Degree is actually hurting job applications?

Idjit

Hi all,
Like a lot of folks on this forum, I'm having serious trouble finding permanent employment. I graduated last year and have had two temporary jobs since then, simply to get some kind of income (not related to the degree).

At this point I am applying to every genuinely entry-level job available regardless of whether my degree is relevant because the supposed "entry level" graduate jobs ask for 2+ years experience.

I made an appointment with an employment officer, who told me that having my degree on my CV might actually be hurting my chances at getting interviews since I am applying to such 'low level' jobs (ones that don't require much education or experience) because I seem overqualified but the ones I am qualified for wont take me!!

Has anyone here had to remove their degree from their CV because of this? Does anyone have any advice/resources for finding genuine entry level graduate jobs?

I'm pulling my hair out in frustration trying to settle into a permanent job. Three years in college feels like a waste of my time now because the only jobs I even get responses from are ones I could have walked into straight from school!:(

Mrs OBumble

You have two totally different issues.

One is finding temporary / low-level jobs to keep yourself in money. Write a 2nd CV for these ones. Remove your degree - say you went to college (or it looks like you were dossing), just don't mention what happened. Use short words and simple sentences. Put most emphasis on the work experience you have, and college as an after thought.

The other is finding a job in the area you studied in. This is what your "real" CV is for. On it, emphasis your degree, and the transferable skills from the unrelated jobs. There are lots of strategies for jub hunting: Part of this is just to keep trying. Part is network - who do you know who knows someone who works in a company where you want to work: ask them to help you. (don't ask them for a job outright, just ask them to keep an eye out for you). See what you can do to make some contacts in the industry. Don't only apply for jobs specifically for graduates - apply for anything you think you can do.




PS At the worse of the recession, I was doing any kind of temping job I could get. In all, I had three CVs. All of them told the truth - but they used words that made sense to people who might be hiring into the type of job that the CV was for. This does work, provided you're honest and remember to communicate to your audience.

Idjit

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

You have two totally different issues.

One is finding temporary / low-level jobs to keep yourself in money. Write a 2nd CV for these ones. Remove your degree - say you went to college (or it looks like you were dossing), just don't mention what happened. Use short words and simple sentences. Put most emphasis on the work experience you have, and college as an after thought.

The other is finding a job in the area you studied in. This is what your "real" CV is for. On it, emphasis your degree, and the transferable skills from the unrelated jobs. There are lots of strategies for jub hunting: Part of this is just to keep trying. Part is network - who do you know who knows someone who works in a company where you want to work: ask them to help you. (don't ask them for a job outright, just ask them to keep an eye out for you). See what you can do to make some contacts in the industry. Don't only apply for jobs specifically for graduates - apply for anything you think you can do.




PS At the worse of the recession, I was doing any kind of temping job I could get. In all, I had three CVs. All of them told the truth - but they used words that made sense to people who might be hiring into the type of job that the CV was for. This does work, provided you're honest and remember to communicate to your audience.

Thank you for your advice. Did you find that having the degree details omitted from your CV made a significant difference in applying for temp jobs?

I was also told January can be pretty miserable for job-seekers but I've been getting nothing but rejections and my confidence has really taken a beating.

Jim2007

So apart from job applications, what else have you been doing to find a job? Networking, cold calling? Seeking introductions?

Idjit

Jim2007 wrote: »

So apart from job applications, what else have you been doing to find a job? Networking, cold calling? Seeking introductions?

I tried cold calling multiple companies but that just doesn't seem to be an effective strategy anymore. I have no way of networking as my previous positions were contained (companies with less than 5 members of staff privately owned with no opportunity to reach out).

I'm not sure what you mean by 'seeking introductions' as this would surely be on the same par as cold-calling.

ixus

One of the biggest problems for people who review CV's is getting general applications not targeted at the company and worse still, the specific role.

For example; a risk analyst role where HR get applications with a cover letter stating they want a career in finance. You're wasting everyone's time with that sort of application. Then there's the people who put the wrong name of company down because they're applying to everything.

Filler on a CV is also a pet hate. Don't put in every subject you did in college. Likely the person reviewing CV knows. The next level of filler is the CV containing a medal they won at U14.

A clear, concise and targeted CV will help you stand out from the pile. You can't appreciate how important this is until you're on the other side looking at 20-100 CV's with a deadline in mind.

Hope this helps.

bpmurray

You didn't mention what your degree is in, limiting the advice you might be able to get here. BA in Classical mythology and Baroque Art?

Whatever it is, it's likely there's a group around town that's involved in the same thing with meetups you could attend and where you could build a network. If you've recently graduated, your knowledge is fresh and probably covers aspects that people who did their degree 20 years ago did not, so offering to present a talk on that would improve your chances.

And if someone told you that your degree is hurting your chances, you're definitely applying for the wrong jobs!

Idjit

Thanks everyone for your replies. I'm going to try draft a few different concise CVs and gauge the response I get from each of them.

I always write customized cover letters for each position so I'll continue doing that but perhaps the content of the CV is what's letting me down.

smeal

Had similar experiences job hunting OP!:)

Finished my BCL in May 2014. Worked in the hospitality industry up in Dublin for the summer (Soul and social life killer) in a desperate bid to try and search for office work that could build my CV. Applied for secretarial roles and was told (i) I haven't got enough experience and (ii) they took the view that because I had a law degree it wasn't worth their while training me up as a secretary because in a few years time I'd probably go off in search of a trainee position (From a HR view, this is fair enough).. Then when applying for legal intern/paralegals jobs I was told that I didn't have enough practical experience in firms- vicious circle!! What p*ssed me off also was seeing all these 'Grad/Entry Level' jobs that wanted "recent graduates with 2 years experience"- I mean, who has 2 years full time experience while studying?!

I wasn't getting far with the legal jobs so started applying for anything that could boost my CV - admin, secretary and reception roles in any type of company. Had an interview once for an office assistant in a transport company and was told that I was too qualified and that the leaving cert would do! So yes, in these kind of situations hide your education even though it's not a nice thing to do- everyone is proud of their education.

So being over qualified and under experienced I was at my wit's end. Got in touch with a great recruitment agency who really understood what I wanted now and where I wanted to be in the future. They placed me in a junior office assistant role. They told me it was the kind of job I'd stick for a year but it would pay off for experience. After two weeks in the role I was offered a secretarial/reception role in the same firm- a step up the responsibility ladder, much more hands on and great experience. Enjoying the experience while I study for professional exams.

Although I don't know what career/education background you're from I can advise try and get your foot in the door at the bottom before applying for these grad positions. Even a year's experience will pay off. Try the recruitment agencies if you don't want to hide your education. It's tough work out there starting off but persist and get your foot in the door because once you're in, you're in

bcklschaps

Jade182 wrote: »

Has anyone here had to remove their degree from their CV because of this? (

D'oh ... yes.

Back in the day ... I had a different carefully crafted CV for every job I applied for.

If it was related to my actual College stuff .. in the place where relevant experience should go I padded it out with 'worthy stuff' I thought an employer might like to hear and of course could never actually prove/disprove I didn't have/do/know.

If it was a low-level job

Well ...You can pretty much put anything in the CV as long as it reeks of

"I'm a decent skin, team player type who will work his ass off for peanuts, and when told to jump, my answer will always be, how high master"

InTheTrees

Jade182 wrote: »

Has anyone here had to remove their degree from their CV because of this? Does anyone have any advice/resources for finding genuine entry level graduate jobs?

Of course.

Custom build a CV for every application. Gear it towards your potential employer and give them what they want.

For an entry level position they dont want to see that your over qualified and likely to leave as soon as something better comes along.

I'm a lot older than you and I have years of employment I dont mention on my CV.

Idjit

Thanks again for all the new replies. I think it just stings imagining toning down the degree when I'm fresh from all that hard work!

I'll definitely take the advice here to have multiple CVs for different positions and cater to them. I was just a little surprised when the employment officer mentioned the degree being a problem for entry level jobs, didn't realise other people had already figured that out!:rolleyes:

uck51js9zml2yt

Whats your degree in?

I had the same problem. I have a Postgrad Dip as well as a BSc hons in a different field. THe advise was to take the BSc off my cv.
Ive done that and am starting to get calls from agencies and interviews.
Ive 2 different CVs for 2 types of jobs.

Have you considered it might not be the degree but the format and wording of your cv?

Jim2007

Jade182 wrote: »

I tried cold calling multiple companies but that just doesn't seem to be an effective strategy anymore. I have no way of networking as my previous positions were contained (companies with less than 5 members of staff privately owned with no opportunity to reach out).

I'm not sure what you mean by 'seeking introductions' as this would surely be on the same par as cold-calling.

Well cold calling is always going to be difficult especially at the start until you develop some kind of technique. I usually start by chatting to the receptions and try to find out from them the names of the people I should be talking to. I then leave it for a week or two and ring back with some like "Oh hi Mary, how are you doing today.... listen could you ever put me through to <whoever>..." and very often this is enough to get you past the gatekeeper.

Networking is all about meeting people who can help you move forward, it really does not matter where you worked or how big the company was. You need to be in places and at events that will allow you to meet people who work in the area you want to get into. That can be PR functions, professional society meetings, local events in the area where the office or company operates, even the local pub where most of the employees drink after work is worth a go.

Seeking introductions is just that - asking people you know to introduce you to someone that might be able to help you directly or perhaps if not they may know someone that can help. Start with something like LinkedIn, link in all the people you know and then see how they know that might help. Failing that try to use it to hook up directly with people that work at companies that might be potential employers for you.

Idjit

Jim2007 wrote: »

Seeking introductions is just that - asking people you know to introduce you to someone that might be able to help you directly or perhaps if not they may know someone that can help. Start with something like LinkedIn, link in all the people you know and then see how they know that might help. Failing that try to use it to hook up directly with people that work at companies that might be potential employers for you.

I unfortunately don't have any contacts that could help me in that manner, all of my connections are still students or have no relevant contacts themselves as they work in local shops.

I have tried LinkedIn and contacting potential employers directly but this is akin to cold-calling and doesn't seem to get favourable reactions from employers these days.

Most of them tell me to just keep an eye on the Careers section of their website or send my CV in to be kept on file. I have never gotten a response from using this method of job-hunting.

I will just have to make different CVs as the other posters suggested and continue applying to large levels of positions each day. Mass direct applications through active job ads is the only method I have ever gotten interviews/success from.

Thank you all for your advice. Hopefully something comes up soon.

Timistry

I have been faced with this dilemma of late. Been here in Oz for the past 4 years. Was made redundant in October.

I have tried to look for an equivalent/higher position than before but to no avail. Either I had not enough experience or their were more suitable applicants for the position (told by HR). Have also tried some jobs were my skills would be transferable but I have not even had a callback or email bar the generic rejection ones.

I have been looking for low level jobs lately and the few interviews I have had, I got knocked back due to being too qualified... this especially hit me hard this week because I was very keen to do the job and would have loved some exposure in the particular industry.

I have been working as a laborer for crap money just to pay the bills for 3 weeks. CV was dumbed down and qualifications removed. Got work within a few days..

One day last week, the supervisor told us that the manger commented that we were not working hard enough.There was uproar amongst the labourers (boss in aircon vs labouring in 38C). The supervisor said that the difference between us and the management is that they have made the effort to do to uni and get qualifications to improve their career prospects whilst we are content at been the **** sholvers.... All I could do was chuckle at the irony of my predicament.

hoodwinked

Just to let you know, when my husband graduated most of the entry level graduate jobs he applied for also had 2+ years experience.

he applied anyway and as it turned out got the job, he did have 6 months work exp from his college course however he was honest when they asked and they took him on anyway.

i never understood why they say "2 years experience" but don't let that stop you applying if its a job you want and think you'd be good at.

as for the temporary job it makes sense that they would be more reluctant to take you on with the degree on your cv, they probably see that and think "well he/she'll be off as soon as some graduate job comes along" and when they compare that to someone who doesn't have a degree and more likely looking for the job long term its more likely they'll choose that person.

Jim2007

Jade182 wrote: »

I will just have to make different CVs as the other posters suggested and continue applying to large levels of positions each day. Mass direct applications through active job ads is the only method I have ever gotten interviews/success from.

Well if you are content to leave it at that, but I would not and there are lots of other people who would not either - remember some jobs never get advertised.

Last year I was made redundant and as I'm over 50 and the employment office did not offer much. In the end I was only out of work for four months and I got the job as a result of an introduction from the husband of one of my wife's colleagues in her social club. He was not looking for someone himself, but he knew someone who knew someone that did! I know it is difficult to do, but it comes down to how badly you want to find a job.

Idjit

Jim2007 wrote: »

Well if you are content to leave it at that, but I would not and there are lots of other people who would not either - remember some jobs never get advertised.

Last year I was made redundant and as I'm over 50 and the employment office did not offer much. In the end I was only out of work for four months and I got the job as a result of an introduction from the husband of one of my wife's colleagues in her social club. He was not looking for someone himself, but he knew someone who knew someone that did! I know it is difficult to do, but it comes down to how badly you want to find a job.

The problem with that method for someone like myself is that everyone I know are too young to have any employment contacts themselves (they work only in the local shop or are students). I have been in contact with the older people I know but they just tell me the same thing as the employers: to keep an eye on their websites because it's all done online now.

I'm not content to 'leave it at that' and I don't think that's a fair thing to say. I'm not being idle in my job search here, it's just that I have either already been trying the methods you listed or they are not available to someone in my situation.

Jim2007

Jade182 wrote: »

The problem with that method for someone like myself is that everyone I know are too young to have any employment contacts themselves (they work only in the local shop or are students).

Yes but they do have parents, friends and relations and so on... also, what about open days and PR events at possible employers, frequenting pubs and social events...

Idjit

Jim2007 wrote: »

Yes but they do have parents, friends and relations and so on... also, what about open days and PR events at possible employers, frequenting pubs and social events...

As I specified above, the older people I have managed to get in contact with just refer me to set recruitment processes online.

I've gone to a few open days whenever they crop up but I'm not sure how to keep an eye out for social events as they don't seem to be public (non-staff) events. Would I just have to call them periodically and ask if they have one I can attend?

Get Real

I understand what you mean as I had similar thoughts at the time of graduating and applying for every job. But my perception has changed altogether.

I am of the opinion that employers want the best of the best no matter what the job.

In my time working my first job, we took on many staff, young, old, with a degree and without.

I eventually became involved in the hiring process myself, and would never disregard someone because they had a degree. When you look carefully at such a scenario, it makes little sense.

The following theories are quite common:

1.A person with a degree is likely to leave for another job.- Okay, but the wrong type of person is likely to leave because of incompetence, lack of reliability, personal circumstances etc. therefore an underqualified person is just as risky, more likely to leave(be let go) sooner, cost time, money and productivity in both their inability and replacement

2.A person with a degree is over qualified.-Over qualified in relation to what? To stocking shelves/filing papers/ emailing people? Do they require a degree, no. Can someone who has a degree do them? Yes. The likelihood that a decent proportion of people just like yourself currently working in the particular job you applied for have degrees? Guaranteed.

Can people without degrees get jobs that require one? no (so fair play for opening up that opportunity) Are people with degrees ruled out of jobs that don't need one? No.

During my time in my first job, I saw many people come and go. Incompetence came from both people with degrees and without. "leavers" were also split between the two. People who stayed/progressed/ used the experience to get another job/fund further development (educational/experience or otherwise) was also fairly split.

Therefore I don't believe having a degree hurts job applications. Having addressed the above issues I just don't see how it could. And I can relate to getting turned down for jobs.

We had a job (1 position) advertised once, there were over 360 applications that day. Out of this, we needed a pool of 10 for interview. 1 would get the job out of 10. I'm sure of the other 350 remaining with no interview offer at all, 40-45% were annoyed because they were "over qualified" , and the other 55-60% were annoyed because they were "under qualified"

PS-sorry for taking the human aspect out of it and getting economical etc. I really hope your job hunting goes well and you get what you want in the end

Idjit

Get Real wrote: »

I understand what you mean as I had similar thoughts at the time of graduating and applying for every job. But my perception has changed altogether.

I am of the opinion that employers want the best of the best no matter what the job.

In my time working my first job, we took on many staff, young, old, with a degree and without.

I eventually became involved in the hiring process myself, and would never disregard someone because they had a degree. When you look carefully at such a scenario, it makes little sense.

The following theories are quite common:

1.A person with a degree is likely to leave for another job.- Okay, but the wrong type of person is likely to leave because of incompetence, lack of reliability, personal circumstances etc. therefore an underqualified person is just as risky, more likely to leave(be let go) sooner, cost time, money and productivity in both their inability and replacement

2.A person with a degree is over qualified.-Over qualified in relation to what? To stocking shelves/filing papers/ emailing people? Do they require a degree, no. Can someone who has a degree do them? Yes. The likelihood that a decent proportion of people just like yourself currently working in the particular job you applied for have degrees? Guaranteed.

Can people without degrees get jobs that require one? no (so fair play for opening up that opportunity) Are people with degrees ruled out of jobs that don't need one? No.

During my time in my first job, I saw many people come and go. Incompetence came from both people with degrees and without. "leavers" were also split between the two. People who stayed/progressed/ used the experience to get another job/fund further development (educational/experience or otherwise) was also fairly split.

Therefore I don't believe having a degree hurts job applications. Having addressed the above issues I just don't see how it could. And I can relate to getting turned down for jobs.

We had a job (1 position) advertised once, there were over 360 applications that day. Out of this, we needed a pool of 10 for interview. 1 would get the job out of 10. I'm sure of the other 350 remaining with no interview offer at all, 40-45% were annoyed because they were "over qualified" , and the other 55-60% were annoyed because they were "under qualified"

PS-sorry for taking the human aspect out of it and getting economical etc. I really hope your job hunting goes well and you get what you want in the end

No need to apologise, this is just what I was hoping from; a perspective from someone who has been on both sides of the hiring desk. I do try to keep it in my head that a lot of candidates of these positions wont even get an interview offer because of the numbers, sometimes the ol' self-confidence takes too frequent hits and that starts to get difficult.

I think I'll try a mix of the advice given here. I've created a CV showing my degree but with different wording and formatting to see if it was my CV layout that was part of the problem first.

Kournikova

I had an interview where at the end she basically said my education seemed nothing like what I was applying for. I have a masters and it was a cabin crew position and I got the feeling she assumed I would jump ship the first opportunity for something better and while I didn't want the job forever I'd have done it for a couple of years, was just looking for something more temporary and have an interest in the aviation industry so her telling me I was over qualified was kinda disheartening so yeah think l'll work on the two CV thing now.