NCT Refusal Because Of Rot

Bongalongherb

Just got back from the NCT there and the car passed on everything but he gave it a refusal and to go back for a retest as the chassis above the end of the exhaust has a small bit of rot. It says main structural Mmbr - nearside-rear.

Does anyone know how much it will cost to have a welder weld a metal plate to it ? will it be cheap ?.

Thanks

Bong.

corktina

shouldn't be too costly but impossible for anyone to say without seeing it. Ask your mechanic

dr.fuzzenstein

Pic would be handy

obezyana

Is it surface rot or worse? I know some one who had their car failed for one of the cross members beings slightly rusted, they cleaned it up and re painted it, out it back in for the test and it passed no problems. As said tho no one could say for sure without seeing the extend of the rot. My brother is a welder and he usually does a job like yours for around 50euro (depending on ease of access) so it shouldn't cost too much.

Bongalongherb

I can't get under to see it as the back-bumper-spoiler is blocking my view. It needs to be put on a ramp to actually see it.

The NCT guy just said that he rubbed his hand on it and it was flaking away, he never said there was a hole or such in it though. It passed the NCT no problem last year and it was never mentioned and I don't drive a lot. He also said that these kind of cars mitsubishi colts 1999 are known for this problem, as the heat from the exhaust seems to wear the above chassis away. He said he put an X on the spot of the rotting part, so it's probably not too bad if he could mark it.

I'll get a video camera and a torch and will hold it under to see can i get a good visual of it.

dr.fuzzenstein

You can always try the phone (if it has flash) and do a few lucky dip shots. Sometimes that works.

biko

Take it to 2 or 3 local mechs and get quotes

obezyana

Bongalongherb wrote: »

I can't get under to see it as the back-bumper-spoiler is blocking my view. It needs to be put on a ramp to actually see it.

The NCT guy just said that he rubbed his hand on it and it was flaking away, he never said there was a hole or such in it though. It passed the NCT no problem last year and it was never mentioned and I don't drive a lot. He also said that these kind of cars mitsubishi colts 1999 are known for this problem, as the heat from the exhaust seems to wear the above chassis away. He said he put an X on the spot of the rotting part, so it's probably not too bad if he could mark it.

I'll get a video camera and a torch and will hold it under to see can i get a good visual of it.

If it is only surface rust you can clean it paint and your good to go again

corktina

if it's only surface rust it shouldn't have failed.

slimjimmc

corktina wrote: »

if it's only surface rust it shouldn't have failed.

Exactly. Surface rust that rubs off is allowed but if the NCT tester found the surface is flaking rust then the car has Advanced or possibly even Extensive rust. Neither grades are acceptable on the primary structure as per NCT Manual Chapter 35.

obezyana

corktina wrote: »

if it's only surface rust it shouldn't have failed.

Maybe it shouldn't have but testers are failing cars for surface rust.

Bongalongherb

Well I tried the video camera and a torch around the area he said but couldn't really find anything except a bit of rust here and there. Will just bring it to a few places to get quotes and see how it goes...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AuJNZ3PdISw

corktina

I couldn't see any rot in that very clear video. There were a few minor spots that looked as if they could be wire brushed and painted. I don't think you've too much to worry about....needs a bit of prodding with a screwdriver really though.

dr.fuzzenstein

corktina wrote: »

I couldn't see any rot in that very clear video. There were a few minor spots that looked as if they could be wire brushed and painted. I don't think you've too much to worry about....needs a bit of prodding with a screwdriver really though.

Some NCT tester decided he needed to fill his quota maybe? That is indeed none too shabby. My car looks worse underneath and rust was never mentioned.

Bongalongherb

I'll be dropping my car off to a few places on tuesday for a few quotes. Will update in regards to how bad it really is.

When the folks put it on the ramp to look for the problem I'll take a video of the problem as well. Will see how she goes. 'Stop Lamps' nearside -rear failed but fixed now.

goz83

Looks pretty clean to me. The mitsis need to be checked on the chassis legs and around the back box area. What I see in the video is not even worth mentioning. The flaking rust was probably nothing more than a bit of dirt. I had an fto fail for the same thing. I took it home, had a look under, saw nothing more than surface rust on a chassis leg. Took it to mechanic who confirmed same. Got tracking done (which was a fail) and took it back to nct. The advanced corrosion mentioned, was never touched and was not mentioned when checked again. Car passed retest. No point arguing, is there? Especially considering it needed tracking done anyway.

Bongalongherb

My mechanic had a look at this so-called rot and said it just needed sanding and a small bit of filler and paint. He said it was grand and will pass no problem. So it wasn't as bad as I had thought, thankfully. €70 all told for the fix and a few bulbs and the repair of the cigarette lighter fuse as that wasn't working, neither was the fog-light.

Will put it in for retest on monday and see how she goes.

I still find it odd that all the lights were working grand the day before i went to the NCT. The chances of all these bulbs failing on that day just puzzles me. I wonder would it have anything to do with the NCT machines being connected or something causing them to blow ? it's just odd that these bulbs weren't working on the day when I checked them all before I went to the NCT.

slimjimmc

Bongalongherb wrote: »

My mechanic had a look at this so-called rot and said it just needed sanding and a small bit of filler and paint. He said it was grand and will pass no problem. So it wasn't as bad as I had thought, thankfully. €70 all told for the fix and a few bulbs and the repair of the cigarette lighter fuse as that wasn't working, neither was the fog-light.

Will put it in for retest on monday and see how she goes.

I still find it odd that all the lights were working grand the day before i went to the NCT. The chances of all these bulbs failing on that day just puzzles me. I wonder would it have anything to do with the NCT machines being connected or something causing them to blow ? it's just odd that these bulbs weren't working on the day when I checked them all before I went to the NCT.

Filler on a structural member :eek:
Sound's like he's hiding the symptom rather than treating the problem.

Bulbs can go any time even new ones. Afaik nothing the NCT connect could possibly cause them to blow. In many cases people simply don't notice them going, just notice how many cars driving around without front sidelamps.

Bongalongherb

It wasn't a hole in the member or anything like that, it was just after sanding it and added a bit of filler then a bit of paint. I will soon find out if they are happy with it that's for sure.

Filler on a structural member :eek:

So I take it that this is not acceptable ?

I'm sure the NCT person that checks it will tell me if they don't think it's the way to go.

At this stage my wallet is on the table beside me jumping up and down looking at me with angry eye's

slimjimmc

Bongalongherb wrote: »

It wasn't a hole in the member or anything like that, it was just after sanding it and added a bit of filler then a bit of paint. I will soon find out if they are happy with it that's for sure.




So I take it that this is not acceptable ?

I'm sure the NCT person that checks it will tell me if they don't think it's the way to go.

At this stage my wallet is on the table beside me jumping up and down looking at me with angry eye's

No, I don't believe filler would be acceptable in the primary structure as it provides no structural integrity whatsoever. Your mechanic is clearly only using it to conceal a structural defect in an attempt to pass the test. There doesn't have to be a hole for the component to fail, it only needs the rust to penetrate enough to flake and thin the metal which seems to have been what the tester found. Whether the tester notices the concealment is a different matter.

Bongalongherb

Well, that doesn't make me feel all too happy at all. So basically the structural member would need to be cut-off and a new member welded I presume. I'll see what happens with the NCT and will have to have it properly looked at so.

dr.fuzzenstein

Bongalongherb wrote: »

Well, that doesn't make me feel all too happy at all. So basically the structural member would need to be cut-off and a new member welded I presume. I'll see what happens with the NCT and will have to have it properly looked at so.

What? Nonsense! We just don't get the filler bit. From what i saw on the video all it takes is to take a wire brush, scrub off the rust, bit of rust treatment maybe and paint over it. Filler is used to get body panels perfectly back into shape. Pointless underneath the car where no one can see it. Certainly no call to start cutting and welding, you fell victim to an overzealous busybody NCT tester. Even just cleaning up the area might do the trick.

corktina

it's the need for filler that alarms us....

dr.fuzzenstein

corktina wrote: »

it's the need for filler that alarms us....

Exactly. I didn't see anything in that video that would necessitate filler, never mind getting out an angle grinder.

corktina

that's my view...there's a few localised scabs which if treated now will be good to go. Where it needs the filler is a mystery

Bongalongherb

I understand what you folk are saying, it's the first time I had to deal with a problem like this one. What I will do after this NCT test even if it passes, will be to get all the bits of rust wired off and painted and also have this particular filler part fully inspected for piece of mind.

I'm better off getting all the underneath bits of rust removed and painted to stop it getting worse and having to do it again next year. Will update regarding the NCT retest shortly.

JohnBoy26

Remove the rust and paint the area with some zinc rich paint. You will not have a problem with rust coming through in that area again. There should be no need for filler but maybe the mechanic wanted to smooth the area off if there was some pitting. I still wouldn't bother with filler though if I wanted a long lasting corrosion resistant job.

Still without actually seeing the issue it's hard to tell. That video doesn't show anything but it doesn't show all of the chassis either.

slimjimmc

Corrosion can also occur from within which is why NCT testers also go by feel. If the metal feels springy when it shouldn't then it has weakened even though it may not appear too bad on the outside.

Bongalongherb

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

Remove the rust and paint the area with some zinc rich paint. You will not have a problem with rust coming through in that area again. There should be no need for filler but maybe the mechanic wanted to smooth the area off if there was some pitting. I still wouldn't bother with filler though if I wanted a long lasting corrosion resistant job.

Still without actually seeing the issue it's hard to tell. That video doesn't show anything but it doesn't show all of the chassis either.

This is what I think. He probably just wanted a clean smooth surface. This mechanic is a decent man and I'm sure if it was bad he would have told me. He's not a mechanic that I don't know of, I have known him for years.

It was just hard to get a good video-shot of the thing. I moved the video around in the area the NCT guy said it was.

Bongalongherb

slimjimmc wrote: »

Corrosion can also occur from within which is why NCT testers also go by feel. If the metal feels springy when it shouldn't then it has weakened even though it may not appear too bad on the outside.

Like I said, if it was anything like that bad he would have advised me straight away. This guy is not just your random mechanic.

JohnBoy26

slimjimmc wrote: »

Corrosion can also occur from within which is why NCT testers also go by feel. If the metal feels springy when it shouldn't then it has weakened even though it may not appear too bad on the outside.

You have a point but Usually when things are that bad there will be a large amount of rust on the outside as well and the tester would more than likely make a hole there when checking that area.

It should be easy to check the inside of the back end of the chassis rails though as there is plenty of places where a torch can be shone through, as is evident in the video the op posted.

dr.fuzzenstein

slimjimmc wrote: »

Corrosion can also occur from within which is why NCT testers also go by feel. If the metal feels springy when it shouldn't then it has weakened even though it may not appear too bad on the outside.

Any fail there will have a screwdriver hole in it. The missus' MX5 had rot in the sills, tester poked with screwdriver, it went right through. They do poke and prod, so normally it's easy to spot what area they're on about.

Snap, JonBoy26

Bongalongherb

NCT retest in the morning. €173 all-told, it better pass the retest or I will explode :mad: €28 just to lift my car on the ramp to look, rip-off for sure.

dr.fuzzenstein

Bongalongherb wrote: »

NCT retest in the morning. €173 all-told, it better pass the retest or I will explode :mad: €28 just to lift my car on the ramp to look, rip-off for sure.

Bongalongherb

Well it passed. But I had a chat with the NCT guy and asked him was the job decent enough, he said he poked it hard and hit it with a hammer a few times and said it seemed solid enough.

He did say though that some NCT folks might not be happy enough with it and would request that I got a welder to weld a new metal bar to the member as they can't see how bad it would be when filler was used over it. But he did say it seemed very solid enough.

I'm going to get the whole underneath of the car wire-brushed soon and will get a proper welder job done on it just for my own piece of mind, and for the NCT next year.

dr.fuzzenstein

First of all, wahey! Happy days.
Don't rely on other people to tell what the underside of your car looks like, get it to a trusted mechanic or bodyshop, have them put it up on a ramp and have a look with the guy. Maybe take pics, we always love a few pics on this forum
From the short video it looks OK, there shouldn't be a need to go crazy on it, but maybe things will look different on a ramp...