Paid by mistake by former employer

labmonkey

Hi all - wondering if anyone has insight on this:
I left my old job in early Sept 14. I gave them my contact details but no sign of final payslip or p45 until I emailed them several times in early Nov as I was still on emergency tax with my new employer.

I was paid at the end of Sept and the end of Oct, both amounts were about the same as every other month previous (it would vary slightly with overtime, etc). I couldn't remember if I was or wasn't being paid a month in lieu (I worked there for a few years, can't remember if I was paid the month I started or if it was the next month)and when the Oct payment came thru, I assumed that was my final wages.

Then yesterday, I got a letter from the HR manager and Finance Director saying that the Oct payment was a mistake and it was supposed to be a payment to a vendor with the same surname as me. The letter says "please ensure that the funds are returned to <employers name> by no letter that Friday 30th Jan 2015. I only got the letter yesterday!

Now, I've no problem in repaying the money when I didn't earn it - I finally got my payslip and p45 in late Nov and the Sept wages should have been the last one, the Oct payment wasn't owed to me - but I can't come up with the best part of 3 grand at the drop of a hat, definitely not with one days' notice. I've emailed them to say this but not sure what sort of reply to expect.

I know in a different company I worked in before, they overpaid one of my colleagues by mistake while she was on sick leave and they didn't force her to pay it all back at once, they set up a repayment plan where she repaid a more manageable amount per week until it balanced out. Maybe that was just that employer being more reasonable than most, but I really don't know what to expect.

Sorry for the long post - TL/DR: former employer overpaid me by mistake after I'd left, are they allowed to demand I repay all the overpayment (3K) in one go with short notice?

Thanks for your help!

davo10

To be fair they are demanding back an amount you know you should not have been paid and you certainly should not have spent the money. So yes, they are entitled to demand it is paid back without delay.

The obvious question being, why did you spend the money if you knew it was sent to you in error?

Galadriel

davo10 wrote: »

To be fair they are demanding back an amount you know you should not have been paid and you certainly should not have spent the money. So yes, they are entitled to demand it is paid back without delay.

The obvious question being, why did you spend the money if you knew it was sent to you in error?

He said that he didn't realise he was paid in error until months later when he finally received his pay slip and P45.

You owe them the money but hopefully they will agree to a payment plan - it was after all their mistake.

davo10

Galadriel wrote: »

He said that he didn't realise he was paid in error until months later when he finally received his pay slip and P45.
.

Yip, I can see how anyone wouldn't notice an extra €3k in their account, especially when you don't have a lot in the bank. C'mon.

labmonkey

davo10 wrote: »

Yip, I can see how anyone wouldn't notice an extra €3k in their account, especially when you don't have a lot in the bank. C'mon.

Actually I said that I didn't know if I was working a month in lieu or not. So I didn't know if my september wages and holiday pay were to be paid in sept or october, since the amount that went into my account was about the same as I would have been expecting for that.
But thanks for your input anyway.

Galadriel

davo10 wrote: »

Yip, I can see how anyone wouldn't notice an extra €3k in their account, especially when you don't have a lot in the bank. C'mon.

That's not what the OP said so c'mon all you like.

davo10

Galadriel wrote: »

That's not what the OP said so c'mon all you like.

OP said they have requested repayment of the amount in full and he/she doesn't have €3k to pay it, so OP got overpaid 3k. I think it is hard to believe that you wouldn't notice an extra €3k in your account. So I don't think the OP should have spent it and if he/she did, I don't see why he/she is surprised that they are asking for it to be repaid in full without delay.

OP, of course you work a month en lieu, how may employers pay you monthly in advance?

Dietsquirt

Vegas

davo10

Dietsquirt wrote: »

Vegas

Black

chickenlicken2

Presuning as you mention a P45 that you were a PAYE emplyee as opposed to a contracror?
It would be unusual for an accounting system to be fully integrated to process both payroll and account so that such an error could be made. Typically payroll is processed on a separate software and bank file prepared from this rather than importing to a suppliers ledger. So this would seem to be unusual that such an error could happen.

It may be that a bank payment was processed to you in error ie selecting an incorrect payee when making an online payment. The best way to check is to look at your payslips for the year and compare to net pay received to the bank.

If money received is higher than net pay per payslips then overpayment has happened and you ought to engage with them re repayment.

Alternatively if it is a wage overpayment ie you got a months pay extra in error, then check in to whether they are requesting the gross or the net back as you would have been taxed on the income you received. Additionally you should probably look into your pay records further re the month in lieu. You would be monthly in arrears however (uncommon ) some employers may do a month on hand.

AnotherYear

Not your mistake

labmonkey

chickenlicken2 wrote: »

Presuning as you mention a P45 that you were a PAYE emplyee as opposed to a contracror?
It would be unusual for an accounting system to be fully integrated to process both payroll and account so that such an error could be made. Typically payroll is processed on a separate software and bank file prepared from this rather than importing to a suppliers ledger. So this would seem to be unusual that such an error could happen.

It may be that a bank payment was processed to you in error ie selecting an incorrect payee when making an online payment. The best way to check is to look at your payslips for the year and compare to net pay received to the bank.

If money received is higher than net pay per payslips then overpayment has happened and you ought to engage with them re repayment.

Alternatively if it is a wage overpayment ie you got a months pay extra in error, then check in to whether they are requesting the gross or the net back as you would have been taxed on the income you received. Additionally you should probably look into your pay records further re the month in lieu. You would be monthly in arrears however (uncommon ) some employers may do a month on hand.

PAYE employee, but I would have been paid expenses at times which were processed through a separate system to payroll, so that might be why they mistakenly selected me instead of the correct vendor to be paid?
I'm happy to engage with them on repayment and I have no problem with repaying money I didn't earn, I just think it's a bit much to look for that amount of money with 1 days notice after a few months lapse! Maybe I'm being stupid about it.

Thank you very much for your advice, it's much appreciated

Oink

AnotherYear wrote: »

Not your mistake

Not his money either.

I do agree though that they could at least be polite about it rather than start demanding money back immediately like he's a stealing scumbag.

seamus

chickenlicken2 wrote: »

Presuning as you mention a P45 that you were a PAYE emplyee as opposed to a contracror?
It would be unusual for an accounting system to be fully integrated to process both payroll and account so that such an error could be made. Typically payroll is processed on a separate software and bank file prepared from this rather than importing to a suppliers ledger. So this would seem to be unusual that such an error could happen.

Interesting note: in an SAP system all outgoing payees are managed as vendors in the system. They're generally separated into different classes - employees, vendors, child companies, etc - and in a properly configured system it's not possible to mistakenly pay a vendor invoice to an employee. This simplifies things because all outgoing payments are made by the same modules, you don't need to rewrite it for payroll and AP, etc.

But in an improperly configured system with a novice employee it's very easy to accidentally send vendor invoices to an employees bank account.

chickenlicken2

Ah did not know that re SAP, interesting. I am used to using bacs file direct from payroll software.

You have mentioned though about expense payments etc so it may be just human error in payment processing say an invoice to another vendor posted to your ledger then paid or perhaps your ledger paid in error. Arguably not your fault but at the same time not a good idea to burn bridges.
That's just a guess though, it could of course be an error using SAP as above. In any case you should engage with them about how/why it occurred and arrange a repayment plan if it has been the case you were paid incorrectly.

I shouldn't see any reason why they wouldn't accept a reasonable repayment plan.

cloneslad

davo10 wrote: »

OP said they have requested repayment of the amount in full and he/she doesn't have €3k to pay it, so OP got overpaid 3k. I think it is hard to believe that you wouldn't notice an extra €3k in your account. So I don't think the OP should have spent it and if he/she did, I don't see why he/she is surprised that they are asking for it to be repaid in full without delay.

OP, of course you work a month en lieu, how may employers pay you monthly in advance?

WhY do you keep saying they wouldn't notice the extra money in there? The op said they did notice it, what they didn't know was whether it was owed to them or not.

The op hasn't once asked for advice on how to not pay, just if it was possible to make a payment plan rather than lump sum payment

labmonkey

I told them I'd review my current finances (with xmas - haven't been paid since mid- Dec) and let them know over what amount of time/rate I'd be in a position to repay, hopefully they'll accept that.

I don't know whether they use SAP or not, but I do recall them being notoriously suspect when paying out for some invoices - claiming they were paid when they weren't, etc (not to me, to vendors I dealt with) so I wouldn't be altogether surprised that someone just paid the wrong person on an account.

Mr. Loverman

I wouldn't overthink this.

What you've said is reasonable. You are willing to pay the money back.

Arrange a payment schedule with them. Unless they are insane they will agree to it.

Luke92

davo10 wrote: »

OP said they have requested repayment of the amount in full and he/she doesn't have €3k to pay it, so OP got overpaid 3k. I think it is hard to believe that you wouldn't notice an extra €3k in your account. So I don't think the OP should have spent it and if he/she did, I don't see why he/she is surprised that they are asking for it to be repaid in full without delay.

OP, of course you work a month en lieu, how may employers pay you monthly in advance?

Did you even read the op? Seriously. If you have no advice don't post. He's not looking for criticism.

The Masculinist

Give them a call. Explain that you genuinely didn't realise that this amount was paid in error. If you don't have the 3k to hand, mention that you don't have this amount on hand, however you can pay X now and Y later (at whatever date). They will be happy they are getting the money back and don't need to seek legal advice. Someone in HR or payroll messed up here, they just want a speedy resolution.

The ball is in your court.

As everyone else advised, agree a reasonable payment plan with them. If you were still an employee of theirs they would have to agree to that (if it went to court for example) and hr advice would be to negotiate a plan with the employee that doesn't cause undue hardship.

If however your version of reasonable was €2 a week for the next fifteen years then they could push for something moe substantial. Demanding you pay it in full is optimistic but if you don't have it they need to negotiate with you to recoup it as quickly as is reasonable.