my adverts.ie listings!)

The set-up challenges were as follows

1) Getting the Freesat OTA EPG to properly populate and update. After a lot of google searches i finally found the answer - the EPG is actually captured by a radio channel called "Freesat info". Just configure to grab that & the full 7 day EPG is downloaded rather than just now and next.


2) Network streaming - one of the advantages of a centralised HTPC server config is that you can locate the server out of the way and near the Satellite dish and aerial feeds, hence don't need to be concerned with coax feeds around the house. But it does mean you need good network coverage around the house to permit 1080p streams and avoid buffering. Initially I used combination of wireless and powerline devices, but as TP-Link powerline units are now on sale in argos for only E25 per pair, I now have gone powerline everywhere.

If you go the windows/Mediaportal route, you just need this plugin to act as gateway to your front end devices.

As a test, I simultaneously recorded all the Saorview channels and 4 BBC channels, not sure how that is even possible as the card is supposed to be just dual S2/T2. Could have tried a few more recordings but stopped in case the card melted!

captain_boycott

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

So it seems the P4 is more stable than the router or the Pi

Johnboy1951 what model router are you using?

Alun

captain_boycott wrote: »

As a test, I simultaneously recorded all the Saorview channels and 4 BBC channels, not sure how that is even possible as the card is supposed to be just dual S2/T2. Could have tried a few more recordings but stopped in case the card melted!

Mediaportal TV server can record multiple programs from the same DVB-T mux or the same DVB-S(2) transponder. All the Saorview channels are on 2 muxes, and many of the BBC channels share the same transponder too.

Johnboy1951

captain_boycott wrote: »

Johnboy1951 what model router are you using?

Cisco E1000 V2 with DDWRT installed.

I had changed it to DDWRT because of the multicasting features which I wanted to play with some time ago.