Clerical Officer - chances of promotion?

counting_sheep

Hi All, Today I was offered a position as a Clerical Officer in Revenue in Dublin, with a start date in less than two weeks!

I am currently employed in the private sector in the West of Ireland for similar pay as I would be getting for the clerical officer job. I am grateful to be offered the job, however, I am unsure if it is worthwhile for me to leave mine and move to Dublin.

I know there are increments in the CO payscale, but does anyone know about the chances of moving into other better paid positions in the civil service?

Thanks for your help! I have to make my decision over the next couple of days.

Caribaba

Anyone know what numbers they have reached for Dublin at the moment?

IrishPhoenix

You can't even apply for internal promotion for a minimum of two years. The promotion grade is Executive Officer, if you check the thread on it in this forum you'll read all about it. It would require you pass all the exams and score high enough to be called for interview. You will receive an increment every year as a CO.

gerrybbadd

They've changed the grade progression chain lately, so a CO can go for any grade, as long as they have relevant experience / qualifications, either in in the service, or previous

RiseToMe

Promotion opportunities are there if you work for it. My wife has worked her way up to AP since joining the civil service ten years ago so once you put in the effort you can climb.

Phantasos

I would give serious consideration to lots of things:

- Increments for CO level are frequent, but make little impact on your take-home pay for years and years. Are you happy to stay in/around the starting wage for a good while?
- Do you intend staying in Dublin for the medium term? Chances for moving back to the West would be in low supply, I'd imagine, in the short/medium term.
- Cost of living in Dublin will naturally be a lot higher than in the West

gazzer

RiseToMe wrote: »

Promotion opportunities are there if you work for it. My wife has worked her way up to AP since joining the civil service ten years ago so once you put in the effort you can climb.

It depends what department you are in and where you are based though. My department has only started doing promotions again after 7 years of nothing.

RiseToMe

gazzer wrote: »

It depends what department you are in and where you are based though. My department has only started doing promotions again after 7 years of nothing.

She transferred out of multiple departments to work her way up using competitions that were both internal and external. As I said, once you have the ambition and drive.

fly_agaric

counting_sheep wrote: »

Hi All, Today I was offered a position as a Clerical Officer in Revenue in Dublin, with a start date in less than two weeks!

I am currently employed in the private sector in the West of Ireland for similar pay as I would be getting for the clerical officer job. I am grateful to be offered the job, however, I am unsure if it is worthwhile for me to leave mine and move to Dublin.

I know there are increments in the CO payscale, but does anyone know about the chances of moving into other better paid positions in the civil service?

Thanks for your help! I have to make my decision over the next couple of days.

Civil service promotion mechanisms are fairly transparent but quite rigid; usually you'll need to do quite well in an aptitude test and then also pass a competency based interview. Sometimes might be other selection processes like presentations, filtering on application forms.
Exceptional (as opposed to good, say!) performance in the job will not have a massive bearing on ensuring you get a promotion (though you'd have much more to talk about at the interview or can make a better application which is of course an advantage). Bad ratings and performance etc. will stop you from going for promotion though.
If you are a person who is good at aptitude tests and also at putting yourself across in an interview then you're in a with a chance. There has been a long embargo on most promotions which ended last year so that will probably mean there will be more opportunities over the next couple of years barring another economic crash and promotion freeze.
However one thing is many civil service competitions are totally open now anyway so you could stay outside civil service and still go for these to enter at a higher level than CO (if you have the qualifications required).

daithi84

There will be virtually no promotional opportunities for you. First you have to complete your probation period, then the off chance there is a competition you will be competing with the thousands of clerical officers who have 10+ years experience than you and also local authority staff as well.

CO have many increments but they are not worth the effort. They are around €5 every week to you. Most goes in tax. You will not even be able to live on the starting wage for a CO these days. Your take home pay will be lower than the private sector because of pension and pension levy.

Avada

daithi84 wrote: »

There will be virtually no promotional opportunities for you. First you have to complete your probation period, then the off chance there is a competition you will be competing with the thousands of clerical officers who have 10+ years experience than you and also local authority staff as well.

CO have many increments but they are not worth the effort. They are around €5 every week to you. Most goes in tax. You will not even be able to live on the starting wage for a CO these days. Your take home pay will be lower than the private sector because of pension and pension levy.

A slight correction to this, you don't need to complete probation to apply for promotion on an external campaign.

MouseTail

I wouldn't accept a CO job on the off chance of promotion. There has been no or very little opportunity for progression in years, and many existing staff are working above their pay grade. When opportunities open up, they will be first in line with their knowledge and competencies. I'm not saying it will be impossible, but it will be very difficult for new entrants to progress in the short to mid-term.

jaqian

Just remember whatever position you are going for, so are thousands of other people, especially if they are open to the public. If you are looking to join the CS, go for it but promotions can be hard to get.

Tarzana2

MouseTail wrote: »

I wouldn't accept a CO job on the off chance of promotion. There has been no or very little opportunity for progression in years, and many existing staff are working above their pay grade. When opportunities open up, they will be first in line with their knowledge and competencies. I'm not saying it will be impossible, but it will be very difficult for new entrants to progress in the short to mid-term.

Yeah, I mean isn't there something like 1 EO for every CO? And I'd imagine the numbers decrease further at the higher ranks. So competition must be fierce. I wouldn't take a CO position on the hopes of promotion either because the CO remuneration just isn't worth taking that chance, IMO.

The_Conductor

RiseToMe wrote: »

She transferred out of multiple departments to work her way up using competitions that were both internal and external. As I said, once you have the ambition and drive.

Ambition and drive doesn't cut it. Promotions since 1998 have been limited significantly- in the 2002 instruction fewer than 1-in-6 vacancies in the civil service were filled- and that was almost 7 years before the official embargo.

To get from CO to AP in the last 10 years- is the talk of legend- rumour has it that 2 people managed to do it- in an organisation of almost 30,000. It is that rare.

Being ambitious and having drive- are a definite pre-requisite. Being damn lucky with Department choices, and going for every single possible external competition as well as all the internal ones- is a given.

Getting from CO to APO in a 10 year window- is by my reckoning- roughly 9 times rarer than a blue moon.

gerbilgranny

RiseToMe wrote: »

She transferred out of multiple departments to work her way up using competitions that were both internal and external. As I said, once you have the ambition and drive.

I've worked with people who have ambition - and I'd say drive. Excellent workers with many many skills and competencies. But it's taken far too long for them to get promoted to the next level - thankfully that's happening now...after a decade or so.

RiseToMe

The_Conductor wrote: »

Ambition and drive doesn't cut it. Promotions since 1998 have been limited significantly- in the 2002 instruction fewer than 1-in-6 vacancies in the civil service were filled- and that was almost 7 years before the official embargo.

To get from CO to AP in the last 10 years- is the talk of legend- rumour has it that 2 people managed to do it- in an organisation of almost 30,000. It is that rare.

Being ambitious and having drive- are a definite pre-requisite. Being damn lucky with Department choices, and going for every single possible external competition as well as all the internal ones- is a given.

Getting from CO to APO in a 10 year window- is by my reckoning- roughly 9 times rarer than a blue moon.

Explains why we haven't won the lotto as all her luck must be falling on her job in that case.

She works hard, has completed her degree and two masters (and a marathon!) in that time. It may be extremely rare but she has done it. And is in stage two for PO next month.

The_Conductor

RiseToMe wrote: »

Explains why we haven't won the lotto as all her luck must be falling on her job in that case.

She works hard, has completed her degree and two masters (and a marathon!) in that time. It may be extremely rare but she has done it. And is in stage two for PO next month.

I've two undergrad degrees, a grad Dip, a Masters and loads of experience both in the private and public sector. I've moved around the place in technical and business roles- and have gotten on numerous panels (AO, APO etc) but its only recently (in the last year) that promotions have started again. Regardless of how good you are- when there are over 2000 applicants for a panel of 12- you are going to be going up against some really really good candidates. Having over 2000 candidates for 12 positions- has been the norm rather than the exception over the last year. Certain Departments have been allowed have internal competitions over the last decade- such as Revenue, The Taoiseach's Department etc- these have been the exception rather than the rule.

Your wife must be one hell of a remarkable lady- if she is a shadow as good as you are painting her here- the civil service is incredibly lucky to have her as an employee- in whatever capacity she is employed. I for one would consider myself privileged to have her as my manager. That said- I work with an excellent group of people- and if/when I move elsewhere- it will be with a sad heart that I'm leaving them behind.

Getting the number of promotions she has gotten in the last decade- is remarkable in the extreme- and to call it an exception rather than the norm- doesn't rightly describe how out of the ordinary it is- and how exceptional she must be.

I meant absolutely no disrespect towards your wife with my comments- I am simply acknowledging that she sounds like the most exceptional person I have heard of in a long long time.

RiseToMe

The_Conductor wrote: »

I've two undergrad degrees, a grad Dip, a Masters and loads of experience both in the private and public sector. I've moved around the place in technical and business roles- and have gotten on numerous panels (AO, APO etc) but its only recently (in the last year) that promotions have started again. Regardless of how good you are- when there are over 2000 applicants for a panel of 12- you are going to be going up against some really really good candidates. Having over 2000 candidates for 12 positions- has been the norm rather than the exception over the last year. Certain Departments have been allowed have internal competitions over the last decade- such as Revenue, The Taoiseach's Department etc- these have been the exception rather than the rule.

Your wife must be one hell of a remarkable lady- if she is a shadow as good as you are painting her here- the civil service is incredibly lucky to have her as an employee- in whatever capacity she is employed. I for one would consider myself privileged to have her as my manager. That said- I work with an excellent group of people- and if/when I move elsewhere- it will be with a sad heart that I'm leaving them behind.

Getting the number of promotions she has gotten in the last decade- is remarkable in the extreme- and to call it an exception rather than the norm- doesn't rightly describe how out of the ordinary it is- and how exceptional she must be.

I meant absolutely no disrespect towards your wife with my comments- I am simply acknowledging that she sounds like the most exceptional person I have heard of in a long long time.

Only I know your name from across the forums I would probably come to the conclusion that you think I'm making up.

However rest assured, I'm not. Nor do I have any reason to be. I merely contributed to the thread in the capacity of seeing her progress, to be honest, I knew she did very well but with your descriptions of how well I think the celebrations we've had for promotions have been doing her quite the disservice.
She is remarkable (although I'm bias!).

The_Conductor

I don't think you're making it up- I have heard of two cases such as your wife (over the years)- I know it has happened at least twice. You are married to a remarkable woman.

luckyboy

The_Conductor wrote: »

To get from CO to AP in the last 10 years- is the talk of legend- rumour has it that 2 people managed to do it- in an organisation of almost 30,000. It is that rare.

Getting from CO to APO in a 10 year window- is by my reckoning- roughly 9 times rarer than a blue moon.

I'm not sure it is quite that rare. Two individuals taken on as CO in Revenue's VAT Repayments section in Limerick in early 2006 are now APs. It took one of them 8 years to make AP, the other took 9 years. A third of that tiny cohort is currently on an AP panel hoping to be placed.

That may not be a representative sample - as in the CO intake in a tiny section in any given year is likely to be a mixed bag - but it is nonetheless true ...