Trailer towing capacities yet again!

the al kid

Hi all,
just a quick question in relation to towing capacity.My car has a braked towing capacity of 2200 kg .The trailer weighs 1210 kgs but is rated to carry 3500kgs.Am i legal pulling 990 kgs of cattle or am i illegal pulling that highly rated of a trailer.Appreciate most of you boys arnt RSA,Gardai etc but would like to hear other peoples experiences.

Thanks in advance Al

paulmclaughlin

If you only have a B category licence, then no.
If you have a B+E category, then yes.

Proof from the RSA:
http://www.rsa.ie/Documents/Learner%20Drivers/Third%20Directive/Link%208.pdf

Aperson holding a car licence, category B, can draw a small trailer provided that the trailer has a design gross vehicle weight (DGVW) no greater than 750 kg, and in some cases a heavier trailer, provided the car and trailer combined is not heavier than 3,500kg DGVW.

DGVW means thedesigned gross weight which the trailer is designed by the manufacturer not to exceed, including the load on it. If you exceed this, you will be required to get a category BE driving licence.

A driver with a car and trailer licence, category BE can draw a trailer where the MAM of the vehicle and trailer combination is greater than 3500kg but less than 7000kg.

A car with a towing capacity of 2000kg can draw a trailer with a plated MAM of 3500kg PROVIDED the combination of the weight of the trailer and any load does not exceed the towing capacity of the car e.g. 2,000kg.

djmc

No if the design weight trailer was rated to carry was 1200 kg and was braked you could get away with it
What weight car is rated to tow + what weight trailer is rated to carry added together must be under 3500kg if trailer has brake's

If no brakes on trailer then 750 kg is max load.

paulmclaughlin

djmc wrote: »

No if the design weight trailer was rated to carry was 1200 kg and was braked you could get away with it
What weight car is rated to tow + what weight trailer is rated to carry added together must be under 3500kg if trailer has brake's

If no brakes on trailer then 750 kg is max load.

I really don't know where you're getting your information, perhaps you should back up your claims with a link.

Design Gross Vehicle Weight, or Maximum Allowable Mass as it is now known, is the curb weight of the trailer and the maximum load carriable added together.

So if a trailer has a DGVW of 3500kg and weighs 1200kg, it can carry a load of 2300kg.

If a car is rated to tow 2200kg, then the trailer weight and the load weight added together must not exceed 2200kg.

Any trailer with a DGVW (not "max load") over 750kg must have brakes.

_Brian

djmc wrote: »

No if the design weight trailer was rated to carry was 1200 kg and was braked you could get away with it
What weight car is rated to tow + what weight trailer is rated to carry added together must be under 3500kg if trailer has brake's

If no brakes on trailer then 750 kg is max load.

The design gross vehicle train must not exceed 3500kg on a regular B licence. Except in one odd instance where the towing vehicle itself has for example a gross vehicle weight of 3500kg, you can still tow a trailer with a gross permissible weight of 750kg.


So OP needs to understand what the DGVW is of their car and it's permissible designed towing capacity.
Subtract the towing vehicle DGVW from 3500kg and you will have the Design gross trailer weight your licence will allow. This cannot exceed the designed towing capacity of the car.

Example :
If your car has a DGVW of 2000kg
This allows you to tow a trailer where the trailer and load weight designed weight is not exceeding 1500kg, note it's the designed combined weight of trailer and load and not the actual combined weight.
Iin this example the designed towing capacity of the car cannot be less than 1500kg.

paulmclaughlin

Did either of you read the article in my link?

A car with a towing capacity of 2000kg can draw a trailer with a plated MAM of 3500kg PROVIDED the combination of the weight of the trailer and any load does not exceed the towing capacity of the car e.g. 2,000kg.

So if the OP has a B+E category on their licence they CAN tow the 2,200kg their car has a capacity of. In this case, the DGVW of the trailer does not matter.

And this is unbelievably wrong:

_Brian wrote: »

The design gross vehicle train must not exceed 3500kg on a regular B licence. Except in one odd instance where the towing vehicle itself has for example a gross vehicle weight of 3500kg, you can still tow a trailer with a gross permissible weight of 750kg.

_Brian

paulmclaughlin wrote: »

Did either of you read the article in my link?



So if the OP has a B+E category on their licence they CAN tow the 2,200kg their car has a capacity of. In this case, the DGVW of the trailer does not matter.

And this is unbelievably wrong:

I'm on the phone but I'll throw up a link later.

_Brian

@paulmclaughlin

I think if you look at this RSA information on Licence technical requirments for B licence

Here are two specific paragraphs I was eluding to in my post:

O1 Trailers have a DGVW not exceeding 0.75 tonnes.
O2 Trailers have a DGVW exceeding 0.75 tonnes and not exceeding 3.5 tonnes.

If you have an ordinary Category B licence, you may:

->Tow a trailer of up to 0.75 tonnes DGVW, with a vehicle with a DGVW not exceeding 3.5 tonnes and seating for up to 8 passengers (apart from the driver).
->Tow a trailer over 0.75 tonnes DGVW, with a vehicle with a DGVW not exceeding 3.5 tonnes provided the combination weight does not exceed 3.5 tonnes.

If you have an ordinary Category B licence, you may:

->Tow an O2 trailer, provided that the total design gross vehicle weight of the combination does not exceed a total of 3.5 tonnes..

So the first point specifically says that with a regular B licence you can tow a trailer up to 750kg while driving a vehicle which has a DGVW of up to 3500kg's, so in this one instance with my B licence I could drive a vehicle with a DGVW of 3500kg AND tow a trailer with a DGVW of 750kg's, this would allow me to legally drive a combination of 3500+750 = 4250kg's

The second point says that if you are towing a trailer which exceeds a trailer DGVW of 750kg's then the combination of the two DGVW's of the trailer + car cannot exceed 3500kg's combined, so trailer DGVW + car DGVW must be no more than 3500kg's

I think you'll find my point was completely right rather than "unbelievably wrong"

I'm not familliar with the details of the B+E as I only have B so this was my only interest.

paulmclaughlin

_Brian wrote: »

I'm on the phone but I'll throw up a link later.

I apologise, I completely missed the word 'train' in your post, you are right.

_Brian

paulmclaughlin wrote: »

I apologise, I completely missed the word 'train' in your post, you are right.

In fairness paul its horribly worded..
I keep a print out with me when I have the caravan out, most guards are just as confused as the rest of us, when you have the information with you it removes any problems at the roadside..

C0N0R

_Brian wrote: »

In fairness paul its horribly worded..
I keep a print out with me when I have the caravan out, most guards are just as confused as the rest of us, when you have the information with you it removes any problems at the roadside..

Can you translate all that info into plain English for me please!? Say I'm driving the farm jeep a suzuki grand vitari and I have a trailer on with a few bits and pieces in it what am I legal at and illegal at? I have an ordinary license ie no trailer test done. Thanks!

djmc

paulmclaughlin wrote: »

I really don't know where you're getting your information, perhaps you should back up your claims with a link.

Design Gross Vehicle Weight, or Maximum Allowable Mass as it is now known, is the curb weight of the trailer and the maximum load carriable added together.

So if a trailer has a DGVW of 3500kg and weighs 1200kg, it can carry a load of 2300kg.

If a car is rated to tow 2200kg, then the trailer weight and the load weight added together must not exceed 2200kg.

Any trailer with a DGVW (not "max load") over 750kg must have brakes.

The second point says that if you are towing a trailer which exceeds a trailer DGVW of 750kg's then the combination of the two DGVW's of the trailer + car cannot exceed 3500kg's combined, so trailer DGVW + car DGVW must be no more than 3500kg's

That part of the above link was my point
Combined weight car rated to carry plus trailer rated must be under 3500kg

_Brian

C0N0R wrote: »

Can you translate all that info into plain English for me please!? Say I'm driving the farm jeep a suzuki grand vitari and I have a trailer on with a few bits and pieces in it what am I legal at and illegal at? I have an ordinary license ie no trailer test done. Thanks!

Hi Conor..
Starting you need to know the DGVW of your jeep, its on a plate, probably under the bonnet with colour code etc.. I'm guessing its about 2000kg for that style of jeep
So if its 2000kg, that leaves you with a limit of a trailer with a DGVW of 1500kg

Now in trailer terms your going to be limited to smallish trailers,

Check out here for some examples of weights in Ifor Williams trailers.. http://www.lamonttrailers.com/new_trailers.php

I see no twin axle cattle trailer with a DGVW less than 2000kg, so I seriously don't think ANY twin axle sized stock trailer can be towed behind a jeep on a B licence.. MAybe some company does one..

My issue with the whole thing is that there are thousands of twin axle "builders" style trailers and "two cow" style trailers in the country that have been made by lads in their sheds. Some are wonderful trailers, built well and of great materials.
But what is their DGVW ?
We have one here, bought second hand 20 years ago. I've had loads up to 2Ton in it and it pulls well and goes straight. But it has no plate and no DGVW, it was made to be strong and reliable !!
I'd say legally this whole segment of the market is a legal minefield, how can you be stopped drawing a trailer if it has no DGVW in its design, equally how could you be allowed to pull it ??
Truth is this style of trailer is probably in the 2000/2500kg DGVW region. I pull ours an odd time knowing I'm probably outside the limit of my licence. Mostly I use a single axle 5*3 trailer that I know will be ok for my licence.

My last point is that it doesnt matter if your carrying a few bits and pieces or fully loaded, its the gross weight the trailer is designed to be that counts, gross is trailer+load. If the DGVW is too big then you shouldn't be pulling it empty never mind with any load in it.

After all that I havent answered your question specifically as I can't, I don't know the DGVW of your jeep nor that of your trailer. Find those out and you'll know the answer..

djmc

I enquired before about home made trailers to a garda and to the RSA and no one
Could give me a straight answer which led me to believe that they don't know themselves.

Count Mondego

the al kid wrote: »

Hi all,
just a quick question in relation to towing capacity.My car has a braked towing capacity of 2200 kg .The trailer weighs 1210 kgs but is rated to carry 3500kgs.Am i legal pulling 990 kgs of cattle or am i illegal pulling that highly rated of a trailer.Appreciate most of you boys arnt RSA,Gardai etc but would like to hear other peoples experiences.

Thanks in advance Al

What car is that? I have a 2ltr Avensis and can only tow 1600Kg braked.

Green farmer

paulmclaughlin wrote: »

If you only have a B category licence, then no.
If you have a B+E category, then yes.

I think this is the simplist and correct answer, just make sure you have everything else correct as well such as trailer lights, trailer number plate etc.

Base price

Can anyone tell me where I can find the plate showing the towing capacity on a 01 1.7 Combo van. I looked under the bonnet and the sills on each door but cannot find anything.

paddysdream

http://www.helpfindmea.co.uk/vans/specs/vauxhall-combo-specifications-144/combo-diesel-04-1700-17cdti-16v-van-specifications-7695.aspx

Thats for the 04 onwards but should be similar.

Base price

Thanks paddysdream.
It looks like it is good for a ton with a braked trailer.
I should be ok to pull an old Ifor Williams two cow trailer with breaks.
I have to collect 9 calves on Monday morning with it. Unfortunately my Pajero is with the mechanic getting a few bits done for the DOE so I have to use the Combo.

Base price

I should have added that I have B+E and C1+E full licence.