Who is ultimately responsible for children safety when BOM have washed hand of matter

hairyairyfairy

Our school is undergoing refurb and "someone" made the decision somewhere along the line that a class of junior/senior infants should remain in a pre existing prefab (while all other pupils moved to new temporary prefabs at end of school grounds)

This prefab is now sitting unprotected (no security around 3 sides) in the middle of the building site with machinery working directly outside the window, debris falling over and under the security hoarding leading to the door of the prefab, kids afraid that the hoarding wd fall on them and of course a tower crane erected beside this unprotected building.

Chairman and BOM refuse to move the kids into safer accommodation and chairman refuses to meet with the parents to hear our genuine concerns as the paperwork is all in order, which has never been disputed, but it is only paper at the end of the day and a digger has more force than a piece of paper in this instance and the biggest concern is human error as this site is so tight because this prefab is in the way and with machines working on three sides of this cardboard box a lapse of concentration could have devastating results.

So the question is, who is ultimately responsible for the kids health and safety when they are at school? If anything happens every department and agency and the minister herself will be condemning this, but at the moment no one apart from BOM appears to have any jurisdiction over their safety and well being and the parents of more than half the children want them moved somewhere safer.

muckisluck

The Board of Management is ultimately responsible. It sounds like they believe everything is in order. In this day and age of Health and Safety being bandied about at every turn I'm sure they didn't come to this decision lightly.

byhookorbycrook

I can't see a BOM exposing children to any kind of risk, knowingly.

hairyairyfairy

Agreed that most of the BOM are not knowingly doing it, but every day there is a new concern, and complaining to the master and chairman is just falling on deaf ears and they are not passing these incidents onto the other board members.

Chairman will not discuss the matter further or meet the parents (eventhough most parents want the kids moved) citing that he can do no more, eventhough he is the only one who can move the kids and err on the side of caution

Since the BOM meeting there has been Debris coming over the fence and the walls of the buildings have not even started yet, and debris coming under the fence is a tripping hazard.

Crane passing over the prefab with a load during school hours (which is a definate no no)

Builders holding back security fencing to stop it falling on parents and children going to the prefab. Parents holding back the fencing to stop it falling on cars at pickup time!

We were told in nov that there would be no machinery near the prefab, but that was incorrect esp when they since erected a tower crane right beside it

It is just hard to imagine in this era of helath and safety that anyone would choose not too err on the side of caution especially when children are involved and esp when there are alternative places where the kids can go and be out of any potential harm.

But so far, it seems that there is no department responsible for children's safety in school? (Apart from the BOM)

obplayer

hairyairyfairy wrote: »

Agreed that most of the BOM are not knowingly doing it, but every day there is a new concern, and complaining to the master and chairman is just falling on deaf ears and they are not passing these incidents onto the other board members.

Chairman will not discuss the matter further or meet the parents (eventhough most parents want the kids moved) citing that he can do no more, eventhough he is the only one who can move the kids and err on the side of caution

Since the BOM meeting there has been Debris coming over the fence and the walls of the buildings have not even started yet, and debris coming under the fence is a tripping hazard.

Crane passing over the prefab with a load during school hours (which is a definate no no)

Builders holding back security fencing to stop it falling on parents and children going to the prefab. Parents holding back the fencing to stop it falling on cars at pickup time!

We were told in nov that there would be no machinery near the prefab, but that was incorrect esp when they since erected a tower crane right beside it

It is just hard to imagine in this era of helath and safety that anyone would choose not too err on the side of caution especially when children are involved and esp when there are alternative places where the kids can go and be out of any potential harm.

But so far, it seems that there is no department responsible for children's safety in school? (Apart from the BOM)

Have you tried the Citizens Information people? You can find them on...
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/

How Strange

If you honestly think it's that dangerous then contact the health and safety authority.

J.R.

hairyairyfairy wrote: »

Agreed that most of the BOM are not knowingly doing it, but every day there is a new concern, and complaining to the master and chairman is just falling on deaf ears and they are not passing these incidents onto the other board members.

Chairman will not discuss the matter further or meet the parents (eventhough most parents want the kids moved) citing that he can do no more, eventhough he is the only one who can move the kids and err on the side of caution

Since the BOM meeting there has been Debris coming over the fence and the walls of the buildings have not even started yet, and debris coming under the fence is a tripping hazard.

Crane passing over the prefab with a load during school hours (which is a definate no no)

Builders holding back security fencing to stop it falling on parents and children going to the prefab. Parents holding back the fencing to stop it falling on cars at pickup time!

We were told in nov that there would be no machinery near the prefab, but that was incorrect esp when they since erected a tower crane right beside it

It is just hard to imagine in this era of helath and safety that anyone would choose not too err on the side of caution especially when children are involved and esp when there are alternative places where the kids can go and be out of any potential harm.

But so far, it seems that there is no department responsible for children's safety in school? (Apart from the BOM)

I'm surprised that the parents are sending their children in if there are so many dangerous hazards about........some members of the BOM are parents so must be hearing concerns bering discussed daily.

If it's that bad and dangerous then parents should not send their children in...........this would also ensure a meeting between parents & BOM & builders was held fairly quickly to resolve the matter.

If the teachers teaching in these prefabs also think it is so dangerous why are they not raising objections with BOM / contacting their union etc.?

It is the duty of the BOM to provide a safe place of work for all staff & pupils & parents.

lazygal

I would not send my child into a school I considered dangerous until the problem had been resolved. And I would inform the principal in writing to that effect.

hairyairyfairy

HSA contacted 6 weeks ago, still waiting inspection

Only one class/teacher involved and quotes "paperwork in order" irrespective of pointing out that she the only person who will be trying to manage 25 pupils if something's happens

Chairman of board refuses to meet with parents

Master refuses to move her, and if we pull her now, it is unlikely that she will be admitted in sept after the build

So back to the same question, when you cannot get any good out of the BOM, then who is in charge of the safety? And who are the BOM answerable to?

Bishop rep also claims it is not his responsibility

muckisluck

I would say the Health and Safety authority are your next port of call.

hairyairyfairy

muckisluck wrote: »

I would say the Health and Safety authority are your next port of call.

They were contacted 6 weeks ago, and again 3weeks ago, still waiting

HSA have very little to do with child safety. The legislation is health and safety and welfare AT WORK ie the teacher and builders are covered but the children are not, it is a grey area for them

And BOM have requirement for health and safety of employees, and visitors etc but only have to have regard for children!!

seavill

Few things. Firstly if you write correspondence to the secretary of the BOM (the principal) then he/she HAS to bring it to the attention of the next BOM meeting. Have you proof that it has not been discussed or are you just presuming it has not seen as there has been no action. Have your letters/concerned been directly to the principal or the secretary of the BOM. I know they are the same person but one has to go to BOM the other does not.

Secondly the the legislation covers the teacher at work as you say, the teacher is in the same room as the kids so without naming them the legislation covers them in an indirect way. If the act declares the teacher safe in work then the kids would be declared safe legally, irrespective of the parents opinion.

You are wrong in some of the things you are saying. The BOM are responsible for teh teachers and kids in a school not just the teachers and visitors. Where did you get this notion?

The HSA is nothing to do with children specifically but they have a responsibility to make sure a building site is safe. So again they are responsible in an indirect way.
I can't believe these serious concerns have been raised twice in 6 weeks and not one person has come out to inspect the site.
From my reading of what you are saying that the builders have to hold up the hoardings when ye walk past so they don't fall over in the path to the classroom door. How do they not fall over the rest of the day?
Have you taken photos of this gauntlet that you have to walk every day? Surely photos attached to any letter/email to the HSA would back up your claims, the same with the crane going over head.
Not technically responsible but a government minister/TD would be my next port of call if everything you say is correct and you are getting no joy anywhere else. Again I would include all photos and copies of emails/letters to and from the HSA and BOM.

The reality of the situation to me would be would I want my child attending that school. Next September is irrelevant. The school cannot kick your child out next September for being absent for part of this year. If you are genuinely this concerned I have no idea why you keep sending your child daily. That part baffles me more than anything else to be honest.

Obviously the local paper might be another avenue, they would love a bit of action like this and would see action taken if all is out of line.

The biggest thing for me is that you must keep everything completely factual, no exaggerating or additions or fancy terms to make it sound melodramatic, if you want the BOM/HSA/Papers/TD to help everything needs to be bang on (I'm not saying you are exaggerating I'm just making a point)

J.R.

Guidelines on Managing
Safety, Health and Welfare
in Primary Schools

In Ireland, the board of management as employer, is responsible for ensuring as far as reasonably practicable,
the safety, health and welfare at work of its employees and the safety, health and welfare of those who are in
anyway affected by the work activities of the school.
The board of management may delegate duties to employees to act on its behalf. Principals, deputy principals,
teachers and others may assume general and specific roles for managing day-to-day safety, health and welfare
in the school as the board of management sees fit. However ultimate responsibility for safety, health and welfare
lies with the board of management.

http://www.hsa.ie/eng/Education/Guidelines_on_Managing_Safety_Health_and_Welfare_in_Primary_Schools.pdf

koriko

Ring the DES

byhookorbycrook

koriko wrote: »

Ring the DES

The DES will simply refer the OP back to the BOM.

J.R.

Get the parents association to arrange a meeting with BOM

If not satisfactory then contact CPSMA
http://cpsma.ie/

http://www.education.ie/en/Schools-Colleges/Information/Boards-of-Management/Boards-of-Management-of-National-Schools-Constitution-of-Boards-and-Rules-of-Procedure-2011.pdf

Page 18
(c) The Board, at the closure of each Board meeting shall determine the
information to be conveyed to parents, school staff and the school community,
and the manner and terms in which it should be conveyed and by whom. An
agreed report should be drawn up for this purpose. The agreed report shall not
include details of any issues which must remain confidential to Board
members. Such issues should be clearly identified and members must be
notified of their obligations in respect of the confidentiality requirements under
Section 8 above.

Note: In authorising the dissemination of information under (c) above, the Board
shall pursue a policy of openness and have a positive approach to sharing
information with the school community. The provisions of 8(a) above
regarding confidentiality need not necessarily conflict with the operation of
such a policy; the provisions of 8 above are intended to protect against
inappropriate disclosure rather than to obstruct good communications and
transparency.

muckisluck

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

The DES will simply refer the OP back to the BOM.

If contacting the DES make it quite clear that you have exhausted all the correct channels in bringing it to the Boards attention already. That way you should not get the above reply. I must say I find everything you describe about this situation bizarre.

slarkin123

Do you know who the health and safety officer is for the school? Can you contact him/her directly. If you're getting no luck from writing to the board I would be getting some parents and meeting them at the door for their next meeting. This is totally unacceptable to be putting children in danger like that.

seavill

slarkin123 wrote: »

Do you know who the health and safety officer is for the school? Can you contact him/her directly. If you're getting no luck from writing to the board I would be getting some parents and meeting them at the door for their next meeting. This is totally unacceptable to be putting children in danger like that.

Do not do this!
It will be unsuccessful and unhelpful.

As I suggested write to the Principal as Secretary of the board but address it to "The Secretary of BOM, X school" and in your letter request that it is brought to the attention of the board. Request a meeting if you wish with the board but don't just show up unannounced

nickig

BOM are responsible for the safety and care of all pupils in the school.
Write a formal letter addressed to the Chairperson of the BOM outlining your concerns.
If a formal complaint is made it has to at least be discussed at a BOM meeting.