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Landlord issue

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  • 03-02-2015 11:46am
    #1
    foleypio
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 138 ✭✭


    Hello Guys,

    Long story short but basically I've been renting a 2 bed apartment for the last 18 months with my partner. We're good tenants, keep the place in good condition(was in a bad state when we first moved in), always pay our rent on time & only ask him to replace or fix something if its essential. No problems with noise or anything either.

    When we first moved in, there was no mention of a lease, PRTB registration or inventory. We just started paying money into his account every month through standing order.

    Recently I've been speaking to my accountant & he informed me that I would be entitled to close to 200 euro in rental expenses for tax purposes. Upon hearing this I contacted the landlord looking for ppsn no. & his address as these are required by my accountant to claim. I've been unable to get through to him & he hasnt responded to my text messages.

    I'm assuming obviously he isnt registered for tax in relation to this dwelling. What is the best way to approach this in your opinions


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    #2
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users Posts: 28,690 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    I think your accountant is wrong.. there is a rental tax credit alright but you have to have been renting from 2010 (I think it was) and they've been reducing it year on year as they are phasing it out completely.

    As a result I don't think you can apply for it at this point anyway even if you did get his details.


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    #3
    Eldarion
    Registered Users Posts: 484 ✭✭Eldarion


    Sounds like you really need to reassess your choice of accountant...

    You're also in for a world of fun if you find out the Landlord is living abroad and you should've been retaining 20% of the rent and sending it to revenue this whole time.


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    #4
    foleypio
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 138 ✭✭foleypio


    Eldarion wrote: »
    Sounds like you really need to reassess your choice of accountant...

    You're also in for a world of fun if you find out the Landlord is living abroad and you should've been retaining 20% of the rent and sending it to revenue this whole time.

    I'm well aware of the implications of a landlord living abroad. Where did I mention in my post that he was??? Obviously he's not otherwise I would be having an entirely different conversation with my accountant.


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    #5
    Eldarion
    Registered Users Posts: 484 ✭✭Eldarion


    foleypio wrote: »
    I'm well aware of the implications of a landlord living abroad. Where did I mention in my post that he was??? Obviously he's not otherwise I would be having an entirely different conversation with my accountant.

    Well you text him asking for his address. How do you know for sure?


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    #6
    foleypio
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 138 ✭✭foleypio


    Eldarion wrote: »
    Well you text him asking for his address. How do you know for sure?

    Because I've met him multiple over the last few months, had numerous conversations about the general area of where he lives, general things. That good enough for you?


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    #7
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,698 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    _Kaiser_ wrote: »
    I think your accountant is wrong.. there is a rental tax credit alright but you have to have been renting from 2010 (I think it was) and they've been reducing it year on year as they are phasing it out completely.

    As a result I don't think you can apply for it at this point anyway even if you did get his details.

    Ahh, could that be different if the OP is self employed? Or if they relocated here for work?

    There are more scenarios at work than just the rent tax credit.


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    #8
    foleypio
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 138 ✭✭foleypio


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    Ahh, could that be different if the OP is self employed? Or if they relocated here for work?

    There are more scenarios at work than just the rent tax credit.


    Yes, I am self employed & I have lived here for the last couple of years


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    #9
    The_Morrigan
    Moderators Posts: 9,368 ✭✭✭The_Morrigan


    Just so we are clear here - you are looking for advice on how to contact the landlord?


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    #10
    baldbear
    Registered Users Posts: 5,517 ✭✭✭baldbear


    A few years ago I attempted to claim rent relief and the landlord wouldn't give hiss PPS so I just applied anyway without it and told revenue my address and his name and it was sorted.


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    #11
    foleypio
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 138 ✭✭foleypio


    The_Morrigan wrote: »
    Just so we are clear here - you are looking for advice on how to contact the landlord?

    What I'm really looking for is advice on the best course of action & when I do get in touch with him what is the best thing to do if he tells me he's not registered for tax purposes.

    The way I see it there is three different scenarios,

    1) He's tax complicit, I get his details & we continue on as normal

    2) He's not tax complicit, I speak to him & inform him that if he takes the 180e or so off my next months rent, we can carry on as normal

    3) He's not tax complicit, doesnt reply to my calls or agree to a reduction in the rent for the next month. I give him my notice, work down my deposit for the last months rent & subsequently report him to revenue when I leave the property.


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    #12
    The_Morrigan
    Moderators Posts: 9,368 ✭✭✭The_Morrigan


    foleypio wrote: »
    What I'm really looking for is advice on the best course of action & when I do get in touch with him what is the best thing to do if he tells me he's not registered for tax purposes.

    The way I see it there is three different scenarios,

    1) He's tax complicit, I get his details & we continue on as normal

    2) He's not tax complicit, I speak to him & inform him that if he takes the 180e or so off my next months rent, we can carry on as normal

    3) He's not tax complicit, doesnt reply to my calls or agree to a reduction in the rent for the next month. I give him my notice, work down my deposit for the last months rent & subsequently report him to revenue when I leave the property.

    Mod Note:

    2 & 3 you may not discuss here nor ask advice on.

    This is a general warning to all - any discussion of aiding tax fraud (no 2) or breaching the RTA (using the deposit for the last months rent) will result in sanctions.


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    #13
    ForEffsSake
    Registered Users Posts: 63 ✭✭ForEffsSake


    Whether you contact the landlord or not about this would really depend on why you are claiming rent relief. Also, he probably isn't forced to give you his PPS number as it's private data and as a previous poster says you don't need it on the form.

    Are you claiming rent relief because you work from home? Then it would be an allowable expense - although I don't think you would need your landlord's PPS in this scenario? In any case, you'd have to let your landlord know you're using the premises for business purposes and he may not allow it.

    Otherwise, as a private renter you've no entitlement to tax relief unless you were renting the place before December 7, 2010. And if this is what your accountant was talking about, you may need to consider a new accountant!


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    #14
    Pkiernan
    Registered Users Posts: 4,315 ✭✭✭Pkiernan


    foleypio wrote: »
    ...I give him my notice, work down my deposit for the last months rent & subsequently report him to revenue when I leave the property.


    You'll give notice over €180???

    Do you live in Dublin? There'll be a long line of people wanting your apartment, and your LL will get a whole lot more rent.


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    #15
    campingcarist
    Registered Users Posts: 337 ✭✭campingcarist


    If you have never had a lease agreement which usually acts as your rent book, the the landlord must supply one.

    The landlord is also legally bound to supply his (or his agent's) address to where any legal notices can be served. These would include any Notice of Termination by you, and if you had a claim with the PRTB, any notices they would send to the landlord. However, if he had registered the tenancy with them, they should have his address


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    #16
    foleypio
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 138 ✭✭foleypio


    There's people coming on this thread commenting on different matters that they don't have a clue about. Making ridiculous assumptions as well.

    I'm looking for advice from people who have taken the time to read the thread properly, have had previous experience of this type of situation & have a good idea of what their talking about.

    Otherwise, dont bother posting.


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    #17
    The_Morrigan
    Moderators Posts: 9,368 ✭✭✭The_Morrigan


    foleypio wrote: »
    There's people coming on this thread commenting on different matters that they don't have a clue about. Making ridiculous assumptions as well.

    I'm looking for advice from people who have taken the time to read the thread properly, have had previous experience of this type of situation & have a good idea of what their talking about.

    Otherwise, dont bother posting.

    Please don't use that tone in here. This is a public forum and anyone may post unless they receive instruction to the contrary from a mod, Cmod or Admin.


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    #18
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,698 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    OP, ignore the people talking about rent-relief, most PAYE workers don't know much about how things can be different if you're self-employed. (And if any PAYE workers read this and are jealous - don't. You get a PAYE tax-credit which self-employed people don't, and they take a lot more risks than you do.)

    Seems to me that it's a trade off that only you can make, and you've got a good grip on the options. Just be aware that your option 2 might be seen as making you a party to revenue fraud, which is not a good place to go.

    Another option is to claim it anyway (assuming that your accountant will do this - some won't), and if the LL is not declaring the income then the LL could get into trouble with Revenue. S/he may get angry with you (stop doing maintenance, start being a pain), and/or increase the rent.

    Or you could just choose not to claim it, and tell your accountant that you don't want to, safe in the knowledge that overall you're not a lot worse off.

    E200pm (*) is quite a big saving. And the current arrangement (no paperwork) does leave you somewhat vulnerable to being asked to leave at short notice, though this is mediated a bit by having the bank statements. Also, you have a risk of not being able to contact the landlord if urgent repairs need to be done, if he's dodging your calls. Also, there can be a bit of a grey area around people who work from home, and whether it's a planning issue or not. Most people assume it's not, provided you don't have customers coming there or deliveries arriving regularly.

    On the other hand, you may not be able to find another place for the same amount that you're paying now, or which suits you as well. And moving always costs, eg if you have to pay double-rent during the overlap, or pay someone to move your stuff - or even just your time in changing utility bills and re-directing mail.

    You are legally entitled to your LL's name and PPS number, and an address that mail for them can be sent to. But just because you're entitled doesn't mean you'll necessarily get it. You cannot force them to answer your calls or texts. Though you could try phoning from another number (eg a friends phone) and see if they're more likely to answer that.



    (*) We are talking per month here? if it's per year, then just forget it. Moving will cost you far more than you'll save.


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    #19
    foleypio
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 138 ✭✭foleypio


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    OP, ignore the people talking about rent-relief, most PAYE workers don't know much about how things can be different if you're self-employed. (And if any PAYE workers read this and are jealous - don't. You get a PAYE tax-credit which self-employed people don't, and they take a lot more risks than you do.)

    Seems to me that it's a trade off that only you can make, and you've got a good grip on the options. Just be aware that your option 2 might be seen as making you a party to revenue fraud, which is not a good place to go.

    Another option is to claim it anyway (assuming that your accountant will do this - some won't), and if the LL is not declaring the income then the LL could get into trouble with Revenue. S/he may get angry with you (stop doing maintenance, start being a pain), and/or increase the rent.

    Or you could just choose not to claim it, and tell your accountant that you don't want to, safe in the knowledge that overall you're not a lot worse off.

    E200pm (*) is quite a big saving. And the current arrangement (no paperwork) does leave you somewhat vulnerable to being asked to leave at short notice, though this is mediated a bit by having the bank statements. Also, you have a risk of not being able to contact the landlord if urgent repairs need to be done, if he's dodging your calls. Also, there can be a bit of a grey area around people who work from home, and whether it's a planning issue or not. Most people assume it's not, provided you don't have customers coming there or deliveries arriving regularly.

    On the other hand, you may not be able to find another place for the same amount that you're paying now, or which suits you as well. And moving always costs, eg if you have to pay double-rent during the overlap, or pay someone to move your stuff - or even just your time in changing utility bills and re-directing mail.

    You are legally entitled to your LL's name and PPS number, and an address that mail for them can be sent to. But just because you're entitled doesn't mean you'll necessarily get it. You cannot force them to answer your calls or texts. Though you could try phoning from another number (eg a friends phone) and see if they're more likely to answer that.



    (*) We are talking per month here? if it's per year, then just forget it. Moving will cost you far more than you'll save.

    Thanks for you're reply

    First of all, I dont work from home so that is not an issue.

    Secondly, the apartment is not in Dublin & I wouldnt have too much of an issue moving to another one next month if needs be. We are currently paying a little bit under the market rent but I wouldnt mind paying full market rent if it meant I was able to claim back expenses & have proper agreements in place.

    Thirdly, I'm a landlord myself of another apartment & do things the correct way, registered for tax/fixed lease/PRTB registration /inventory. On top of this I help my tenants with any problems they have. I see the value in having a good relationship with my tenants so it pisses me off a bit to see a landlord like this giving the rest of us a bad name.

    And finally, I've been speaking to my accountant again & since I've found out the landlords address through other means now, we can go ahead now & claim without his PPS no.

    I hope revenue do find out & come down on him like a tonne of bricks. I've no time for cowboy landlords like this who give the rest of us a bad name & result in higher taxes for all


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    #20
    ForEffsSake
    Registered Users Posts: 63 ✭✭ForEffsSake


    At the risk of incurring abuse and being told I haven't a clue, I don't see how you're entitled to claim rent relief if you're not using the apartment as your place of work?
    Surely in this case it doesn't matter if you're self-employed or PAYE - you'd be treated the same. Which is that you can't claim rent relief if your rental started after December 7th 2010. The government scrapped this relief then and is phasing it out to end in 2017.

    But then I'm not an accountant....


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    #21
    foleypio
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 138 ✭✭foleypio


    ForEffsSake wrote: »
    At the risk of incurring abuse and being told I haven't a clue, I don't see how you're entitled to claim rent relief if you're not using the apartment as your place of work?
    Surely in this case it doesn't matter if you're self-employed or PAYE - you'd be treated the same. Which is that you can't claim rent relief if your rental started after December 7th 2010. The government scrapped this relief then and is phasing it out to end in 2017.

    But then I'm not an accountant....

    You certainly aren't


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    #22
    ForEffsSake
    Registered Users Posts: 63 ✭✭ForEffsSake


    foleypio wrote: »
    You certainly aren't

    Fair enough, off you go and claim. Come back and let us know how you get on.


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    #23
    Crumbs868
    Closed Accounts Posts: 438 ✭✭Crumbs868


    Eldarion wrote: »
    Sounds like you really need to reassess your choice of accountant...
    ForEffsSake wrote: »
    Otherwise, as a private renter you've no entitlement to tax relief unless you were renting the place before December 7, 2010. And if this is what your accountant was talking about, you may need to consider a new accountant!
    _Kaiser_ wrote: »
    I think your accountant is wrong.. there is a rental tax credit alright but you have to have been renting from 2010 (I think it was) and they've been reducing it year on year as they are phasing it out completely.

    As a result I don't think you can apply for it at this point anyway even if you did get his details.

    Are ye sure on that? I read the guidance on the revenue site different, ie once you were renting before 2010 you can continue to claim (yes it is being phased out), no requirement to be in the same property since 2010

    http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/it/credits/rent-credit.html

    Who can Claim?

    An individual, paying for private rented accommodation used as a sole or main residence. This includes rent paid for flats, apartments or houses. The tax credit for the years 2011 onwards applies to individuals who were renting a property on 7 December 2010.


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    #24
    conorhal
    Registered Users Posts: 6,983 ✭✭✭conorhal


    I know the PTRB has a list of registered properties, is it possible to find the details of who the landlord is and their contact details from the site? I'm sure my tennency was registered several years ago but I can't seem to find it searching the list of registered properties and there doesn't seem to be a list of the owners details for properties that are registered. Is the site a mess or am I just looking in the wrong place?


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    #25
    Grolschevik
    Registered Users Posts: 3,472 ✭✭✭Grolschevik


    If you're not working from home/maintaining a home office, then a proportion of rent is not an allowable expense for tax purposes.


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    #26
    ForEffsSake
    Registered Users Posts: 63 ✭✭ForEffsSake


    Crumbs868 wrote: »
    Are ye sure on that? I read the guidance on the revenue site different, ie once you were renting before 2010 you can continue to claim (yes it is being phased out), no requirement to be in the same property since 2010

    I presumed it was a first claim and took it from the first post that the OP was only renting for the last 18 months. If he/she has been renting (any property) for the last 4+ years then yes he/she should be able to claim and backdate.


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    #27
    Crumbs868
    Closed Accounts Posts: 438 ✭✭Crumbs868


    ForEffsSake wrote: »
    I presumed it was a first claim and took it from the first post that the OP was only renting for the last 18 months. If he/she has been renting (any property) for the last 4+ years then yes he/she should be able to claim and backdate.

    So essentially hold fire on finding a new accountant as you originally requested until you (random internet poster who makes assumptions based on ltd information) gets all the facts? :rolleyes:


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    #28
    Masala
    Registered Users Posts: 3,462 ✭✭✭Masala


    foleypio wrote: »
    There's people coming on this thread commenting on different matters that they don't have a clue about. Making ridiculous assumptions as well.

    I'm looking for advice from people who have taken the time to read the thread properly, have had previous experience of this type of situation & have a good idea of what their talking about.

    Otherwise, dont bother posting.

    Jeez.... what an attitude. Looking for free advice and then abusing those who try and help you.

    Why don't you go to your Accountant friend and get him to advise you....and pay for it like everyone else.

    A bit of gratitude to those who are taking time out to post woundn't hurt.


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    #29
    ForEffsSake
    Registered Users Posts: 63 ✭✭ForEffsSake


    Crumbs868 wrote: »
    So essentially hold fire on finding a new accountant as you originally requested until you (random internet poster who makes assumptions based on ltd information) gets all the facts? :rolleyes:
    Well he also said he had lived here 'for the last couple of years', which I took to mean two but is open to interpretation I suppose. I didn't 'request' he change his accountant, just mentioned it's something he might consider in the light of the advice given and the facts supplied by the OP.
    Anyway it's all moot as he's applying anyway on the advice of said accountant.


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