Heat for calves

pbthevet

Anyone considering red lamping all their individual calf pens?

Baby calves (dairy) arent very happy below 15 degrees. Why have them wasting energy shivering. Theres a paper somewhere (ill find it later) showing a 150-200g increase in dwg compared to calves left cold.

Considering doing it here myself. Little to be at on a Sunday evening i know

One precaution i better add tho is my calf shed has good ventilation so im not too worried about dragging up bugs in moisture as ive good air movement. On the flip side my moving air tho keeping shed fresh is technically a draft.

Gonna put one lamp per 2 pens and only turn on when it gets chilly and at night.

tomieen jones

Go the whole hog and instal underground heating! I always put a scarf around mine but they do chew em so be prepared to replace new ones every few hours! Time consuming but they are happy

pbthevet

I need scarfs that match their jackets tho!

tomieen jones

pbthevet wrote: »

I need scarfs that match their jackets tho!

Impressed! Those are nice jackets! I seen similar to these at the ploughing last year! Only fault I had was there are no pockets inside or out! And they would be for ever losing stuff I would imagine

Kovu

How about a few of these?

Reggie.

Kovu wrote: »

How about a few of these?

I bet you've a onesie just like that Kovu

Kovu

Reggie. wrote: »

I bet you've a onesie just like that Kovu

Not....quite like that one :pac:

mf240

pbthevet wrote: »

Anyone considering red lamping all their individual calf pens?

Baby calves (dairy) arent very happy below 15 degrees. Why have them wasting energy shivering. Theres a paper somewhere (ill find it later) showing a 150-200g increase in dwg compared to calves left cold.

Considering doing it here myself. Little to be at on a Sunday evening i know

One precaution i better add tho is my calf shed has good ventilation so im not too worried about dragging up bugs in moisture as ive good air movement. On the flip side my moving air tho keeping shed fresh is technically a draft.

Gonna put one lamp per 2 pens and only turn on when it gets chilly and at night.

Plenty of straw and theyll be grand.

A red lamp is grand over a sick calf but i think it would be overkill for all calves.

49801

Red lamp on a healthy calf will make it soft IMO.

whelan2

49801 wrote: »

Red lamp on a healthy calf will make it soft IMO.

ye thats my thinking too, many a calf survived outdoors in cold weather

pbthevet

Are we happy with "survival" as our target?

To get a heifer calving at 24 months and it being successful im most cases do we not need to aim for 360 (friesen) and 380 (holstein x) kg @ 15 months.

Thats 780g dwg target right there. Are we achieving this? Every day delayed = delay in that heifer paying back her investment let alone making profit.

blinding

mf240 wrote: »

Plenty of straw and theyll be grand.

A red lamp is grand over a sick calf but i think it would be overkill for all calves.

The voice of reason.

Milked out

pbthevet wrote: »

Are we happy with "survival" as our target?

To get a heifer calving at 24 months and it being successful im most cases do we not need to aim for 360 (friesen) and 380 (holstein x) kg @ 15 months.

Thats 780g dwg target right there. Are we achieving this? Every day delayed = delay in that heifer paying back her investment let alone making profit.

I know of no farmer that does what you suggest and the majority have their heifers calving at 24 months. Keep them fed, watered, and dry and you won't go far wrong. It's rapid changes in conditions or diet that would upset them or a bug of some sort

einn32

Have you any cost benefit analysis for us?

tomieen jones

I still think the scarf method is the most cost effective

ganmo

Just the thing ya need!

Cow Porter

Op... Are you a vet? Dairy co in the UK say

"regardless of housing type, a new born calf needs to be kept in a temperature of not less than 7 degree Celsius. By one month of age, a calf can comfortably withstand temperatures around freezing point."

Where are you getting 15 degrees?

Why would ya bother unless the calf was sick

Bullocks

How long will you keep them under heat for ? Would it make them kinda lazy in their intakes , like if their snug as a bug in a rug would they be inclined to stay that way instead of getting up to pick at nuts or suck as often ?

frazzledhome

Simple rule, identify threats and deal with them be that by vaccination, mgmt or feed.

This is a sales pitch, close thread!!

smokey-fitz

Heat bulbs are expensive.. we have heat bulbs on over the winter for the dog kennels, anywhere from 10 to 15 and only on when its cold. So depends on the winter and how many dogs are in. But on a average year this can bring the esb up 500+ on top of our usual bill over the 2 month period. So if you were set on raising the temp for your calves id be looking into other options.

rangler1

I used to rear a lot of calves here and used to provide an area with a canopy at 4ft high at the back of the pens, in changeable weather such as we have now they'd be in under the canopy when it was cold and lying out in the front of the pen when it wasn't, canopy would be only about 3ft out from the back wall with a layer of straw over it, would always have it with the front a small bit higher than the back to encourage the air to move forward, It definitely cut down chills

pbthevet

Cow Porter wrote: »

Op... Are you a vet? Dairy co in the UK say

"regardless of housing type, a new born calf needs to be kept in a temperature of not less than 7 degree Celsius. By one month of age, a calf can comfortably withstand temperatures around freezing point."

Where are you getting 15 degrees?

Why would ya bother unless the calf was sick

Dairy co are wrong. Its 15 degrees. Lots of papers out there on the subject with tcl (temperature critical limit) ranging from 0-25! Sticking to dairy only the advice from

Reggie.

rangler1 wrote: »

I used to rear a lot of calves here and used to provide an area with a canopy at 4ft high at the back of the pens, in changeable weather such as we have now they'd be in under the canopy when it was cold and lying out in the front of the pen when it wasn't, canopy would be only about 3ft out from the back wall with a layer of straw over it, would always have it with the front a small bit higher than the back to encourage the air to move forward, It definitely cut down chills

Them canopies are a great job for calves.

Cow Porter

pbthevet wrote: »

Dairy co are wrong. Its 15 degrees. Lots of papers out there on the subject with tcl (temperature critical limit) ranging from 0-25! Sticking to dairy only the advice from

Up to what age so, how do calves in Canada or other extremely low temperature winters do.

Deepsouthwest

I normally have around 150 calves a yr for the last few yrs, and get on pretty good with them too. And I've never had a red lamp. Never ever spare on the beastings and bedding, and ur well on ur way.

pbthevet

Dairy co are wrong. Its 15 degrees. Lots of papers out there on the subject with tcl (temperature critical limit) ranging from 0-25! Obviously changes depending on breed, diet, amount of hair and skin thickness. Sticking to dairy only and the current practices in rearing used in ireland the advice from
John Mee, ingrid Lorenz and jamie robertson ( leaders in the field) is to use 15 degrees as tcl.

This is limit for first 3-4 weeks and after that they can be happy at zero.

Anyways the main idea of the post is that we are mainly all ignoring tcl. Which from comments seen here is obvious.

Taking my shed as example. Ive good bedding and drainage. Ive redesigned the air inlets and outlets and i have also installed windbreaks to minimise drafts. So im winning with moisture, fresh air and air speed but im loosing as regards temperature. These are apparently the 4 cornerstones of animal housing. Im trying to achieve all 4.

Calves too small to generate enough heat to warm shed and adding larger animals to same airspace = disease risk. So whats the answer?

I dunno. Red lamps was just a suggestion but obviously not a popular one. Using a thermostat to turn them on just for very frosty nights might be an idea tho.

Obviously ive too much time on my hands ...........

pbthevet

Deepsouthwest wrote: »

I normally have around 150 calves a yr for the last few yrs, and get on pretty good with them too. And I've never had a red lamp. Never ever spare on the beastings and bedding, and ur well on ur way.

more bedding might be my answer, only 12 calves in shed so far so maybe it wont seem as cold when i fill it
All calves stomach tubed colostrum too. Bit of hassle but well worth it. Zero health issues since we started stomach tubing 4 years ago

pbthevet

einn32 wrote: »

Have you any cost benefit analysis for us?

Good point. Ive a wind turbine that provides a good chunk of farm power (and house) so i wasnt really worried that way

Tho in practise ....... Leaving red lamps on would be too costly. Im considering setting up a thermostat tho so that they come on automatically if temps go below say 5 degrees? Protection for those bad frosty nights

The wiring and lamos sure cost near nutn. ESB would be the main cost.

pbthevet

tomieen jones wrote: »

I still think the scarf method is the most cost effective

Only if they match the coats tomieen. Passion for fashion

Base price

pbthevet wrote: »

Good point. Ive a wind turbine that provides a good chunk of farm power (and house) so i wasnt really worried that way

Tho in practise ....... Leaving red lamps on would be too costly. Im considering setting up a thermostat tho so that they come on automatically if temps go below say 5 degrees? Protection for those bad frosty nights

The wiring and lamos sure cost near nutn. ESB would be the main cost.

Red lamp is 250w. The one that I have for a sick calf is 250w and I assume that is the normal strength. That is 1kw/h (1 unit of electricity) every 4 hours. Electricity costs will quickly mount up if running two or three for 3 or 4 weeks.
Rear a few calves every year and find that they do will in batches of 9 (10 teat feeder) in well bedded pens and NO draughts. Some will lie close in a group while others will lie by themselves.

_Brian

I think bathes of 8-9 calves and good deep clean bedding is sufficient. The key is air with no draught.

I saw real nice pens in Ballyhaise, maybe 15 ft wide with straw stored above as rangler described. They have a 8-10 ft sheeted gate hung maybe 12 ft out from back wall that creates an enclosure in back corner of pen. Calves look very happy in it.

I think heat will bring more problems than rewards. The key in the first 2-3 weeks is healthy calves and I think heat would take away from their hardiness. Cattle don't mind being cold as long as their not cold and wet.
For sucks I've seen the 10 second rule recommended for bedding, you should always be able to kneel down for 10 seconds or more without getting wet.

For weight gain I'd say the money was better spent on better feeding and bedding. You'd have better calves.

Buford T. Justice XIX

Cow Porter wrote: »

Up to what age so, how do calves in Canada or other extremely low temperature winters do.

In Canada, the calf housing has to be draught free. If a calf is born outdoors and gets chilled, the mother is milked and the calf warmed and stomach tubed.

You can spot the chilled calves fairly easily. Lower growth rates and missing ears where they were frostbitten and fall off!