APB Boxing

Strongbow10

David Oliver Joyce (2-0-2) lost a split decision to Russian lightweight Dmitry Polyanskiy.

Joe Ward (3-0-1) beat a seven fight unbeaten pro (6 KO's) Bulgarian light-heavy Spas Genov.

Both lads are 2 wins away from securing a place in the 2016 Olympics. They are both effectively into the quarters and need to win the quarter final and semi final in order to secure Olympic qualification aswell as a place in the APB final.

Its looking like France’s Mathieu Bauderlique (another unbeaten professional) will be Joe's opponent in the quarter final.

Strongbow10

pac_man wrote: »

How has Ward looked in this? I havent had a chance to look at the fights.

Very undercooked and under prepared for his first fight with Ivanov. Joe has a habit of thinking he can coast on his natural ability, but he was caught out.

Granted he has knuckled down for his last fights and looked pretty good. Didn't need to get out of second gear for one of them.

Massive talent is Joe.

Coupled with hard work and supreme dedication he could be a superstar, but the work rate is a worry in terms of training.

David Oliver Joyce will make a good pro, always had the style for it, extremely smooth boxer.

FTA69

Stop the lights. I went to see him there in York Hall for the World Series and he was gassed as f*ck after three rounds. Whether this is a natural stamina issue or a lack of preparation I'm unsure; physique wise he's not out of shape but he isn't exactly ripped either.

The man is immensely talented, as in ridiculously so, and I believe if he sorts the stamina he'll be one of the best fighters to ever come out of Ireland.

walshb

Maybe Ward has reached his pinnacle, and no amount of training/dedication will change that much. I always felt that he was getting overrated here in Ireland. His style is quite sloppy at times. Talented no doubt, but overrated IMO. I remember folks had him as a shoe in for a medal in London, and he didn't even qualify in the end.

FTA69

walshb wrote: »

Maybe Ward has reached his pinnacle, and no amount of training/dedication will change that much. I always felt that he was getting overrated here in Ireland. His style is quite sloppy at times. Talented no doubt, but overrated IMO. I remember folks had him as a shoe in for a medal in London, and he didn't even qualify in the end.

He can be a bit slappy too at times but that stuff can be ironed out in my opinion.

megadodge

walshb wrote: »

Maybe Ward has reached his pinnacle, and no amount of training/dedication will change that much. I always felt that he was getting overrated here in Ireland. His style is quite sloppy at times. Talented no doubt, but overrated IMO. I remember folks had him as a shoe in for a medal in London, and he didn't even qualify in the end.

Because he was the victim of a ridiculous hometown decision.

Even an American journalist there to cover others mentioned it in his report. The Irish delegation lodged a protest (even though they probably knew it was pointless) and I know Billy Walsh was furious over it - and he's a pretty even-tempered individual.

I've said it before, that if you were to get some top boxing trainer who didn't actually know who was who and got him to watch the Irish championships and pick out any outstanding talent he saw, he'd more than likely not mention Ward. But the bottom line is RESULTS, RESULTS, RESULTS!!!

World Youth champion.
World Junior champion.
European SENIOR champion at SEVENTEEN years of age.
World Senior bronze medalist - beaten by the gold medalist in a bout where you even admitted there were probably no obvious scoring punches.

He gets the job done.
At ALL levels!!

There is a lot more going on there than meets the eye in terms of timing and judgement of distance, probably the two most subtle aspects of boxing.
He is the ultimate case of 'substance over style'.

FTA69

megadodge wrote: »

Because he was the victim of a ridiculous hometown decision.

Even an American journalist there to cover others mentioned it in his report. The Irish delegation lodged a protest (even though they probably knew it was pointless) and I know Billy Walsh was furious over it - and he's a pretty even-tempered individual.

I've said it before, that if you were to get some top boxing trainer who didn't actually know who was who and got him to watch the Irish championships and pick out any outstanding talent he saw, he'd more than likely not mention Ward. But the bottom line is RESULTS, RESULTS, RESULTS!!!

World Youth champion.
World Junior champion.
European SENIOR champion at SEVENTEEN years of age.
World Senior bronze medalist - beaten by the gold medalist in a bout where you even admitted there were probably no obvious scoring punches.

He gets the job done.
At ALL levels!!

There is a lot more going on there than meets the eye in terms of timing and judgement of distance, probably the two most subtle aspects of boxing.
He is the ultimate case of 'substance over style'.

Not to mention demolishing Kenny Egan in the nationals when he was 17 odd, a man who was probably the most dominant boxer we had in the Irish amateurs. I have very high hopes for Ward if he remains on the straight and narrow.

walshb

I am still waiting for him to go to the next level. Young or not. He doesn't excite me that much. I respect his talents and his results.

megadodge

walshb wrote: »

I am still waiting for him to go to the next level. Young or not. He doesn't excite me that much. I respect his talents and his results.

Yet again you find it hard to differentiate between what you like and quality. Just because he doesn't excite you, doesn't make him "overrated".

It was the same with John Joe Nevin. On the very night that Philip Sutcliffe KO'd John Joe Joyce you were raving about him - because you liked his style - whereas I argued that John Joe Nevin was by far the best boxer I had seen in the championship. You disagreed and there was some form of an "ok we'll see who goes farther in the next international competition they compete in" type of conversation. Anyway, we know how that turned out.

You keep doing this. If you don't like their style you find it very difficult to rate them highly. How anyone could say Ward is overrated, considering all he has won at such a young age is beyond me.

Strongbow10

megadodge wrote: »

Yet again you find it hard to differentiate between what you like and quality. Just because he doesn't excite you, doesn't make him "overrated".

It was the same with John Joe Nevin. On the very night that Philip Sutcliffe KO'd John Joe Joyce you were raving about him - because you liked his style - whereas I argued that John Joe Nevin was by far the best boxer I had seen in the championship. You disagreed and there was some form of an "ok we'll see who goes farther in the next international competition they compete in" type of conversation. Anyway, we know how that turned out.

You keep doing this. If you don't like their style you find it very difficult to rate them highly. How anyone could say Ward is overrated, considering all he has won at such a young age is beyond me.

Ward has a far higher ceiling for development in terms of his talent than Nevin does aswell, whether he has the work rate to match is another story though

walshb

megadodge wrote: »

Yet again you find it hard to differentiate between what you like and quality. Just because he doesn't excite you, doesn't make him "overrated".

It was the same with John Joe Nevin. On the very night that Philip Sutcliffe KO'd John Joe Joyce you were raving about him - because you liked his style - whereas I argued that John Joe Nevin was by far the best boxer I had seen in the championship. You disagreed and there was some form of an "ok we'll see who goes farther in the next international competition they compete in" type of conversation. Anyway, we know how that turned out.

You keep doing this. If you don't like their style you find it very difficult to rate them highly. How anyone could say Ward is overrated, considering all he has won at such a young age is beyond me.

There are tons of effective fighters out there who aren't aesthetically pleasing. We can separate them. Nevin at times pleases me in the aesthetic sense. I rate him, but I always said there was something missing. I saw improvements in Nevin in the last few years, improvements I mentioned and detailed in other posts. IMO he has improved between 2008-2012. A better all round boxer.

Ward for me is effective and talented, just a tad overrated, in the sense that people are expecting this and that from him before he has delivered. His achievements are NOT overrated. He went and earned them. His expectation and what he "will" do is where I see folks getting a bit ahead of themselves.

barney4001

bad loss for joe thats his olympics gone now

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFwwtuNHIwU

Strongbow10

pac_man wrote: »

Joe Ward stopped last night. I've yet to see the fight but he looked out on his feet during this clip.

Started well by all accounts but was hurt badly a couple of times as the fight wore on

Still plenty of time to qualify in fairness, the world championships are in October and theres a further event where he will have a chance aswell

J0E_90

Strongbow10 wrote: »

Started well by all accounts but was hurt badly a couple of times as the fight wore on

Still plenty of time to qualify in fairness, the world championships are in October and theres a further event where he will have a chance aswell

Yep plenty of opportunities. If Joe is to go to the World's he'll need to qualify first through the European Championships in Bulgaria this August (as he wont be participating in the Euro Olympic Games next week). At the European Championships he'll need to be one of the Top 6 boxers (excluding those from nations that have already qualified from the Euro Games - Top 3 in Baku qualify for Worlds) to qualify for the Worlds. That shouldn't be a bother to him.

Then at the Worlds he would need to make the final to qualify for Rio. Will be very tough.

If he doesn't make the finals of the worlds he, and all other non-qualified boxers, will have an opportunity to qualify for Rio at a European qualifier next April in Turkey (not the fondest memories there for Ward). Top 3 in this tournament qualify.

If he doesn't qualify through this there is a worldwide last chance saloon qualifier in Azerbaijan next June for all non-qualified boxers. The Top 5 here will qualify for Rio. Certainly do-able.

Alternatively there is a WSB/APB hybrid qualifying event (3 slots) next May but I think we can all agree that Ward would be best suited to stick to the shorter format route.

Clear as Mud!

Strongbow10

J0E_90 wrote: »

Yep plenty of opportunities. If Joe is to go to the World's he'll need to qualify first through the European Championships in Bulgaria this August (as he wont be participating in the Euro Olympic Games next week). At the European Championships he'll need to be one of the Top 6 boxers (excluding those from nations that have already qualified from the Euro Games - Top 3 in Baku qualify for Worlds) to qualify for the Worlds. That shouldn't be a bother to him.

Then at the Worlds he would need to make the final to qualify for Rio. Will be very tough.

If he doesn't make the finals of the worlds he, and all other non-qualified boxers, will have an opportunity to qualify for Rio at a European qualifier next April in Turkey (not the fondest memories there for Ward). Top 3 in this tournament qualify.

If he doesn't qualify through this there is a worldwide last chance saloon qualifier in Azerbaijan next June for all non-qualified boxers. The Top 5 here will qualify for Rio. Certainly do-able.

Alternatively there is a WSB/APB hybrid qualifying event (3 slots) next May but I think we can all agree that Ward would be best suited to stick to the shorter format route.

Clear as Mud!

Fair play to ya, excellent synopsis there

J0E_90

Strongbow10 wrote: »

Fair play to ya, excellent synopsis there

Cheers. It is also in the best interests of Irish boxers that as many European boxers qualify for Rio via the WSB and APB (and in the World Championships) - as this will significantly thin out the competition at the European qualifier next year.

WSB places have been allocated as you all know and Ireland have Barnes and Conlan qualified Europe did ok overall with further boxers qualifying at 60, 69, 75, 81, and +91kg.

Not 100 percent on APB but, from what I can gather, Europe are dominating and probably going to take half of all the Olympic berths available, maybe more.

another bonus is the qualification of so many Russians through WSB/APB. good chance they'll have there full quota filled by the end of the year - makes the qualifiers next spring a bit easier

barney4001

THAT FRENCH GUY IS UNBEATEN IN 9 PRO FIGHTS 4 INSIDE DISTANCE LAST FIGHT WAS AN 8 ROUNDER