Anybody else getting no SFP?

cloudroost

I'm not an active contributor on this forum, but I am an active reader...

I'm just curious if I am the only one on this forum that has no SFP and won't be entitled to anything based on the new criteria ....
My situation is that I bought some land that had no entitlements and am farming it for the last 5 years - Based on the criteria for the national reserve, I won't be able to avail of this.
In hindsight, I should have bought some entitlements but I didn't in anticipation of the changes to the CAP that were coming down the line...

Nettleman

IFA screwed you, with collusion of other interests. they simply didn't fight hard enough to protect young lads and lasses in this situation.
This was a serious error on their part, and will have repercussions for their long term funding/membership IMO.
Meeting coming up in Athlone which you should attend for more info, organised by lads in same situation.
Remind your local FG Politian that theres an election coming up, and its unfair that some farmers should be government aided while others have to do without-tell them you will reflect it in your vote. word will get back-rest assured.

stanflt

did you not make an application for the last 5 years

you dont have to have entitlements to make an application

if you had of you would have recieved entitlements at a new low value that will increase over the next few years

iknow of a lot of land that in 2013 had new farmers(without entitlements on it)

cloudroost

Thanks for the reply.
I wouldn't consider myself in the 'young' category anymore, and am glad to see that there are provisions for 'young farmers' in the national reserve.
Based on what I was reading , I was beginning to think that the everybody was being catered for in the 'National reserve' - I've being trying top get information from the Dept on whether the 'Scottish Derogation' will come into play, but the answer to date has been - "we are still awaiting some clarification from the EU Commission on aspects regarding Scottish Derogation"

cloudroost

Stanflt,
I haven't applied to the National reserve in the past - I didn't meet the criteria.....

kowtow

I'm in the same position more or less - except that I did buy some entitlements (a handful) when I bought this farm but chose not to transfer / register them because of the published advice regarding the Scottish derogation (I was actively farming in 2013, with cows, herd no. etc.)

Like you I am too old by a couple of years to be a young farmer.

By and large I am inclined to let them stuff their entitlements. I couldn't bear to run a business where I was guided by subsidy in any case, and there is no reason in the dairy niche which we are entering why it should be necessary to claim entitlements.

What I do find a little odd is that I am unable to apply for grants like the farm safety scheme, even at the 40% level, because I am not claiming any support via SFP. I can't honestly see the connection between the two except to the extent that it makes life a little easier for the bureaucrats who are the principal beneficiaries of corrupt schemes like CAP.

What irritates me most is that the sole effect of these "supports" on a hard working small family farm, working very hard to produce a premium product for export, is to put the price of calving gates up by about a third.

Nettleman

cloudroost wrote: »

Thanks for the reply.
I wouldn't consider myself in the 'young' category anymore, and am glad to see that there are provisions for 'young farmers' in the national reserve.
Based on what I was reading , I was beginning to think that the everybody was being catered for in the 'National reserve' - I've being trying top get information from the Dept on whether the 'Scottish Derogation' will come into play, but the answer to date has been - "we are still awaiting some clarification from the EU Commission on aspects regarding Scottish Derogation"

for me the crux of the problem is in the title "SCOTTISH derogation" why is it that the Scots were looking out / fighting for their next generation of farmers and the Irish delegation (who were presiding over the negotiations on CAP, under the EU presidency) didn't bother their arses.

cloudroost

Kowtow,

I think you have the right idea to plough on regardless - In your case it sounds like you are full time farming, so could probably do with the income - In my case, I only have a small plot and luckily am not dependent on it .....

amacca

I'm an "old young farmer"

Not getting any entitlements - I've been farming for years so 5 year rule screws me

I have an off farm income which excludes me

I didn't have a substantial one in the past but I was excluded from applying to national reserve because I paid fair market rate to rent land off my parents

I believe the system is very unfair as in my case I was basically screwed down to timing or an inexplicable rule

Bullin....why they can't give a yes or a no on Scottish derogation much sooner is beyond me.

After all the **** I had to listen to about them supporting young farmers the only thing I have ever gotten off them is a disadvantaged area payment

It's either very haphazardly and poorly thought out in terms of being fair or very well thought out to preserve the status quo

Doesn't give me much respect for the powers that be at any rate.

rangler1

amacca wrote: »

I'm an "old young farmer"

Not getting any entitlements - I've been farming for years so 5 year rule screws me

I have an off farm income which excludes me

I didn't have a substantial one in the past but I was excluded from applying to national reserve because I paid fair market rate to rent land off my parents

I believe the system is very unfair as in my case I was basically screwed down to timing or an inexplicable rule

Bullin....why they can't give a yes or a no on Scottish derogation much sooner is beyond me.

After all the **** I had to listen to about them supporting young farmers the only thing I have ever gotten off them is a disadvantaged area payment

It's either very haphazardly and poorly thought out in terms of being fair or very well thought out to preserve the status quo

Doesn't give me much respect for the powers that be at any rate.

As late as last wenesday, we pressed coveney on cases like yours, he said that the EU will not allow payment but that the Department were trying to get allowed to pay you from the national reserve as they don't envisage all the national reserve being used.....on saying that, I wouldn't hold my breath

wool521

no entitlements here either,got herd no in 2011

Nettleman

rangler1 wrote: »

As late as last wenesday, we pressed coveney on cases like yours, he said that the EU will not allow payment but that the Department were trying to get allowed to pay you from the national reserve as they don't envisage all the national reserve being used.....on saying that, I wouldn't hold my breath

this really pisses me off( not getting at you rangler specifically) but this auld chestnut of blaming the eu doesn't cut it. That auld line is dusted down and trotted out as an excuse all too often for all sorts. The eu follow the rules set down during Ireland's presidency, so stop diflecting responsibility away to some faceless eu. Stand up and be counted for the lack of foresight at consultation and discussion stage. We feel let down by organisations involved in the new cap, so suck it up. I'm sure we all recall the news limelight taken by all those who brokered that agreement!

rangler1

Nettleman wrote: »

this really pisses me off( not getting at you rangler specifically) but this auld chestnut of blaming the eu doesn't cut it. That auld line is dusted down and trotted out as an excuse all too often for all sorts. The eu follow the rules set down during Ireland's presidency, so stop diflecting responsibility away to some faceless eu. Stand up and be counted for the lack of foresight at consultation and discussion stage. We feel let down by organisations involved in the new cap, so suck it up. I'm sure we all recall the news limelight taken by all those who brokered that agreement!

I'm telling you what happened and what he said, you see what the western farmers got thinking they could change senior public servants minds, young farmers are getting a top up, entitlements from the national reserve, higher grants......I got none of that when I started farming. I'm finishing with IFA on the 17th so I'm not taking any more s..t, If anyone asks civil questions I'll answer them if I know the answer, but there's only one person deserves my time now....me

rangler1

wool521 wrote: »

no entitlements here either,got herd no in 2011

Did you apply for them, have you got the required qualifications....if you ick the boxes now it should be easy enough.

yellow50HX

Similar boat here getting about €1000 in SFP on about 75ac. Applied to national reserve every year for the 1st 3 years I was farming started in 06, but was knocked back each time. In a similar boat now with new conditions.

Under 40 so still a "young farmer" but my full time job takes me just over the threshold. Thing is as I have been using my job to subsidise the farm over the last few years so my actual income is below the threshold ( farm will need to make slight profit this year for tax reasons).

This is not sustainable long term as I want the farm to pay its way. I would love to be in a position to pack in the job and farm full time but in order to make the farm more profitable and maybe change back to dairy I would need to be here almost full time and that's not doable at present.

I was leasing my entitlements from my folks but they gifted them to me last year. As they were full time dairy during the reference years they were not entitled to more and they were also turned down when applying to the reserve.

Had looked at buying some on the market but they seemed very expensive. Like many I was under the impression that those of us on low SPF were going see ours raised closer to the average.

amacca

Well all I can really do is say thanks Rangler

Anything is better than nothing which is what I've more or less been in receipt of so far

Strangely, getting nothing on its own wouldn't really bother me - its the rectifiable (imo) unfairness of it that pisses me off and the seeming unwillingness of those in control to play fair and treat all citizens as equals

For instance I'd take the off farm income exclusion in my stride if there weren't plenty around me in the system courtesy of getting in at the right time with much more substantial off farm incomes than me

That's just one inconsistency I can see - there are lots of others

amacca

Anyway, there's a meeting for those affected in athlone the evening of Friday 6th feb.

Hodson bay hotel: at 8 I think

Theres Facebook page also

The more that show up the higher the likelihood of something actually happening I presume.

rangler1

amacca wrote: »

Anyway, there's a meeting for those affected in athlone the evening of Friday 6th feb.

Hodson bay hotel: at 8 I think

Theres Facebook page also

The more that show up the higher the likelihood of something actually happening I presume.

Is there any TDs going to be there, if Coveney said it might be possible from National Reserve, you'll have to keep pressure on the Fine Gael Tds

wool521

rangler1 wrote: »

Did you apply for them, have you got the required qualifications....if you ick the boxes now it should be easy enough.

I started course last sept but because I got herd no in 2011 I don't qualify as far as I can see

Farmer Pudsey

cloudroost wrote: »

Stanflt,
I haven't applied to the National reserve in the past - I didn't meet the criteria.....

Did you fill out an area aid form in any of the past 5 years. If you did you may get something under the Scottish derogation.

rangler1

wool521 wrote: »

I started course last sept but because I got herd no in 2011 I don't qualify as far as I can see

I actually thought that young farmers would get priority and you'd get what was left, but you're saying you wouldn't be even considered....I'm sure you have it well researched.
I'm not really involved so probably am wrong

kowtow

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Did you fill out an area aid form in any of the past 5 years. If you did you may get something under the Scottish derogation.

What is the significance of an area aid application in all this (I think it is the same for the safety grant..)

Never occurred to me to submit an area aid application, since (with no active entitlements) I wasn't submitting any application for aid at all...

grazeaway

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Did you fill out an area aid form in any of the past 5 years. If you did you may get something under the Scottish derogation.

The scotish derogation has been taken out of the new scheme. Bummer for me too as though I'm also a "young farmer" I don't qualify for the reserve as it stands. Was a similar case when I started farming, there was SFP on the farm I took over as it was in dairy during the reference years and my off farm wage was also over the limit in 07 when I started.

coolshannagh28

Was in the exact situation with a farm I bought too old and over the income limit ,I bought entitlements over the years and count it my best investment of the period

kerrycow

grazeaway wrote: »

The scotish derogation has been taken out of the new scheme.

What do you mean exactly Grazeaway? are you saying that they are no longer planning to give entitlements under Scottish Derogation or have I misunderstood?

I ring the Dept regularly about application criteria but they always say they don't know yet and to ring back in another month (been saying that since last July..)

grazeaway

kerrycow wrote: »

What do you mean exactly Grazeaway? are you saying that they are no longer planning to give entitlements under Scottish Derogation or have I misunderstood?

I ring the Dept regularly about application criteria but they always say they don't know yet and to ring back in another month (been saying that since last July..)

That's the feedback I got when I asked about them just after Christmas.

amacca

grazeaway wrote: »

That's the feedback I got when I asked about them just after Christmas.

They are telling different stories in that case.

I wonder which of us got the more informed dept rep.

rangler1

amacca wrote: »

They are telling different stories in that case.

I wonder which of us got the more informed dept rep.

Well, Coveney didn't give us much hope last Wednesday

grazeaway

amacca wrote: »

They are telling different stories in that case.

I wonder which of us got the more informed dept rep.

Well that was the word from the teagasc office in cork

amacca

Single payments guys in my case


still not finalised / being negotiated…..cant say for sure is the meaning if not the exact words I'm getting.