Audi V BMW diesel cars

v240gltse

hi all

I know i may open up a long debate but my son is looking to buy either an Audi A4/A6 (1.9 or 2.0 ) or a BMW 5 series (2.0) both diesels and both in the 2003 -> 2005 reg range.

I have read on honestjohn.co.uk that the audi diesels seem to give a lot of issues regarding the oil pump mechanism breaking and resulting in a bust engine whereas the BMW diesel has the swirl flap issues as well as the DPF and cat may need replacing at 110K miles.

so anyone have personel expierence of either makes and anything else he needs to look out for ?.

I know that each make could be good once its maintained properly/regularly but with so many of the ones up for sale having high mileages these steps may have been skipped or missed.

tia

brendan

Rob Thomas

I'd be a little biased here because I have a B6 A4 1.9 which I have owned for 9 years and put 160k miles up on. It's the best car I've ever owned. Apart from the usual servicing and tyres etc. I've never put anything major into it.

The early (05+) 2.0s seem to have caused no end of trouble, DM etc.

I have friends who have BMWs of a similar age and the running costs, stuff going wrong etc seems to be much higher than I have experienced. But they assure me, the driving experience is better, if that matters.

There is a reason 1.9 A4s are holding value, it's because they are an excellent car. There are plenty about too so it's possible to be choosy. A service record is important because you won't get one of the age you are looking at with low mileage. They were popular because they are economical so appealed to those doing heavy road.

Both models are relatively expensive though for 10+ year old cars. you might get better value in other marques if your budget is limited. For example, he could pick up a newer 1.9 Passat or Leon. The Passat in particular from 02-05 is a good, safe car and cheap to run.

Stallingrad

Its all about the service history with the cars you are looking at. The more complete the better. I would rate the BMW higher, and being the pre Efficient Dynamics model it is also a more reliable then the ED models. Blanking swirl flaps is cheap and easy, but if the car has not had turbo issues already that could be a cost coming down the line.

Auto suits the car better than the manual too, and M-sport models are always more desirable, if not as comfortable as SE versions.

There is always the possibility of big bills with cars of this age, if your son goes in with his eyes open, does his research, and can afford the occasional big bill then he should be fine.

The12thMan

diesel cars issues usually arise out of HOW they are driven.

city driving no good etc...

i also had a B6 A4 1.9, bulletproof the B7 1.9 tdi 140bhp model is also very good.

bazz26

The 2.0d didn't appear in the 5 Series until 2005, up to that point they would have been 2.5 or 3.0 litre. The BMW 2.0d has some well documented issues with swirl flaps and turbo problems. Both can easily be managed however by having the swirl flaps replaced with blanks and the turbo breather filter replaced every 2nd or 3rd oil service. I'd imagine most if not all would have had these changed at this stage or would have already caused problems at this stage.

The Audi or VAG TDi engines have been around longer so the technology is generally less complex. The 1.9 TDi would probably be more reliable than the BMW's engine but it's less refined and it has a narrower power band. 2.0 TDi is a cousin of the 1.9 but they tend to be less reliable. Injectors gave problems but VAG replaced these under warranty. The oil pump balance shaft also gave problems and certain versions of the 2.0 TDi but again preventative work done can avoid catastrophic trouble.

Which one to go for is really down to the individual but all I'll say is find the best and cleanest example of either which is getting harder as they get older.

cadaliac

You really should consider different makes of cars also.
Those two diesels were plagued with issues - most of which were mentioned above.
All of which are expensive iirc.
Would petrol equivalents be on the cards at all?

v240gltse

hi

my own prefernce is for petrol but he is hell bent on getting a diesel due to possible savings and yes i have had the discussion regarding the required mileage to make a saving but sadly its falling on deaf ears. ( wisdom its wasted on youth ha ha ) .

He currently has a 2001 A6 1.8t which is a cracker of a car but he's got the itch to change to a diesel

Brendan

cadaliac wrote: »

You really should consider different makes of cars also.
Those two diesels were plagued with issues - most of which were mentioned above.
All of which are expensive iirc.
Would petrol equivalents be on the cards at all?

9935452

v240gltse wrote: »

hi all

I know i may open up a long debate but my son is looking to buy either an Audi A4/A6 (1.9 or 2.0 ) or a BMW 5 series (2.0) both diesels and both in the 2003 -> 2005 reg range.

I have read on honestjohn.co.uk that the audi diesels seem to give a lot of issues regarding the oil pump mechanism breaking and resulting in a bust engine whereas the BMW diesel has the swirl flap issues as well as the DPF and cat may need replacing at 110K miles.

so anyone have personel expierence of either makes and anything else he needs to look out for ?.

I know that each make could be good once its maintained properly/regularly but with so many of the ones up for sale having high mileages these steps may have been skipped or missed.

tia

brendan

on the audi front if the budget is for a 2000-2005 car definately go for the 1.9 over the 2.0tdi. Its the early ones that gave all the bother, oil pump trouble , injector trouble. At this stage the 1.9 engine was in cars since the early 90s and was fairly bullit proof.
Regarding dual mass flywheels, as my mechanic says all diesel cars have them now, its just an expensive clutch you are changing

MetzgerMeister

v240gltse wrote: »

my own prefernce is for petrol but he is hell bent on getting a diesel due to possible savings

The diesel would be more expensive to buy in most cases along with being more expensive to maintain and there's a bigger chance of the diesel having the documented issues as above whereas the petrol model doesn't have a DPF or the M47 engine which has the timing chain issue.

Where's the possible saving there? There's more chance of possible expense than anything.

bazz26

Very few people look or want to see the bigger picture when it comes to buying, they tend to only look for the big headline grabbing savings which is enough to justify their decision.

gctest50

bazz26 wrote: »

Very few people look or want to see the bigger picture when it comes to buying, they tend to only look for the big headline grabbing savings which is enough to justify their decision.

or they feel they have to provide an excuse just for buying a new car

you'd have to wonder wtf they were thinking with the oil pump drive - looks like something you'd make at 8 in the evening out of stuff you got in the hardware section of BnQ

these might be handy to someone :

monseiur

I would highly recommend the Audi A4, if you can get your hands on a B6 1.9 TDI with AVB engine - they are bullet proof and misers on diesel, from 45 to 55 mpg no problem. Loads of top quality, well maintained, models available in UK, check Auto Trader or similar, but the Euro has lost a lot of it's value against the Pound lately (Approx. €1.32) so it may be more economical to shop local ! Don't be put off by high mileage, if the car is will maintained, with service record etc. the engine mentioned above can clock 350,000 no problem.
The only downside is the cost of road tax - almost €700 !
Re. BMW - I have heard some horror stories from work colleagues, friends etc., would not touch them.

M.

littlevillage

My opinion.

Unless he is buying a 2008 or later car .. Diesel doesn't make sense unless he is a very high miler.

The Road tax changes in (2008) made diesel cars much cheaper to tax and hence now something like 3/4 of all new cars are diesel. But Car dealers being car dealers, Diesels 'immediately' got much more expensive than the petrol equivalent :-(

If he is going pre-2008, then the smart money is going into high spec, low mileage petrol cars .. for tiddly money.
Just try to manage them fuel bills ... and you'll be laughing your a** off as you waft past your diesel buddies in their big clouds of smoke.

There's a very busy thread on here, discussing this very phenomenon

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057197301

Rowley Birkin QC

This is a change from the usual; a father trying to convince the son to stay away from diesel.

bcmf

1.9tdi.
Had one in a seat Alhambra and just parked up an Audi A4.
Bar high mileage consumables and expected repairs I had little or no engine trouble or electrical from either.
The electrics died in the Seat after 200km hard miles.
The Audi is sitting in work and due a timing belt and nct with 190km on the clock and barely a squeek from the engine.

v240gltse

hi Rowley

yes that is true, leaving my own personel prejudices ( against diesel ) aside , he honestly doesnt do anywhere near the mileage thats required to make a diesel viable but all he sees is the preceived benefits of not filling up that often and all thats really required is a lighter right foot ha ha .

ah maybe one day

Rowley Birkin QC wrote: »

This is a change from the usual; a father trying to convince the son to stay away from diesel.

Caliden

Ask yourself the question, where it comes to servicing the car or replacing anything caused by low milage trips who is going to foot the bill?

corcaigh1

I'm currently driving a tdi audi a4 sport s-line b6 130bhp 6-speed with 142k genuine miles. It was originally imported from the uk and is not modified with those daft looking kits with twin exhausts etc, the car already looks well with the standard factory sport trim.

The car has caused me no major problems whatsoever in nearly two years of ownership, absolutely love it and plan to keep her another few years. Only small issue is slight rust on the front wings which I will get sorted and Id also like to remap to 170bhp. Motor tax is costly at 673 but its a small price to pay for comfort and reliability in my opinion. Seems newer diesels are dogged with reliability issues.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

cadaliac

bcmf wrote: »

1.9tdi.
Had one in a seat Alhambra and just parked up an Audi A4.
Bar high mileage consumables and expected repairs I had little or no engine trouble or electrical from either.
The electrics died in the Seat after 200km hard miles.
The Audi is sitting in work and due a timing belt and nct with 190km on the clock and barely a squeek from the engine.

To be honest - that is not big mileage. 200,000 km is 120,000 miles. Hard miles? Do you mean no servicing? Or, do you mean fast driving?
I have bought cars (petrol ones) with more miles on the clock than that, without squeaks and issues.
I have also driven (and owned) diesel cars with near double that mileage. So to be "parking up" a diesel with less that 130,000 miles is either reckless or just a bad car.
Surely electronics can be fixed, no? CPU maybe? That's not the same as "electrics dieing"

PauloMN

v240gltse wrote: »

hi

my own prefernce is for petrol but he is hell bent on getting a diesel due to possible savings and yes i have had the discussion regarding the required mileage to make a saving but sadly its falling on deaf ears. ( wisdom its wasted on youth ha ha ) .

He currently has a 2001 A6 1.8t which is a cracker of a car but he's got the itch to change to a diesel

Brendan

Personally speaking, if he's currently in a 1.8T then I'd suggest he go for the 2.0TDi 140bhp rather than the 1.9TDi imo.

Fine engine aside from the oil pump issue, which once sorted, is not an issue. Either allow for the gear driven oil pump conversion and hardened balancer shaft or get proof it's been done and he won't have an issue. Had mine done a while back and it's running great. The BLB engines are one of the engine codes with chain driven oil pumps that should be modified.

Good thread about it here.

vectra

That model 520 is thirsty for a diesel.
Standard you would be lucky to see 39mpg on a long motorway run
DPF delete and a remap can up this to 50mpg on the same run.

As above,
Swirl flap removal and Turbo breather regular replacing is a must on these.

vectra

Did your son ever get sorted with this?