Running with a weight vest, advisable?

Leinstersqspur

Howdy, I'm training for the Berlin Half. My ideal race pace is about 6:45/ml and I'm trying to keep the weekend long run to about 8:45/ml, however trying to ensure the weekend long runs nice and slow is difficult because once the group get their legs warmed up it's hard to keep the pace under control or at least consistent throughout.

Is there any merit to running with a weighted vest for these long runs? Obviously I don't want to reduce my running economy but thought this might be a good way to ensure the long runs stay nice and slow pace, say increase my bodyweight by 5%?

Google throwing up varied opinions.....

Run and Jump

Leinstersqspur wrote: »

Howdy, I'm training for the Berlin Half. My ideal race pace is about 6:45/ml and I'm trying to keep the weekend long run to about 8:45/ml, however trying to ensure the weekend long runs nice and slow is difficult because once the group get their legs warmed up it's hard to keep the pace under control or at least consistent throughout.

Is there any merit to running with a weighted vest for these long runs? Obviously I don't want to reduce my running economy but thought this might be a good way to ensure the long runs stay nice and slow pace, say increase my bodyweight by 5%?

Google throwing up varied opinions.....

Unless you plan wearing the weighted vest in the marathon too to stop yourself going off too fast (which you shouldn't be planning to do), I'd say you don't need it. Learning to control your pace is all part of marathon training.

(That said, John Akii-Bua trained with a weighted vest before he won 400m hurdles gold at the 1972 Olympics...)

RayCun

Leinstersqspur wrote: »

Howdy, I'm training for the Berlin Half. My ideal race pace is about 6:45/ml and I'm trying to keep the weekend long run to about 8:45/ml,

That's a very big gap between race pace and training pace. Why?

(don't wear a weight vest)

TFBubendorfer

A few ultra runners train with weighted vests (I don't), apart from those guys it would be very rare indeed.

Like R&J said, learning to control your pace is part of training.

Leinstersqspur

RayCun wrote: »

That's a very big gap between race pace and training pace. Why?

(don't wear a weight vest)

My pace runs, tempos and intervals are maxing around the 6:45/ml mark. Assuming I should be running my fast runs quite fast and my slow runs a good pace slower. Is a variance of 2mins/ml too slow?

Run and Jump wrote: »

Unless you plan wearing the weighted vest in the marathon too to stop yourself going off too fast (which you shouldn't be planning to do), I'd say you don't need it. Learning to control your pace is all part of marathon training.

(That said, John Akii-Bua trained with a weighted vest before he won 400m hurdles gold at the 1972 Olympics...)

Cheers, I was curious to find out if people were using vests and whether there was any merit to them. I will continue as is!

RayCun

Leinstersqspur wrote: »

My pace runs, tempos and intervals are maxing around the 6:45/ml mark. Assuming I should be running my fast runs quite fast and my slow runs a good pace slower. Is a variance of 2mins/ml too slow?

Your intervals and tempos should be faster than planned half marathon pace, and your easy runs slower than HMP, but closer than that.

Just for example, McMillan would say
easy runs 7.13 to 8.13
long runs 7.16 to 8.31
recovery jogs 8.18 to 9.01

tempo interval 6.20 to 6.33
long tempos 6.25 to 6.41
steady state 6.42 to 6.59

400 intervals in about 1.25
800 intervals in about 2.58
k intervals in about 3.46
mile intervals in about 6.15

Leinstersqspur

RayCun wrote: »

Your intervals and tempos should be faster than planned half marathon pace, and your easy runs slower than HMP, but closer than that.

Just for example, McMillan would say
easy runs 7.13 to 8.13
long runs 7.16 to 8.31
recovery jogs 8.18 to 9.01

tempo interval 6.20 to 6.33
long tempos 6.25 to 6.41
steady state 6.42 to 6.59

400 intervals in about 1.25
800 intervals in about 2.58
k intervals in about 3.46
mile intervals in about 6.15

Right, so long runs around the 8.15 mark are fine, thanks!

Quick question, if I'm running 10k in 43mins is a sub 90min (pretty flat) half marathon realistic in two months time? Training 3-4 times per week....

RayCun

McMillan also predicts times - the calculator there would say 43 minute 10k is about 1.35 half

Obviously this is just a simple (10k time) x 2.2 = (half marathon time)
Some people do better over shorter distances, some people do better over longer distances. But most people relatively new to running do better over shorter distances because their aerobic capacity is less developed, and the McMillan prediction for longer races (especially going up to marathons) is very optimistic

Then again, if you're not running long the rate of improvement is very fast, you could be much better at both 10ks and half marathons in two months time

Timmaay

What ever happened that idiot who was going to break the 2 hr mark for a while marathon by just doing tempos wearing a 40 pound vest at 4.30min/mile pace ha?

Netwerk Errer

Leinstersqspur wrote: »

Howdy, I'm training for the Berlin Half. My ideal race pace is about 6:45/ml and I'm trying to keep the weekend long run to about 8:45/ml, however trying to ensure the weekend long runs nice and slow is difficult because once the group get their legs warmed up it's hard to keep the pace under control or at least consistent throughout.

Is there any merit to running with a weighted vest for these long runs? Obviously I don't want to reduce my running economy but thought this might be a good way to ensure the long runs stay nice and slow pace, say increase my bodyweight by 5%?

Google throwing up varied opinions.....

Personally, I can't see any reason for using a vest once you go past sprint distances*. Seeing as training is all about effort and pace. Wearing a vest would slow you down but the effort would remain the same because you are carring more weight which negates any effects of slowing down.

*A vest would be useful for mountain runners who can't find hills with a high enough gradient to mimic race conditions. It's for resistance training.

Also, you are running way too fast for a 43 minute 10k runner. Your race pace for the half marathon is 1:28 which is faster than your 10k pace. This is not a good approach as you should be training relative to your current fitness level and not training at a pace well above where you are at. As you stand, race pace and tempo miles should be slower than 7:10 per mile.

I would diregard the table of paces Ray gave a few posts ago now because he didn't know you were a 43 minute 10k runner. Those training paces are more in line with someone who is already in sub 1.30 shape. You always start a training cycle with paces that reflect your current fitness and the pace will drop naturally by effort level during the cycle.

RayCun

this guy!

ECOLII

I would advise against weighted vest also. As NE mentioned there is a big difference between sprinters using weights and resistance to build explosive power and sprint mechanics over short duration but for sustained efforts you will promote poor posture and ineffective muscle recruitment.

If you are looking to keep the pace slow set a rule where by the person who usually runs the slowest pace dictates the pace and no one can come past him.

Looking at your pace ranges they seem fine as there are at the moment for your level.

Netwerk Errer

ECOLII wrote: »

Looking at your pace ranges they seem fine as there are at the moment for your level.

Do you think so? I would disagree with running 6:45 HMP miles when 10k pace is 7min. 6:45 is probably close to 5k pace for the OP right now and as you know, is outside of anyone's definition of tempo. A hard 3 mile tempo at that pace is a 5k race and you would be running 15 seconds/mile faster than 10k pace for a longer near 40 minute tempo.

RayCun

Netwerk Errer wrote: »

I would diregard the table of paces Ray gave a few posts ago now because he didn't know you were a 43 minute 10k runner.

yes, unless that 10k was some time ago and you have good reason to believe you are significantly faster now

I got those paces by putting a 1.28 half into the McMillan calculator - put a 43 minute 10k in and you'll get a different set of numbers

ECOLII

Netwerk Errer wrote: »

Do you think so? I would disagree with running 6:45 HMP miles when 10k pace is 7min. 6:45 is probably close to 5k pace for the OP right now and as you know, is outside of anyone's definition of tempo. A hard 3 mile tempo at that pace is a 5k race and you would be running 15 seconds/mile faster than 10k pace for a longer near 40 minute tempo.

Apologies sorry I should have clarified regarding the long run (was focusing on that element given that he was discussing that in relation to weighted vest)

ray lanigan

I have a 1 stone weighted vest.
Years ago I was going to run a local race around sand dunes and for 6 weeks I ran around that course wearing the vest on every run.
I ran it six days a week,1 day easy and 1 day hard with the vest.
1 week before the race I took the vest of and ran it hard and got the same fecking time as my fastest with the thing on.
I was convinced I would be a machine after it.
In the end I didn't even bother running the local race.