Prolonged chronic fatigue - general causes?

Under_Graduate

Not looking for a direct diagnosis.
Just general discussion surrounding the topic.

I really ask as, looking at it from the psychiatric point of view, I'm being potential autsim and/or personality disorder.

Depression has kind of been ruled out, as I don't present as being the least bit depressed.
And I only get anxious when I think about my life and how many unproductive years have gone by because of the fatigue (part time work, a lot of sitting around etc), so I can't attribute it to anxiety either, as I don't feel anxious regularly.

But I do have sleep issues, as in I get about 3 to 4 hours a night, and I'm basically unable to function on any productive level (I'm talking about, even a 30 minute walk), all day every day.


I have been looking into thyroid issues lately, and been directed toward the website stopthethyroidmadness.com

It seems to stress how GP's generally only look at TSH values in blood results, where as free T3, or lack thereof, can often be the root cause.

Well I got that blood test taken, and it will be about 2 weeks before the results get back.


One curious thing was that my Cortisol levels from my blood tests came back double the upper end of the normal range.
And my TSH came back at double also.

That website seemed to suggest that this can often be as a result of lwo T3 levels, and the body's attempt to compensate for that.

Anyways, once again, no diagnosis - just a discussion.

Greenmachine

Under_Graduate wrote: »

Not looking for a direct diagnosis.
Just general discussion surrounding the topic.

I really ask as, looking at it from the psychiatric point of view, I'm being potential autsim and/or personality disorder.

Depression has kind of been ruled out, as I don't present as being the least bit depressed.
And I only get anxious when I think about my life and how many unproductive years have gone by because of the fatigue (part time work, a lot of sitting around etc), so I can't attribute it to anxiety either, as I don't feel anxious regularly.

But I do have sleep issues, as in I get about 3 to 4 hours a night, and I'm basically unable to function on any productive level (I'm talking about, even a 30 minute walk), all day every day.


I have been looking into thyroid issues lately, and been directed toward the website stopthethyroidmadness.com

It seems to stress how GP's generally only look at TSH values in blood results, where as free T3, or lack thereof, can often be the root cause.

Well I got that blood test taken, and it will be about 2 weeks before the results get back.


One curious thing was that my Cortisol levels from my blood tests came back double the upper end of the normal range.
And my TSH came back at double also.

That website seemed to suggest that this can often be as a result of lwo T3 levels, and the body's attempt to compensate for that.

Anyways, once again, no diagnosis - just a discussion.

Chronic fatigue surely indicates in it prolonged, otherwise it would be acute fatigue.

Under_Graduate

Alrighty.

So, in terms of potential causes?
Generally?

Under_Graduate

A cause could considered to be depression, right?

Generally.

But when people have depression, I mean, they might be slow functioning - but completely drained/fatigued?

scrimshanker

I was chronically fatigued and it turned out I had all but used up my body's entire reserves of B12. The nurse actually asked how I was still standing when she saw my B12 levels in the blood test results. Few injections later and I was fine!

z0oT

I would say anything fatigue related can be 100% fixed by diet.

Questions I'd be asking are:

* How much dairy/gluten do you consume? You could have a food allergy to them, it's more common than you might think.

* How much good healthy fats do you consume?

* Do you drink a lot of alcohol?

* Do you eat a lot of processed foods?

* What's your consumption of fruit/vegetables like?

* How much caffeine do you consume?

* Are you getting enough good protein throughout the day?

I would never claim to be an expert, but although I've never suffered with chronic fatigue; I have noticed my energy levels improve dramatically after dietary changes. One in particular was a higher consumption of healthy fats.

Under_Graduate

Good call on the diets, but I've tried every diet under the sun.
I'm mainly on an Atkins variation.
Not about fatigue, but I used to train semi-pro thai boxing and mma, back when I wasn't a walking zombie, so I used to play with all the diet variations.


It was mentioned to me that Post Traumatic Stress Disorder can often give rise to these exact symptoms; chronic fatigue with insomnia, lethargy, loss of concentration, social withdrawal.

I've never been in the army, but that's still regarded as a psychological condition, right?

So it IS possible that a psychological condition could be causing this?

scrimshanker

If you've been through a traumatic event, yeah. Have the basics been done, like checking your B12 and hormone levels? I'd wait on all your blood tests to come back, though, without them you're shooting in the dark.

delthedriver

Under_Graduate wrote: »

Not looking for a direct diagnosis.
Just general discussion surrounding the topic.

I really ask as, looking at it from the psychiatric point of view, I'm being potential autsim and/or personality disorder.

Depression has kind of been ruled out, as I don't present as being the least bit depressed.
And I only get anxious when I think about my life and how many unproductive years have gone by because of the fatigue (part time work, a lot of sitting around etc), so I can't attribute it to anxiety either, as I don't feel anxious regularly.

But I do have sleep issues, as in I get about 3 to 4 hours a night, and I'm basically unable to function on any productive level (I'm talking about, even a 30 minute walk), all day every day.


I have been looking into thyroid issues lately, and been directed toward the website stopthethyroidmadness.com

It seems to stress how GP's generally only look at TSH values in blood results, where as free T3, or lack thereof, can often be the root cause.

Well I got that blood test taken, and it will be about 2 weeks before the results get back.


One curious thing was that my Cortisol levels from my blood tests came back double the upper end of the normal range.
And my TSH came back at double also.

That website seemed to suggest that this can often be as a result of lwo T3 levels, and the body's attempt to compensate for that.

Anyways, once again, no diagnosis - just a discussion.

I do not wish to diagnose or give medical advice.

The issue may be quite simple, diet, exercise or lack thereof ?

Perhaps you have a vitamin deficiency? Perhaps you need to drink more water?

My OH has Crohn's and LUPUS, chronic tiredness is one on the may symptoms.

Now before you start Googling these issues, it may be better to wait on the results of your blood tests. Some medication, change of diet and drinking more water can help rejuvenate the body in a few weeks.

Stay calm, I know it is freezing out there and many of us have not been training since Christmas, I know for one I have put on a few pounds, and have not been walking or cycling. As a result I find it harder to sleep because by body is not sufficiently tired.

Try a few Mindfulness Exercises, you will find oodles of info on Google,

Most important of all, be kind to yourself !:)

Under_Graduate

scrimshanker wrote: »

If you've been through a traumatic event, yeah. Have the basics been done, like checking your B12 and hormone levels? I'd wait on all your blood tests to come back, though, without them you're shooting in the dark.

B12 came back good.

Waiting on the rest of the hormone tests.
Should have them Monday.

My GP is garbage.
I had to go to another clinic and bluff my attending a specialist to get their nurse to take the hormone tests cause my own GP was basically dismissive when I requested them from him.
It seems GP's take the attitude, "not hormones - go see a shrink".

I mean, what the hell - it's my health at the end of the day, I gotta do what I gotta do.

northgirl

Under_Graduate wrote: »

B12 came back good.

Waiting on the rest of the hormone tests.
Should have them Monday.

My GP is garbage.
I had to go to another clinic and bluff my attending a specialist to get their nurse to take the hormone tests cause my own GP was basically dismissive when I requested them from him.
It seems GP's take the attitude, "not hormones - go see a shrink".

I mean, what the hell - it's my health at the end of the day, I gotta do what I gotta do.

Did you get any results on the hormone tests? In a similar situation - changing GP soon hopefully - at breaking point..

Under_Graduate

northgirl wrote: »

Did you get any results on the hormone tests? In a similar situation - changing GP soon hopefully - at breaking point..

Got results.

All came back good.

I spoke to my doc about getting on stimulants for energy.

He built me up to 20 mg Ritalin.
Total life saver.

Other stimulants like Adderall (dextroamphetamine) are better, but not licensed in Ireland.
A consultant can prescribe them.

I have a meeting with my endo in 2 weeks, and am going to ask her to prescribe Adderall.


Also - I went on the roundabout of anti-depressants.

Mirtazipine works good for me.
It does seem to have restored my functionality a little.

So the cause of my fatigue, may be a brain chemical imbalance.


My approach was - try every damn thing under the sun.
Research research research.

I'm far from 100%, but I'm a hell of a lot better than I was when I made this thread.

mille100piedi

Under_Graduate wrote: »

Got results.

All came back good.

I spoke to my doc about getting on stimulants for energy.

He built me up to 20 mg Ritalin.
Total life saver.

Other stimulants like Adderall (dextroamphetamine) are better, but not licensed in Ireland.
A consultant can prescribe them.

I have a meeting with my endo in 2 weeks, and am going to ask her to prescribe Adderall.


Also - I went on the roundabout of anti-depressants.

Mirtazipine works good for me.
It does seem to have restored my functionality a little.

So the cause of my fatigue, may be a brain chemical imbalance.


My approach was - try every damn thing under the sun.
Research research research.

I'm far from 100%, but I'm a hell of a lot better than I was when I made this thread.

there are many conditions that cause chronic fatigue, most of the time if doctors don't find a common cause they will tell you that you are depressed or stressed. My chronic fatigue is due to a genetic metabolic disorder, maybe it is a mitochondrial disorder I am still waiting for the result of my DNA sample I sent to a lab in USA. Of course if I take Adderall my energy level will improve because it is a stimulant, but this would not explain the cause of my lack of energy. The approach of most of the doctors is to address the consequences of an health issue with drugs instead to research the cause.

Graces7

mille100piedi wrote: »

there are many conditions that cause chronic fatigue, most of the time if doctors don't find a common cause they will tell you that you are depressed or stressed. My chronic fatigue is due to a genetic metabolic disorder, maybe it is a mitochondrial disorder I am still waiting for the result of my DNA sample I sent to a lab in USA. Of course if I take Adderall my energy level will improve because it is a stimulant, but this would not explain the cause of my lack of energy. The approach of most of the doctors is to address the consequences of an health issue with drugs instead to research the cause.

read articles online by dr MYHIL re M.E and mitochondrial failure. I was diagnosed with M.E at consultant level after 30 years of what you are seeking.. Was amazed at some of it; I have always had measurably erratic blood sugar levels which fits his research and a love of caffeine.. Good luck with it; I live within it and rely not on meds but that is my personal choice after decades of the wrong meds

misstearheus

Am soooooooooooo un-believably tired right now it's freaking insane! I can't seem to just sit at all anymore without my eyes closing anymore it's madness! Have had a really bad spell of it lately and then one day I felt reasonably in good energy and thought I had come out of it, but all this week it's back to the same ole' thing. If I get out of the bed at all and and try sit up even for just a couple of hours change-of-scenery lol I'm just hanging with the sleep/tired-ness. It's the pits so it is. It really is. I've been trying my damnedest to keep to strict daily routine get up early and go to bed early, do wake up a couple of times in the middle of the night but aside from that I try and stick to routine of going to bed early and getting up early. But it just does nothing. I just can't seem to sit at all now without wanting to close my eyes and sleep!! Could also easily sleep through a couple of days but usually that doesn't seem to do any good for me either.

Such a hellish nightmare to have to live in. Everything is starting to get sore now too, backs of shoulders and all down my sides etc.... I want to have a shower and put down a fire and cook dinner. I've loads of other stuff to do too to keep busy not to mention just chill-out things so it would be so nice to stay awake like! But it just ain't happenin! I'll probably just have to give in and go to bed. There just isn't enough motivation and stern talking-to-myself available in the world to make me stay up sometimes it's just gone beyond a joke!

I would like to to go for an hour's nap now or maybe 2 hours and get up and do stuff then for a few hours hopefully being a bit more awake, butttt if I go nap now I mightn't wake until tomorrow noon. I might wake at 2am and be lively enough to put in a few hours of awake time, butttt I need it to be the other way around!! I need to be awake now and getting sleepy at 2am lol. It's so frustrating lol. I would really love to be able to go to sleep when I want and need to sleep and for waking-time to be an acceptable time to be up and doing things! It would really make things more bearable and life more livable!!

Doctor did give me Lyrica to take but I took them for a couple of days and turned into a complete and utter Zombie-fest. I definitely wouldn't be able to drive while taking them. And that's grand if ya were living in a Centre Centre and didn't need to drive and could hop on a bus and take yer pick from plenty of available bus services, but not a good idea if car is yer mode of transport in case you need to drive somewhere in an emergency or may have places to go to. My heart is racing now too as well as everything being sore. Great. :rolleyes: I'm wondering should I take some Lyrica now but I may not wake for about 4 days if I do!! Ah it's all fun n' games!

I need to sleep when I need to sleep and that's all there is to it really. I need to try and be awake during the day lol 'cos well it's just the done thing lol and I would feel bad/guilty/lazy sleeping through the day, and when I'm not asleep I need to be able to utilize that small miniscule window of time of managing to keep my eyes open the best I can in order to be productive, and try to do so at a time of day that it's an acceptable time for a person to be awake and up n' about and doing things!! Grrrrr how can I make it all work out!! Gahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh what's the point!!! ;(

mynameis905

Under_Graduate wrote: »

I really ask as, looking at it from the psychiatric point of view, I'm being potential autsim or personality disorder.

Depression has kind of been ruled out, as I don't present as being the least bit depressed.
And I only get anxious when I think about my life and how many unproductive years have gone by because of the fatigue (part time work, a lot of sitting around etc), so I can't attribute it to anxiety either, as I don't feel anxious regularly.

But I do have sleep issues, as in I get about 3 to 4 hours a night, and I'm basically unable to function on any productive level (I'm talking about, even a 30 minute walk), all day every day.


I have been looking into thyroid issues lately, and been directed toward the website stopthethyroidmadness.com

It seems to stress how GP's generally only look at TSH values in blood results, where as free T3, or lack thereof, can often be the root cause.

Well I got that blood test taken, and it will be about 2 weeks before the results get back.


One curious thing was that my Cortisol levels from my blood tests came back double the upper end of the normal range.
And my TSH came back at double also.

That website seemed to suggest that this can often be as a result of lwo T3 levels, and the body's attempt to compensate for that.

Anyways, once again, no diagnosis - just a discussion.

Under_Graduate wrote: »

A cause could considered to be depression, right?

Generally.

But when people have depression, I mean, they might be slow functioning - but completely drained/fatigued?

Under_Graduate wrote: »

Good call on the diets, but I've tried every diet under the sun.
I'm mainly on an Atkins variation.
Not about fatigue, but I used to train semi-pro thai boxing and mma, back when I wasn't a walking zombie, so I used to play with all the diet variations.


It was mentioned to me that Post Traumatic Stress Disorder can often give rise to these exact symptoms; chronic fatigue with insomnia, lethargy, loss of concentration, social withdrawal.

I've never been in the army, but that's still regarded as a psychological condition, right?

So it IS possible that a psychological condition could be causing this?

Under_Graduate wrote: »

B12 came back good.

Waiting on the rest of the hormone tests.
Should have them Monday.

My GP is garbage.
I had to go to another clinic and bluff my attending a specialist to get their nurse to take the hormone tests cause my own GP was basically dismissive when I requested them from him.
It seems GP's take the attitude, "not hormones - go see a shrink".

I mean, what the hell - it's my health at the end of the day, I gotta do what I gotta do.

Under_Graduate wrote: »

Got results.

All came back good.

I spoke to my doc about getting on stimulants for energy.

He built me up to 20 mg Ritalin.
Total life saver.

Other stimulants like Adderall (dextroamphetamine) are better, but not licensed in Ireland.
A consultant can prescribe them.

I have a meeting with my endo in 2 weeks, and am going to ask her to prescribe Adderall.


Also - I went on the roundabout of anti-depressants.

Mirtazipine works good for me.
It does seem to have restored my functionality a little.

So the cause of my fatigue, may be a brain chemical imbalance.


My approach was - try every damn thing under the sun.
Research research research.

I'm far from 100%, but I'm a hell of a lot better than I was when I made this thread.

Have you considered that you might have depression/anxiety/health anxiety or one of the somatoform disorders?

Sleep problems, fatigue, low energy are extremely common with any of the above. I've experienced it myself many, many times.

The endless pushing for tests, seeing different doctors, self-diagnosing, worrying about hormone levels and reading dubious websites about conditions that you probably don't have are classic, textbook hypochondria symptoms.

You mentioned your GP asked you to 'see a shrink' - have you considered seeing a psychiatrist? By your own admission you improved while on mirtazapine - shouldn't this be at least giving you a clue that most of these issues have a psychological cause?

I should also point out that just because the root cause here may be psychological, it doesn't mean that the symptoms are in any way not real. Have a read of Dr. Suzanne O'Sullivan if you want to get an idea of just how much physical distress the mind can cause.

If I was to give you some suggestions:

- Stop reading about illness.

It's a dead end street and a preoccupation that you need to break. I know what you're going through and it might seem counter-intuitive, but the more you obsess and the more reading/research you do the worse the eventual outcome is going to be. You've gone beyond the realm of being an informed and educated patient at this stage. It's extremely common for doctors to suffer symptoms of the illnesses they're studying so you can imagine the effect of this on a lay person.

- Ask your GP for a referral to a really good psychiatrist.

- Look into doing a course in CBT with a psychologist.

- Ditch the Atkins diet. Your body needs carbohydrates to function.

- You mentioned you used to exercise. Try to gradually get back into it, slowly at first and then gradually increasing the intensity.

Good luck and I hope you get better.

mille100piedi

Graces7 wrote: »

read articles online by dr MYHIL re M.E and mitochondrial failure. I was diagnosed with M.E at consultant level after 30 years of what you are seeking.. Was amazed at some of it; I have always had measurably erratic blood sugar levels which fits his research and a love of caffeine.. Good luck with it; I live within it and rely not on meds but that is my personal choice after decades of the wrong meds

unfortunately ME is not a diagnosis, as a matter of fact they don't have a clue what is causing ME and probably most of the doctors (a part dr myhil) don't really care. So they just put a label to patients that suffer with chronic disease and they don't know the cause. Many ME patients after years discover they have lyme disease or other disorders.
I never took any type of meds for my condition because there are none. But I am lucky to understand what is good for my health and what will cause an energy crash

kangaroo

mille100piedi wrote: »

unfortunately ME is not a diagnosis, as a matter of fact they don't have a clue what is causing ME and probably most of the doctors (a part dr myhil) don't really care. So they just put a label to patients that suffer with chronic disease and they don't know the cause. Many ME patients after years discover they have lyme disease or other disorders.

Just because some people can end up gets diagnosed with something else and just because the diagnosis may be given incorrectly by some doctors, doesn't mean that ME doesn't exist. Groups of patients who have had infections have been followed and a common ME-type group has been found.

Also, not all Lyme diagnoses are necessarily correct. There is a lot of controversy about certain laboratories.

Just because medicine doesn't know the cause of the condition, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Medicine doesn't fully understand a lot of conditions.

mille100piedi

kangaroo wrote: »

Just because some people can end up gets diagnosed with something else and just because the diagnosis may be given incorrectly by some doctors, doesn't mean that ME doesn't exist. Groups of patients who have had infections have been followed and a common ME-type group has been found.

Also, not all Lyme diagnoses are necessarily correct. There is a lot of controversy about certain laboratories.

Just because medicine doesn't know the cause of the condition, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Medicine doesn't fully understand a lot of conditions.

I never said that ME doesn't exist, I just said that they don't know the causes. Does this mean to you that ME doesn't exist? I know that medicine doesn't fully understand most of the human disorders, but if the patients are not getting any tests it is obvious that it would more difficult to understand what is wrong. And it easy to say to a patient he has ME when there is no test results as a proof. And what if the patient has something else? If the patient is happy with the diagnosis it is ok, I was not happy and I made a lot of research and spent 7 years looking for a diagnosis and my chronic fatigue is due to a mutation in a muscles gene found during a whole exome sequencing. Most of the doctors that give a diagnosis of ME are not experts in genetics and don't really have a clue. I have a much better knowledge about genetic disorders now than the specialist that visited me. And I am glad I didn't take any drugs they prescribed me, because they would have make worse my condition. I was not happy with ME diagnosis, but if somebody else is happy and doesn't want to look further fair enough.