Should I speak up or not?

LegacyUser

Before Christmas I was approached by a family member (cousin) looking for a loan of a few thousands Euro, to fix a problem he had with his car. He told me that Christmas was a difficult time for his immediate family, he has two young children and he asked if it was ok if he held off paying me until early March. I am lucky enough that I am comfortably off, so I can live without the money until then so I agreed to do so. I have given him money before on a few occasions and he has always paid me back on time and in full.

Anyway, last week we were out to dinner. The loanee was telling all about his holiday plans for the summer, two weeks in South Africa, five star hotels etc and also about his plans to build a sauna and jacuzzi in his home, "to show off to his neighbours". When the conversation came to me, I told the group about my/our plans to go to the USA in a few months. His wife then replied saying that her work colleague knows of some really good 'cheapo' hostels which would be 'ideal' for me and my OH. She also passed comment on how my OH's shoes were from M&S, hinting that they were cheap, I suspect.

This above really got to me. I felt like telling her that I plan to use the money they will be paying me back in March to cover our hotel bill. I didn't and not doing so really annoyed me. I told my OH about this and she thinks that I have taken the remarks to heart too much. She just said that his wife is a 'bit of an idiot' and not worth getting wound up over. Is she correct or do you think that I should have spoken up or should say something about the remarks?

liz lemoncello

Does his wife know about the loan?

LegacyUser

As annoyed as you may feel OP I think it's in your best interest to say nothing, not until he's paid you back the money at least. The attitude of him and his wife would suggest they have very high notions of themselves and I'd be worried that should you fall out with them you'll never see your money again.

Is it possible they have money problems, the wife knows nothing about?
It's a huge leap going from 'Christmas is a difficult time' to planning a luxury holiday 1 month later. I very much doubt the wife would make digs about money to you if she knew her husband had borrowed money from you on multiple occasions. she sounds like a snob, and she'd hardly risk being caught out in public, it'd be utter humiliation to someone like her, she'd never risk it imho.

Something just sounds very off here and there's no way I'd stir the pot until I'd been repaid in full and there is absolutely no way I'd loan him money ever again.

jimmycrackcorm

I think M&S clothes are expensive and nothing wrong with it. I think if she wanted to hint then she'd have suggested Dunnes or Penny's

Mr. Incognito

I think you are over reacting.

LegacyUser

liz lemoncello wrote: »

Does his wife know about the loan?

Yes, she was there when I gave him the money.

R.D. aka MR.D

Saying something at the time would have created a lot of bad feeling. If you are really annoyed contact them and say that you want your money now because obviously they have enough if they are planning/booking hoildays and then never ever loan them money again.

thelad95

Does your man have any self-awareness whatsoever? If I borrowed twenty quid off someone, I wouldn't talk about my holiday plans in front of them, let alone a few thousand.

Your friends wife sounds like a bit of a wagon and she probably didn't know about the loan. I'd let it slide but maybe strongly reconsider ever lending them money again.

seventeen sheep

I think your OH is correct - no point saying anything.

The way his wife commented on the shoes wasn't necessarily a dig - M&S shoes are actually quite pricey! Are you sure it wasn't just a comment, that maybe the wife had been looking at the same shoes in the shop herself?

And she could have been trying to be genuinely helpful in recommending cheap hostels; for whatever reason, she may have believed that this was the sort of holiday you were going for. Nothing wrong with that sort of thing, whether you're wealthy or not ... I'm perpetually broke, yet if I do go on holiday, I insist on a decent hotel; conversely, I know plenty of well-off people who much prefer hostelling when they travel, for the experience. I really don't think it was necessarily a reflection of how well off she thinks you are.

As for their holiday and spending plans, he does seem to be a bit of an eejit going on about them when he knows he owes you money; on the other hand, it's not as though he was leaving you short by borrowing the money from you (and it seems he's aware of that) ... to be honest, as long as he pays it back within the agreed timeframe, I wouldn't really see a problem with what he spends his money on in the meantime.

You mention about him talking about plans for a sauna and jacuzzi "to show off to the neighbours" - which may very well have been a tongue-in-cheek comment, I'm guessing. But sure you seem just as concerned about how well off (or not) his wife perceives you to be?

There's a reason for the phrase, "Neither a borrower nor a lender be". It's fine in some cases to lend money between friends and family, but an awful lot of the time, it'll change the relationships and the balance of power and how you view each other. Chances are you probably wouldn't have given the conversation a second thought if it weren't for the outstanding loan; meanwhile your cousin is probably blissfully unaware that you are in any way offended or put out ... and probably best to leave it that way! I'd probably avoid lending money to him (or anyone else) in future though, if I were you.

LynnGrace

I would let the comments made by his wife pass. I sometimes think, if I'm getting annoyed about something someone has said, especially a personal comment, 'do I really care about this person's opinion?' If not, I ignore it.

I would say nothing and get the money back, in March, as promised, then if he asks again, I would be politely refusing any further loans.

LegacyUser

Many thanks for your replies.

seventeen sheep wrote: »

The way his wife commented on the shoes wasn't necessarily a dig - M&S shoes are actually quite pricey! Are you sure it wasn't just a comment, that maybe the wife had been looking at the same shoes in the shop herself? I'd probably avoid lending money to him (or anyone else) in future though, if I were you.

No, definitely not. She is big into her designer clothes and she mentioned that her shoes were by some famous designer, which are seriously expensive by all accounts. It was most definitely a dig at my OH.

thelad95 wrote: »

Your friends wife sounds like a bit of a wagon and she probably didn't know about the loan. I'd let it slide but maybe strongly reconsider ever lending them money again.

She did know about the loan, as I said above. She was there when I gave it to him. I think those of you who have suggested the above are correct on reflection. Get my money back in March, say nothing but politely refuse any future loans. Smarts ____ like that really annoy me though.

ABajaninCork

Hmm. I know I've come to this late, but I have to say something!

Your cousin and his wife have the flash pad, planning to install jacuzzi and steam room, planning a long-haul holiday, the wife wears (probably) Manolo's but have to borrow money from you? What's wrong with this picture?

They seem to be fur coats and no drawers if you ask me. Everything for the benefit of the neighbours, but not a pot to p1ss in! Classless and clueless to boot.

Get your money back, and don't lend these idiots another penny. They need to be shown the value of money.

Sleepless and Manic

SpeakUpOrNot wrote: »

Get my money back in March, say nothing but politely refuse any future loans. Smarts ____ like that really annoy me though.

Yes. Bizarre behaviour.

They're chancers.

I bet they're not paying you interest are they? And given they dont seem to have slowed down their spending habits it means you are basically paying the interest on their credit card bills for them.

tinkerbell

Perhaps I'm jumping the gun here OP but my first thoughts are ... You give them a loan of a few thousand and a short time later they are booking a holiday to S Africa, putting in a jacuzzi etc? That does not make sense ... Are they using your money to do the above? Have you loaned them such a large amount previously?

I can't believe they said all this in front of you after borrowing a few grand from you (and then insulted your shoes!) If it were me, I'd have said in front of everyone "well that's great that you have booked your holiday and you're upgrading your house. Since you're so flush with cash at the moment then I'm sure you will have no issue with writing me a cheque right now for the thousands that I gave you as a loan, then I can afford to buy non-M&S shoes!" or I'd have said "Jees, ye told me ye needed a loan of X thousand as an emergency. I didn't realise a holiday to S Africa or a jacuzzi were an emergency, so surely ye can pay me back now straight away?"

I know that is a being a bit blunt but I'd be pretty fckin pissed off if I were in your situation, and to insult the shoes is just the last straw tbh.

Sleepless and Manic

What kind of car is it and what was wrong with it?

A few thousand euros is more than a slight problem.

strandroad

They are a pair of classless clowns, but would they bother you if you had no money in the game? Get your money back as agreed and don't ever lend again - they seem to be hopeless at money management if they need to borrow and have luxury purchases at the same time, so you don't want to be there when the music stops. They are to be pitied to be honest... Just distance yourself!

mada82

Don't lend them money again. I generally avoid keeping company with annoying people.

ABajaninCork

Sleepless and Manic wrote: »

What kind of car is it and what was wrong with it?

A few thousand euros is more than a slight problem.

Probably bugger all wrong with the motor, and it was needed to pay for the wife's designer threads and her rhythm and blues...

Duckjob

SpeakUpOrNot wrote: »

Before Christmas I was approached by a family member (cousin) looking for a loan of a few thousands Euro, to fix a problem he had with his car. He told me that Christmas was a difficult time for his immediate family, he has two young children and he asked if it was ok if he held off paying me until early March. I am lucky enough that I am comfortably off, so I can live without the money until then so I agreed to do so. I have given him money before on a few occasions and he has always paid me back on time and in full.

Anyway, last week we were out to dinner. The loanee was telling all about his holiday plans for the summer, two weeks in South Africa, five star hotels etc and also about his plans to build a sauna and jacuzzi in his home, "to show off to his neighbours". When the conversation came to me, I told the group about my/our plans to go to the USA in a few months. His wife then replied saying that her work colleague knows of some really good 'cheapo' hostels which would be 'ideal' for me and my OH. She also passed comment on how my OH's shoes were from M&S, hinting that they were cheap, I suspect.

This above really got to me. I felt like telling her that I plan to use the money they will be paying me back in March to cover our hotel bill. I didn't and not doing so really annoyed me. I told my OH about this and she thinks that I have taken the remarks to heart too much. She just said that his wife is a 'bit of an idiot' and not worth getting wound up over. Is she correct or do you think that I should have spoken up or should say something about the remarks?

They sound very money/image obsessed. I wonder if their egos were severely bruised by having to ask for your help and all the sh*te talk about luxury holidays and Jacuzzis and putting you down is a bizarre attempt at compensating for this bruising and bolstering up their self-perception as a "power couple".

In any case I'd agree with other posters that you should say nothing, get your money back and not loan to them again. From what you've described they sound like immature idiots and could well end up prioritising impressing the neighbours over paying back money that isn't theirs.

ABajaninCork

Duckjob wrote: »

They sound very money/image obsessed. I wonder if their egos were severely bruised by having to ask for your help and all the sh*te talk about luxury holidays and Jacuzzis and putting you down is a bizarre attempt at compensating for this bruising and bolstering up their self-perception as a "power couple".

In any case I'd agree with other posters that you should say nothing, get your money back and not loan to them again. From what you've described they sound like immature idiots and could well end up prioritising impressing the neighbours over paying back money that isn't theirs.

I think the above bolded part is a very good point. Some people are insecure and like to be surrounded by 'things' especially designer goods. It might make them feel better about themselves or might validate them as having 'arrived' if they have obvious symbols of 'wealth'. Having the very best of stuff might make them feel more important.

Thinking back, I knew a fair few people like this at home. One girl was one of the first 'WAGS'. Her bloke played for a leading London club. She was first the catering manager for the same club, then PA to a very well-known chef. Had a posh flat in one of the best areas of London, wardrobes full of designer gear, drove a good car, ate in the best restaurants. Guess what? The girl went bankrupt with debts of over £30k!! :eek: That was in the good old days when it was six years to come out of bankruptcy rather than the one it is now.

Hannibal Smith

No. Don't speak up. Its not to help anyone, its just to bring the wife down a leg or two and that's not good.

It was so generous of you to help your cousin out. Keep that good nature going. But I wouldn't be lending money to him again if it turns things sour.

Years ago a family member asked me for a loan. They had a young baby and he started a new job meaning he was getting paid monthly instead of weekly and his actual words were that he needed the money to put food on the table for the baby. So of course I helped out. He used it to do up their bathroom. If he said that initially I would have loaned the money anyhow, I just thought using his daughter was a bit shady.

bjork

Yes, I'd tell them the loan repayment will be paying towards your holiday. If nothing else, it might guilt them in to paying you back sooner. Jacuzzi indeed!

Dutchess

Get your money back asap and do not lend again. You already said this was not a one off. Do not let them treat you as their own personal bank. Especially not acting like that. Return tickets to South Africa for a couple and children would probably come very close to covering your loan. I would never dream of buying something like that while still owing someone money. Only thing I can imagine is that either or both of them gets a big bonus in March... Even so, they should learn to make their money last the year rather than blowing it on lavish breaks and things and then having to borrow when something unexpected pops up. And the only way they will learn that is by people refusing to lend them cash.

Miaireland

As the other advised get your money back and then don't lend them anything again. I know a couple of couples like this. One just puts everything on credit cards and loans and the other borrows money from people left right and centre, they go off on holidays and claim that their kids paid for them.

lazeedaisy

I reckon you have a good sensible wife. (I like that she likes sensible footwear! Too)

Listen to her advice, take it and leave it at that.

Don't go saying anything, just sit back and know you are better off,

More times than not, the best thing to be said is nothing.

rainbowtrout

The first thing that struck me here was not their ignorant comments but the fact that they had the brass neck to tell you that things were tight and then were bragging about their planned trip to South Africa.

I'd actually be wondering if you'll ever see this money again, or if you try to chase it up will you keep getting fobbed off with excuses or them crying the poor mouth.

Why did they say they'd pay it back in March? Are they expecting some sort of lump sum payment? Do you have some sort of arrangement in place with them to pay back the loan? Do you have anything in writing or were there witnesses?