Draft Last 16: LuckyLloyd vs eagle eye

Frankie Lee

Poll will be added when both teams are up, but votes in the thread with a little reasoning will be the ones that count towards the winner.
Voting finishes 24 hours after the second player's team is announced.
Best of luck to both, it should be another good one.

Skylinehead

My XI: (My referring to Lloyd, not me :pac:)

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Friedel

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Arbeloa---Terry (C)---Walker

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Pearce

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Mascherano

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Ince

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Silva

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Beardsley

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Kewell

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Van Nisteelroy


Subs:

Berbatov
Kinkladze
Djorkaeff

I am very happy with the finished product. I think my team:

- is well balanced
- will be strong at setpieces
- has plenty of creativity
- has a clutch goalscorer to finish what we create

The spine of the team is very solid I think. Friedel / Terry / Walker are a very solid and dependable center back and keeper combination and will be excellently protected by Mascherano and Ince infront. Those two should establish a base of possession against the vast majority of opponents meaning Beardsley should be able to get on the ball and help present chances for Ruud and if Ruud gets a chance in the opposition box he'll generally score.

But the flanks of my team are very strong also. Pearce and Arbeloa are fullbacks who defend well but can get up the pitch to contribute to the attack also. I expect that with Ince and Mascherano winning the battle in the middle they will have chances to get up the pitch. Kewell and Silva provide pace and guile respectively and have the ability to come inside to link up with Beardsley and / or get down the line depending on the weaknesses of the opposition.

Being honest, I'm not hugely worried about tweaking things for specific opponents. Masch and Ince in the middle give me the confidence that I'll have a platform to inflict my game on opponents and the belief that I have enough quality to capatilise on the platform. I also have no worries about set pieces and don't feel I have a weak point in my backline or in terms of the structure of my team.

Finally, I think my team has the 'X Factor' of experience and big game ability throughout the eleven. Players like Terry / Pearce / Mascherano / Ince / Silva are tried and tested big game characters. And Beardsley and Van Nisteelroy just tended to product the goods consistently across a league season. If you want to make it a physical battle I'd fancy my players all day long and in a game of chess I think we have the solid structure and experience to grind it out and rely on the quality in the side.

Skylinehead

Hi,


Here is my team and synopsis.




Firstly I just want to wish LuckyLloyd the best of luck.

We'll start with my goalkeeper Edwin van der Sar better known as VDS. He is in the conversation for best goalkeeper of the Premier league era I think along with Schmeichel, Cech and Seaman. I've no issue here and have a great man who was brilliant at managing his area.

My full backs are Cesar Azpilicueta who I'm sure everybody knows and Irish international Stephen Carr who was twice selected for the PFA team of the year and also was twice Tottenham Hotspur player of the year. Again I think I'm very strong in this department.

My centre backs were a Premier league partnership who twice in their three most dominant years were the meanest defense in the Premier league between 1999 and 2001. Sami Hyypia needs no introduction and is imo one of the greatest centre backs in the history of the Premier league. Stephane Henchoz might be less well known to some but he was a fantastic player who was pivotal to Liverpool's cup treble in '00-01. I picked him because together these two guys were just exceptional.

My central midfielders are Didi Hamann who was one of greatest in that role in the Premier league, I also have my favourite player from my own club Tugay Kerimoglu who had great vision and passing as well as a great shot from distance. Alex Ferguson once said that Tugay would have been a Manchester United player if he was ten years younger, he was 36 at the time. And I've got Morgan Schneiderlin who for me has proven himself as the ultimate box to box midfielder in his two full seasons in the Premier league.

Up top I've got two fantastic attacking midfielders in Eden Hazard and Gareth Bale and ahead of them I've got Louis Suarez who showed himself as one of the best in the world in his three full seasons in the Premier league scoring 69 goals in 110 league games.

The intention with my set up is to battle to get the ball in midfield and then let my full backs go forward and assist the forwards with Hamann and Schneiderlin sitting deep enough to break up any attempts to counter.

On my opposition, I look at LuckyLloyd's team and see a great one at first glance but then when I think about it there are a couple of weaknesses.

Firstly he has the great John Terry(best centre back ever in EPL imo) and Des Walker.

Well both of those guys only ever played at LCB and I cannot see Des Walker ever play at RCB. He either played as the left centre back or else at international level on occasion at left full back. Also he was never elite in the Premier league imo. He was a great one in the late 80's and early 90's before he went to Italy but he was error prone after he came back and I see him as a big weakness in this team, especially if he is forced to play as RCB.

I love Brad Friedel as I'm a Blackburn Rovers fan and we had many great years with him as goalkeeper. He doesn't manage his area well though despite being a brilliant shot stopper. I don't think he ranks amongst the greats because of this. He was never great on crosses either.

The other thing about Lloyd's team is his two central midfielders. Paul Ince was a good one but the reason Alex Ferguson went out and got Roy Keane was to get somebody who didn't pass the ball backwards so much. Likewise Javier Mascherano was very similar while in the Premier league and passed the ball backwards more often than forwards. Please feel free to randomly google any game(not highlights) of either of these players and you'll see what I mean.

As a result of these weaknesses I can see my team winning this one by two goals. Mistakes will happen at the back and Hazard and Suarez will be there to punish them.
I can't see him getting out of his own half due to my defensive midfield.

Anyways I think I've said enough as you all watch enough football to make up your own minds.

May the best team win!

Skylinehead note: Two broken images at end of post here, one is a Boards 404, other is http://lineupbuilder.com/2014/custom/?sk=5q316, seems to be same as his formation anyway

Frankie Lee

Lloyd's team image. He might want to put a different shape on it himself.

#15

These were my two favourites to win the game after about 6 rounds of picks. Both players finished out the draft nicely. I think I will hold my thoughts on this match until other posters contribute, in case I am missing something.

Liam O

Both are strong in the other's weak spots, not sure if i can make a decision on this.

Donnielighto

LL for me. He dominates the midfield, ee's strengths around the park wouldnt be exploited enough and wouldnt be enough to win the game. 2-1

Frankie Lee

Although LuckyLloyd's team is very strong in this particular match up I can see eagle eye sneaking a 1-0 win with a bit of magic from either Bale or Suarez. Van Nistelrooy's record against Henchoz and Hyypia wasn't excellent with his only goal coming in a community shield game as far as I can see, Azpilcueta altough not the best left back in the tournament is made to deal with Silva while Carr can deal with Kewell. Beardsley won't have huge space to create anything with a crowded midfield. Schneiderlin wouldn't have struck me as someone who should be selected but he serves a function here. Tugay was quality and should provide the bit of service needed to the front 3. Van der Sar is the better keeper too. Set pieces break even.

IncognitoMan

Looking at the two set ups I think I'm going to have to give it to Eagle eye. The pace of his front 3 would be genuinely terrifying. As long as suarez doesn't have a melt down But in truth hazard, Suarez and Bale are some of the best players the league has had in their peak

LuckyLloyd is unlucky here because I think he did set up well to get the best out of van Nistelrooy which I think is something that can sometimes go unnoticed in these drafts. People pick on name and don't think about how they might actually play together.

One small change would have probably swayed my vote to you lloyd is if you had played silva in the middle with a pacy player to the right. I think it would have made a perfect forward 4

super_furry

LL might lack a little up front with just Van Nistelrooy, but that midfield. Macherano protecting the back four with Ince able to link up with Beardsley, Silva and Kewell - there's just goals from everywhere. Like the balance of Eagle Eye's side but don't think they can cope with that midfield.

bucketybuck

Random thoughts as I have them:

- Lloyd to win the midfield battle, Paul Ince was a fantastic player and will dominate in that area, Scheiderlin or Tugay just aren't in the same league.
- I may be in a minority, but I don't think Hazard is a PL legend, not yet. Like a few in this draft he is judged based on what he might achieve in the future.
- Is Bale on the right or in a free role? Is Silva on the right? I don't think these guys are at their best on the right, Silva especially.
- I do wonder how Terry would cope with Suarez, Bale and Hazard running at him, he isn't the quickest defender around.
- Des Walker was a top drawer defender, as was Staurt Pearce. Not a fan of Arbeloa at all though.
- Henchoz is one of the weakest picks in the draft.
- Beardsley, Silva and a fit Kewell providing assists for Van Nistlerooy? Thats football porn! Andy Cole got over 40 goals one season playing with Beardsely, that little guy was a magician.


After some thought, I going to vote for LuckyLloyd. He has the better defence, the better midfield, and even if some think Eagle-eye has the better attack Van Nistlerooy is still going to get goals. The front three for Eagle-eye
are undoubtedly dangerous, but history is full of dangerous attacks that never saw the ball all game.

menoscemo

Lloyd shades it on Defence and wins it the Midfeild clearly IMO, but EE's front 3 of Hazard, Bale and Suarez is the stuff of dreams. This one is very hard to Judge.
I'll give it to Lloyd by a hair, think EE has a few too many average players (Schneiderlinn, Henchoz, Tugay, and Carr) and even though I think his best ones are better, Lloyd has a slightly better balance.

Ferris_Bueller

I think LuckyLloyd will sneak this one. There's something about his team that makes me feel like he might struggle to score goals for some reason, but his defence and midfield is very solid so he shouldn't concede many either, eagle eyes front 3 are very good but all have had relatively short peaks in the league, his midfield is very weak IMO, Tugay and Schneiderlin are poor picks and both are starting in important positions, I think Ince & Mascherano would be well able to handle this midfield despite being outnumbered. Henchoz another dodgy pick there although Hyypia is good, full backs could be better but I think that could be said for almost every team in the draft.

Overall I think Lloyds team is stronger, has less obvious weak links and will be hard to break down even with Suarez, Bale & Hazard. I feel eagle eye is relying on them three way too much as outside of these (and VDS) the rest of his team is quite average, can see his midfield struggle big time and as a result I don't think he will get the ball up to his front three enough.

Lucas Hood

I have to ask Eagle eye why he picked Bale on the right wing when he has criticised a team for doing so in a previous draft
Bale didn't play another game in the premier league after that post.

keane2097

Lloyd edges this for me on the basis of a decently superior midfield.

eagle eye

Lucas Hood wrote: »

I have to ask Eagle eye why he picked Bale on the right wing when he has criticised a team for doing so in a previous draft
Bale didn't play another game in the premier league after that post.

Were you formally known as Jax Teller?

Anyways I've seen Bale play there quite a bit since that time so I am confident he can play there now. I hadn't seen him play much there when that draft occurred.

Lucas Hood

eagle eye wrote: »

Were you formally known as Jax Teller?

Anyways I've seen Bale play there quite a bit since that time so I am confident he can play there now. I hadn't seen him play much there when that draft occurred.

I was.
All games he's played since then are irrelevant in this though I thought?

eagle eye

One thing that surprises me is people saying that Lloyd's team will win the midfield battle.

Ince and Mascherano almost always looked sideways or backwards and spent most of their time passing the ball backwards. I just don't see how he beats my midfield with those two there. Defensively they are excellent but there isn't an ounce of creativity between the pair of them imo.

bucketybuck

eagle eye wrote: »

One thing that surprises me is people saying that Lloyd's team will win the midfield battle.

Ince and Mascherano almost always looked sideways or backwards and spent most of their time passing the ball backwards. I just don't see how he beats my midfield with those two there. Defensively they are excellent but there isn't an ounce of creativity between the pair of them imo.

Describing Paul Ince as looking sideways or backwards does him a great disservice, he was a massive influence driving forward in that great United team of the mid 90's.

keane2097

eagle eye wrote: »

One thing that surprises me is people saying that Lloyd's team will win the midfield battle.

Ince and Mascherano almost always looked sideways or backwards and spent most of their time passing the ball backwards. I just don't see how he beats my midfield with those two there. Defensively they are excellent but there isn't an ounce of creativity between the pair of them imo.

That's nonsense re: Ince IMO.

eagle eye

Lucas Hood wrote: »

I was.
All games he's played since then are irrelevant in this though I thought?

Well all I can say is that I'm happy with him starting there but he'd obviously have a free role in my team and will move about.

eagle eye

keane2097 wrote: »

That's nonsense re: Ince IMO.

I've seen well over one hundred games that he played in and people were always saying it. United fans, Liverpool fans didn't matter. When the team wasn't winning after an hour and the ball would come to Ince and he'd turn and pass it backwards and people would groan. It was a very regular occurrence.

bucketybuck

eagle eye wrote: »

I've seen well over one hundred games that he played in and people were always saying it. United fans, Liverpool fans didn't matter. When the team wasn't winning after an hour and the ball would come to Ince and he'd turn and pass it backwards and people would groan. It was a very regular occurrence.

No it wasn't, and I've watched a few games myself over the years.

Makelele scored 2 goals for Chelsea, Mascherano scored one for Liverpool, they were indeed safety first players. Paul Ince on the other hand had 25 goals for United and 72 in his career.

Chrissybhoy

I go with eagle eye. The one thing that glares out for me is the area where Beardsley Hamann and Scneiderlin is Along with them Silva will come in and try play in that pocket and crowd out the area. Arbeloa will get forward down the line with all that space Silva has left . That worrys me because he's very poor in them attacking positions his crossing is poor and he'll get caught on the ball. Hazard will beat him all day and with no winger to protect him plenty of play will come from that side. On the other side Pearce will do a little better with bale he'll try rough him up give away a few frees try disrupt his game but with Bales pace he'll get in. I think Terry and Walker will come out on top against Suarez and frustrate him. LL will get most of his joy with Kewell against Carr and Ruud will get a goal up against Henchoz and Hyppia. Overall Eagleeye for me with a bit to spare

SlickRic

it's very close IMO.

eagle eye is reliant on the speed and impact of his big front 3. Lloyd is reliant that his team can stay organised, solid and vary their attack enough so as EE doesn't become too comfortable in counter attack mode.

on the other hand, if Lloyd's left hand side can be negated, i think he could become very predictable. RVN thrives on a supply from out wide. he's all about instinct and hopping on a chance from 6 yards out. if Pearce and Kewell are out of the equation (which i don't necessarily think they will be with Hamann/Schneiderlin and Carr), then RVN becomes reliant on through balls from midfield, and it could get difficult.

but Ince, IMO, is the big difference here. the fact he can drive the team forward as part of a balanced midfield where Masch can sit, is key. it will give space to others, and perhaps most importantly, keep the opposition guessing as to the mode of attack.

honestly, i think if eagle eye came up against anyone else in this first round, he probably wins. but unfortunately he got Lloyd. too solid and balanced IMO.

1-0 or 2-1 Lloyd.

Magico Gonzalez

I think the combo of Beardsley and Van Nistelrooy are tailor made for each other. Beardsley is probably England's most under rated player for me. Ince and Mascherano are too quick and too physical for Didi and Tugay. Not sure I buy into to the Tugay love (unintended pun).

That said I think LL has holed himself beneath the water line by disconnecting that outstanding 9 & 10 combination from the rest of the team. Kewell is a massive question mark, at Leeds tremendous. After that, extremely average. Silva needs to be in a more influential role and there is wide player to guarantee service for the dutchman in the same way Giggs and Beckham did.

LL's back 4 are going to keep opportunities to a minimum, but at some stage someone is going to isolate Arbeloa and blow past him. That top 3 can operate fairly independently of each other. At some stage one of them is going to expliot the weak link and get past Arbeloa. I also think Butcher would struggle today, he was a great defender when crosses were raining in or runners coming head on with the ball. I think he'd have nightmares with that top 3, too quick, Suarez can play deep and drag him out of his comfort zone.

Am going for Eagle Eye, based on seeing the 1st 11's, if LL had shown his subs, pulled Kewell out, got Silva central and got 2 genuine wide players involved I would have definitely gone for him based on more solid mf and back 4.

Skylinehead

I'm going for Lloyd. Silva can drift inside to combine with Beardsley, Hamann was a good player but Schneiderlin isn't dealing with that. Van Nistelrooy will easily get enough service from that pair and a peak Harry Kewell (which is what we're going off, his post Leeds form is pretty irrelevant) was very, very good out wide. Eagle Eyes midfield isn't going to be able to deal with Beardsley, Silva, Mascherano and Ince. The latter two in particular is as solid as you get in this draft, and Ince drives on well enough to link the attack too. EEs front 3 is clearly his best bet, and they'll certainly get joy from Arbeloa, but John Terry is well capable of marshalling Suarez and added to the mentioned midfielders, it's too much. 3-1 Lloyd.

Winston Payne

LuckyLloyd takes this one. eagle eye has some fantastic players but I don't think it hangs together for him in this game.


LuckyLloyd's attack VS eagle eye's defence:
A great partnership at the heart of eagle eye's defence here. Don't think that's quite enough to keep LuckyLloyd out. Stephen Carr against a peak Kewell is not a duel I fancy Carr in. Kewell was fantastic for Leeds, he had pace, skill, shooting ability and was also able to come central and play passes in for other players. Not that he'd need to most of the time with Beardsley and Silva supporting the attack. I can see Kewell coming central, and quite high actually, with Pearce on the outside, and him and Van Nistelrooy's movement inside the box is danger. Kewell played as a second striker for Leeds the season before they went down, and he was dangerous there. Pearce crossing for Van Nistelrooy is a threat, albeit nothig will come easy against the two central defenders in there. LuckyLloyd scores at least one. Azpilicueta is a very solid full back but he won't have a direct opponent most of the time with Silva looking to come inside and service Van Nistelrooy or play one-twos with Beardlsey and then advance on the box himself.


The midfield battle:
Although he is down a man,I still think LuckyLloyd competes well in this area. Ince and Mascherano are very, very mobile and solid. Ince in United's first Double was a fantastic player, he could dribble, pass, tackle, shoot and he could run all day. He will come out on top against Schneiderlin. I can see a lot of eagle eye's play being lateral for long periods, there isn't a player that's going to carry the ball through the midfield among the unit he has in there. This suits LuckyLloyd down to the ground. You're then thinking that either Suarez has to come very deep, something that LuckyLloyd would also be comfortable with, or Tugay has to try and come right up the pitch and try and create something from an advanced area. Space for Silva to play in on the counter, and the Spaniard is actually pretty potent on the break.

eagle eye himself has admitted in this thread that Tugay's gifts lie on the ball, he was past thirty when he came to the league and he can't really be trusted to work back and cover, he wasn't that dynamic a player. I'm not sure he's a great fit with this midfield actually, it looks pretty one-paced and doesn't service the front three that easily for my money, either in terms of their abilities or with the cover they have to penetrate.

Hamann will sit deep and look after Beardsley, and that's a fascinating little duel. I do think with Ince giving Schneiderlin problems and Kewell also a threat on the break, that Hamann might not be able to keep with Beardsley a hundred per cent of the time.


eagle eye's attack VS LuckyLloyd's defence:
Des Walker is a weakness. Not just in terms of this draft, in general. If I wanted one player shouting at a worse one though, telling him where to go and where to stand it'd be John Terry. I think LuckyLloyd has covered for that weakness pretty well. Pearce lacks an edge of pace against Bale. Tackling fine, if it's a race in behind, trouble. Arbeloa looks to have been pretty underrated in the thread so far. He won't present any threat at all up the line, but facing a man one-on-one? He kept out Lionel Messi at the Nou Camp while out of position. He was very, very solid, and still is. Azpilicueta similarly offers a lack of penetration getting forward. Hazard has a real job to get past him. Suarez would have Mascherano keeping a close eye on him from one side, and John Terry bumping against him on the other. I would back John Terry model 05/06 to go against any striker you can name, and give them a real time of it. I think a clean sheet is on here for LuckyLloyd.


The balance of the game:
Possession would edge 45-55 in eagle eye's favour I reckon. This does not edge the game his favour. Suarez isn't going to be easily found in this game. It's not a high pressing defence, so most of the times that Suarez has the ball he's got to beat Mascherano, who's not going to take up daft positions ahead of the ball, he's always going to be in close proximity, and then he's got to beat John Terry. That's just too tough an ask. With the lack of verticality in midfield, Mascherano can also get across to help Pearce against Bale without worrying about a central threat coming into the box through that space. Another ask that looks too tough for eagle eye. On the other hand, both on the counter and in general play, eagle eye's defence looks overmatched and undermanned against LuckyLloyd's attack. Hamann can't look after two or three men on his own, LuckyLloyd wins a wide duel against eagle eye's defence, and Ince coming forward puts Schneiderlin in real trouble. LuckyLloyd to win 1-0.

LuckyLloyd

Incredible write up there, fair play!!

BMMachine

can't look beyond the sexiness of Eagle Eyes team
like Tugay and Hamman in the midfield, both underrated and both excellent players

Frankie Lee

Although I share the Tugay love this game is over and LuckyLloyd marches on.

Son Of A Vidic

Eagles team is just too mouthwatering to ignore. The demonic strike force up front, sealed at the back by the fabulous Van Der Sar. Wins it for me.

Frankie Lee

Again the 24hour voting period has elapsed. 9-4 the final score.