The last taboo

Ososlo

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/athletics/30927245

I'm sure no one wants to discuss this topic but the attached article is very interesting for any women who have been/are affected by this issue which can impact badly on running performance.

kit3

Ososlo wrote: »

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/athletics/30927245

I'm sure no one wants to discuss this topic but the attached article is very interesting for any women who have been/are affected by this issue which can impact badly on running performance.

Bit of a discussion on this over on TRR's log but don't think it's the discussion you are looking for really :rolleyes:

TRR_the_turd

My god, before any one reads my comments on my log. I was been sarcastic and joking about stereotypes.

no doubt this is an issue. Training with a couple of ladies through the years and they had mentioned how it can have negative impact on race/training performance. To be honest up until a couple of years ago, I naively assumed that for elite female sportswomen, particularly endurance athletes it wasn't an issue. Had read articles were Sonia osullivan and others (I had thought it included Radcliffe, but may be wrong) were saying their menstrual cycle was non existence due to impact training had on their body. That was probably more a case of over training.

To say it's a taboo is very Victorian

RacoonQueen

Even just for general training it has a big impact (for me) - then every woman is different. I'm lucky in that my cycle is not a 28 day cycle - I get very fatigued.

Ososlo

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Even just for general training it has a big impact (for me) - then every woman is different. I'm lucky in that my cycle is not a 28 day cycle - I get very fatigued.

For me the problem is pain - really horrible pain that can only be blitzed by hard drugs for about 2 days out of every 28.
Problem is it's hard to train hard and race hard when drugged to the hilt.
I did a half marathon after popping pills and it was a disaster from mile 10 and I felt bad for about 2 days afterwards so it's difficult to know what to do!
Try to run through the pain or try to run on pills. Neither works so what do you do? Not race/train hard I guess during that time ...

kit3

TRR_the_turd wrote: »

My god, before any one reads my comments on my log. I was been sarcastic and joking about stereotypes.

no doubt this is an issue. Training with a couple of ladies through the years and they had mentioned how it can have negative impact on race/training performance. To be honest up until a couple of years ago, I naively assumed that for elite female sportswomen, particularly endurance athletes it wasn't an issue. Had read articles were Sonia osullivan and others (I had thought it included Radcliffe, but may be wrong) were saying their menstrual cycle was non existence due to impact training had on their body. That was probably more a case of over training.

To say it's a taboo is very Victorian

Apologies - my comment about your log was very much tongue-in-cheek

eviltwin

Luckily I don't have any physical issues that impact on my running. I find using a mooncup is perfect too, far more secure than towels or tampons.

Ososlo

TRR_the_turd wrote: »

My god, before any one reads my comments on my log. I was been sarcastic and joking about stereotypes.

no doubt this is an issue. Training with a couple of ladies through the years and they had mentioned how it can have negative impact on race/training performance. To be honest up until a couple of years ago, I naively assumed that for elite female sportswomen, particularly endurance athletes it wasn't an issue. Had read articles were Sonia osullivan and others (I had thought it included Radcliffe, but may be wrong) were saying their menstrual cycle was non existence due to impact training had on their body. That was probably more a case of over training.

To say it's a taboo is very Victorian

ha ha the word taboo was a reference to what that tennis player called it

Yes overtraining can be a cause of it stopping for definite but it can happen just when training mileage or intensity is increased, but not necessarily to an overtraining extent.
Thanks for the useful contribution! I knew you were having a laugh on your log. Thanks to Gavlor I found the article

RacoonQueen

Ososlo wrote: »

For me the problem is pain - really horrible pain that can only be blitzed by hard drugs for about 2 days out of every 28.
Problem is it's hard to train hard and race hard when drugged to the hilt.
I did a half marathon after popping pills and it was a disaster from mile 10 and I felt bad for about 2 days afterwards so it's difficult to know what to do!
Try to run through the pain or try to run on pills. Neither works so what do you do? Not race/train hard I guess during that time ...

I can generally run through it, but I get fatigue in the build up and wouldn't be 100% on whether it's menstrual cycle related or onset of illness/overtraining etc
Swimming and cycling can be uncomfortable though.

I got them on the day of a marathon a few years ago...one of the worst races of my life but that was for other reasons. Didn't Radcliffe run her marathon world record on a day where she got her perioud 'unexpectedly' ?

Ososlo

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Didn't Radcliffe run her marathon world record on a day where she got her perioud 'unexpectedly' ?

yip...

The 41-year-old revealed she first broke the record in Chicago in 2002 while suffering period cramps in the last third of the race.
"Sometimes maybe people didn't believe - you need more women who understand to give more evidence.

What bloody bad luck! (excuse the pun!):o

That's worth at least another few minutes if in the full of her health! LEGEND!

BeepBeep67

Impacts me massively, not easy to convince Mrs Beeps that I'm doing a double run day when the screaming jib dabs are in town

kit3

BeepBeep67 wrote: »

Impacts me massively, not easy to convince Mrs Beeps that I'm doing a double run day when the screaming jib dabs are in town

You're brave

Ososlo

Interesting article here:

http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/health-family/fitness/does-menstruation-affect-women-s-athletic-performance-1.2774693

Does menstruation affect women’s athletic performance?

Study finds women tend to be more likely to have ACL injury in the first half of their cycle
Wed, Aug 31, 2016, 18:28
Gretchen Reynolds

When the Chinese swimmer Fu Yuanhui casually told reporters
at the Rio Olympics that she was suffering from period pain during a relay, her
comments raised eyebrows and lit up Twitter.

While the swimmer was widely praised and mildly rebuked for
openly speaking about her period, it was a rare public acknowledgment of a topic
that is much discussed in private among female athletes: Does a woman’s
menstrual cycle affect her performance as an athlete?

It is an issue that is only beginning to be rigorously
studied by science. Menstruation is never absent from the many sports in which
women compete, but for the most part has remained a taboo topic. “It’s this
completely natural process that affects half of the world’s population and is
certainly having an effect on many of the athletes there in Rio,” said Deborah Slaner Larkin, the chief executive of the
Women’s Sports Foundation. “Why shouldn’t we talk about it? None of us would be
here if it didn’t happen.”

For the past several years, Lynn Rogers, the director of the Neuralplasticity Laboratory at the Rehabilitation
Institute of Chicago and her collaborators have been studying the potential
effects of hormonal changes across the menstrual cycle on women’s muscles, other
soft tissues and nervous systems.

There is some suggestive evidence, Rogers said, that women
may have a higher risk of tissue injuries, especially tears of the anterior
cruciate ligament in the knee, at certain points in the menstrual cycle. When
researchers have examined insurance records related to ACL operations, she said,
they have found that women tend to be more likely to have the injury in the
first half of their menstrual cycle, especially as they approach ovulation.

Susceptibility to tissue injuries may be related in part to
changing levels of oestrogen and progesterone, the two main hormones involved in
reproduction, throughout the menstrual cycle. Rogers and other scientists
suspect that these hormones and their fluctuations may subtly alter the
efficiency with which the neurons communicate with the muscles, ligaments and
other tissues that make the body move.





One of the group’s earliest studies, published in 2014, found
that certain leg muscles in fit, young women became very slightly more lax early
in the menstrual cycles, when oestrogen levels were relatively high. In effect,
the muscles were not quite as responsive to messages from the nervous system as
they were later in the cycle, a situation that theoretically could result in
slightly dulled reflexes and, potentially, a higher risk for injuries.

But that study was small and raised more questions than it
answered about how the menstrual cycle might affect physical performance, said
Rogers, who is also an assistant professor at Northwestern University’s Feinberg
School of Medicine. It did not show, for example, whether the muscles and
related tissues were actually physiologically altered by changes in hormones, or
if the changes principally occurred only within the nervous system, especially
the brain, affecting how it transmitted messages to the muscles.

Rogers and her collaborators are about to undertake an
ambitious series of experiments to explore some of those issues, she said. But
results will probably not be available for years. In the meantime, she said, it
is not unreasonable for female athletes, coaches and trainers in sports that
involve jumping, cutting and other sudden movements known to stress knees to
take into account a woman’s menstrual cycle.

“Maybe do fewer cutting drills in the first half” of the
cycle, when oestrogen levels are peaking, Rogers said. Instead, coaches might
want to concentrate those drills, particularly if they are repeated and intense,
after menses, when “progesterone is higher,” Rogers said, “since the indications
are that progesterone can be protective” against knee injuries.

Her advice to endurance athletes about how to match their
training and racing to their menstrual cycles would be almost exactly inverted,
she said, based on what scientists know. “The available research, such as there
is,” she said, suggests that “progesterone can alter the body’s fuel metabolism
and its ability to handle heat,” meaning that women will probably feel hotter
and more fatigued during prolonged exercise in the second half of their
menstrual cycles, when progesterone levels rise, than before menses, when
progesterone is low.

A 2005 study, one of the few to carefully track women’s
physical performance throughout their menstrual cycles, found that trained
athletes and healthy but untrained women rode slightly faster during a cycling
time trial on the days just before ovulation, when their oestrogen levels were
high and their progesterone dampened, than at any other point during their
cycles. But the performance gain was not statistically significant.

Taken as a whole, the few scientific studies that have
focused on women, sports and menstruation indicate that, while a woman’s body
will change during her monthly cycle, her performance is unlikely to be
significantly enhanced or weakened. Even cramping has not been shown to impair
athletic performance.

But many aspects of athletic performance and the reproductive
cycle remain almost completely unexplored scientifically.

Many questions remain, for example, about why some female
athletes, especially those in endurance events such as distance running, develop
irregular periods and if such disruptions could have any long-term effects on
fertility, although plenty of distance runners have become pregnant.

Some female athletes have begun to manipulate their periods.
“My daughter, who is 17, went on the pill to help make her periods lighter and
more predictable,” the mother of an elite Colorado ski racer, who wanted to
protect the privacy of her daughter’s medical history, told me. “Her doctor told
her that she can skip four periods a year, which she reserves for ski
races.”

Whether such interventions are advisable or athletically
effective is unknown. Advocates of women’s sports hope that Fu’s declaration
that she was menstruating during the Olympics can help spur discussion and
funding to research the issue.
“The available research at the moment” related to athletes
and menstruation “is woefully inadequate,” Rogers said.

aquinn

FFS. So it wasn't the hangover and badly chosen slope that did it. It was hormones!

'There is some suggestive evidence, Rogers said, that women
may have a higher risk of tissue injuries, especially tears of the anterior
cruciate ligament in the knee, at certain points in the menstrual cycle. When
researchers have examined insurance records related to ACL operations, she said,
they have found that women tend to be more likely to have the injury in the
first half of their menstrual cycle, especially as they approach ovulation.'

Sake.

chickey2

Another interesting article http://m.bbc.com/sport/tennis/30926244

Since I got my fitbit I've noticed my resting heart rate fluctuates with my monthly cycle. Its lowest at ovulation and then peaks a couple of days before my period.
I've never really had a problem running during my period. However, I sleep worse in the few days before it's due so am more tired and less enthusiastic about running.

Extrasupervery

If it's a taboo then we as women are helping perpetuate it as 55% of the world's population menstruate. I don't understand how so many people can watch gorey, bloody tv shows and movies without a grimace but even talking about 20-30 mls of vag blood sends people into spirals of horror. If you don't menstruate then rest assured that your momma did, your sisters do, your daughters will. Let's call it by it's proper name and not condescending synonyms, let's not persecute and demean women who already feel crap and uncomfortable, let's use our collective brain power and smarts to make these women cups of tea, and then all get down to the business of figuring out how we can make periods less of a barrier to women participating in sports, which not only eases the symptoms of PMS and ovulation pain but empowers them.

I find my performance is heavily impacted by where I am in my cycle. If you don't use one already it'd be worthwhile having a look at some of the period tracker apps, 'Clue' is great. It suggests monitoring options such as bleeding, pain and energy levels but you can add others. I'm seeing a pattern where DOMS are much worse during the first 6 days of my cycle, and speed is way down in days 28-32. It also helps you figure out your 'fertility window' in the month which (for those of us not working on baby making) is a great time to PB.

Thanks for sharing these articles, they make for interesting reading and it's great to get discussion going on this topic. I suggest we recruit Caitlin Moran and Paula Radcliffe get together and help us sort it out

joesoap5

Extrasupervery wrote: »

If it's a taboo then we as women are helping perpetuate it as 55% of the world's population menstruate. I don't understand how so many people can watch gorey, bloody tv shows and movies without a grimace but even talking about 20-30 mls of vag blood sends people into spirals of horror. If you don't menstruate then rest assured that your momma did, your sisters do, your daughters will. Let's call it by it's proper name and not condescending synonyms, let's not persecute and demean women who already feel crap and uncomfortable, let's use our collective brain power and smarts to make these women cups of tea, and then all get down to the business of figuring out how we can make periods less of a barrier to women participating in sports, which not only eases the symptoms of PMS and ovulation pain but empowers them.

I find my performance is heavily impacted by where I am in my cycle. If you don't use one already it'd be worthwhile having a look at some of the period tracker apps, 'Clue' is great. It suggests monitoring options such as bleeding, pain and energy levels but you can add others. I'm seeing a pattern where DOMS are much worse during the first 6 days of my cycle, and speed is way down in days 28-32. It also helps you figure out your 'fertility window' in the month which (for those of us not working on baby making) is a great time to PB.

Thanks for sharing these articles, they make for interesting reading and it's great to get discussion going on this topic. I suggest we recruit Caitlin Moran and Paula Radcliffe get together and help us sort it out

I'm actually considering visiting the doc for some kind of pill to bring forward my period as its due around the DCM date.

Speaking of PMT etc., i don't know if anyone uses it but Evening Primrose Oil with Starflower oil is a fantastic supplement for easing these effects.
I take 3 500mg capsules each day and they really do alleviate the cramping and low moods. Its only when you stop taking it for a month or two that you notice the difference.

muddypaws

Oh ladies, just wait until the menopause (or peri-menopause), running along and suddenly sweating buckets, bone numbing exhaustion, aching joints, such a lovely time of life for anyone doing exercise.

muddypaws

joesoap5 wrote: »

I'm actually considering visiting the doc for some kind of pill to bring forward my period as its due around the DCM date.

Speaking of PMT etc., i don't know if anyone uses it but Evening Primrose Oil with Starflower oil is a fantastic supplement for easing these effects.
I take 3 500mg capsules each day and they really do alleviate the cramping and low moods. Its only when you stop taking it for a month or two that you notice the difference.

Its too late now if its for the DCM this year, but the normal contraceptive pill can work, you just don't stop taking it, its not recommended all of the time, but women do use it in this way for special events.

joesoap5

muddypaws wrote: »

Its too late now if its for the DCM this year, but the normal contraceptive pill can work, you just don't stop taking it, its not recommended all of the time, but women do use it in this way for special events.

I don't know what the procedure is but it was my friend who works in a hospital who was telling to go to the Doc and get something. I was thinking
it might be like the morning after pill or something? I really don't know, just throwing it out there at this stage.

RacoonQueen

Just run it with your period. It's no big deal. Do you not continue training as normal when you have it any other month?

joesoap5

muddypaws wrote: »

Oh ladies, just wait until the menopause (or peri-menopause), running along and suddenly sweating buckets, bone numbing exhaustion, aching joints, such a lovely time of life for anyone doing exercise.

Yeah I've seen my sisters symptoms, cannot wait for that stage in my life

I suppose at least we don't go bald or have erectile dysfunction

joesoap5

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Just run it with your period. It's no big deal. Do you not continue training as normal when you have it any other month?

Yes of course I do but if I can get a quick solution for it then why would I want to suffer through it. I don't want or need any extra fatique or slump when I'm running to be honest.

RacoonQueen

joesoap5 wrote: »

Yes of course I do but if I can get a quick solution for it then why would I want to suffer through it. I don't want or need any extra fatique or slump when I'm running to be honest.

On race day you won't even notice - I had mine for a marathon and for Ironman. I can't even predict when it's going to be since I'm totally irregular so the Ironman arrival was not a welcome or planned addition to my prep Nothing you can do really - I certainly wouldn't even consider messing with my cycle just for a marathon.

joesoap5

RacoonQueen wrote: »

On race day you won't even notice - I had mine for a marathon and for Ironman. I can't even predict when it's going to be since I'm totally irregular so the Ironman arrival was not a welcome or planned addition to my prep Nothing you can do really - I certainly wouldn't even consider messing with my cycle just for a marathon.

Thanks for the advice - I'm just putting it out there for the moment.
I'll look it up and see what the options are.
I don't mind messing with my cycle if theres no side effects.

rainbow kirby

RacoonQueen wrote: »

I certainly wouldn't even consider messing with my cycle just for a marathon.

Likewise. That said, I wouldn't be massively surprised if mother nature decided to send gifts on April 23rd :pac:

huskerdu

joesoap5 wrote: »

Thanks for the advice - I'm just putting it out there for the moment.
I'll look it up and see what the options are.
I don't mind messing with my cycle if theres no side effects.

If you are already on the pill, its very easy to not leave a weeks gap between packets and avoid a period, but going on the pill just to do that might cause more problems than its worth. If you are not already on the pill, going on it can cause some side effects, in some women. Not what you need if you are hoping to peak for the marathon.

joesoap5

huskerdu wrote: »

If you are already on the pill, its very easy to not leave a weeks gap between packets and avoid a period, but going on the pill just to do that might cause more problems than its worth. If you are not already on the pill, going on it can cause some side effects, in some women. Not what you need if you are hoping to peak for the marathon.

Ah I probably won't bother doing anything, it seems more trouble than its worth and I'm just looking to get around the course. It would be nice to not have the added fatigue and all that goes with it. But as Rq said when you're in the moment, It will probably be the last thought on my mind.