Negotiating sale agreed price

mullinr2

Bit of advice needed. Went sale agreed on a house a few months back. There was some legal work needed so it has taken a long time for the sale to go through. We just got survey done and had a plumber out to the house. There is an oil stove in the living room that was advertised as being hooked up to the back boiler. We had the plumber to look at it and he said that it has been disconnected and also that there is corrosion on the stove. Basically it is not fit for purpose and needs replacing. Engineer said that the flue is not properly installed and not up to building regulations.
My question is where do we stand in terms of negotiating a reduction because of this. It was advertised as a stove hooked to back boiler. Our plumber has estimated around 4 grand to buy new stove and install. Surely it is reasonable to get off at least half of this sum.
Opinion s please

TheDriver

You can try and see, they can only say no. You should also give vendor opportunity to rectify issues at their expense.....

mullinr2

TheDriver wrote: »

You can try and see, they can only say no. You should also give vendor opportunity to rectify issues at their expense.....

The house hasn't been lived in for about 5 years. Do we do the negotiating or do we get our solicitor to do it.?

CBFi

mullinr2 wrote: »

The house hasn't been lived in for about 5 years. Do we do the negotiating or do we get our solicitor to do it.?

Go to estate agent as he can approach it carefully. It's in his best interests for sale to proceed.

spaceHopper

You are a bit late you should have got the survey done as soon as possible but you are where you are they must know there is a issue since you called in the plumber. It comes down to how much you want the house and if you expect prices to have risen since went SA. Will they put it back on the market or say ok and take two grand off or stand their ground. How badly do they want the money who is selling it

ElizKenny

We had sale agreed on our house and the buyer started coming back with all sorts of stuff.
Some of it did require money to fix up, but when we went sale agreed we stuck at that price.
We told the buyer either they wanted the house at the price we agreed or not, to make up their mind.
They then asked for half the cost to make the alterations they wanted. We didnt bother even replying. Figured this is only the start and we'll never get the house sold at this rate.
We just pulled the plug and went with one of the other bidders. (They were all very close to each other in bidding anyway)

Then the original buyer said ok, they would take it at the agreed price. Too late we said, house has been sold to someone else.
And would you believe it they then came back again offering higher than the original sale agreed price, but we had no time for them at that stage anyway.

Why did they bother in the first place.

mullinr2

ElizKenny wrote: »

We had sale agreed on our house and the buyer started coming back with all sorts of stuff.
Some of it did require money to fix up, but when we went sale agreed we stuck at that price.
We told the buyer either they wanted the house at the price we agreed or not, to make up their mind.
They then asked for half the cost to make the alterations they wanted. We didnt bother even replying. Figured this is only the start and we'll never get the house sold at this rate.
We just pulled the plug and went with one of the other bidders. (They were all very close to each other in bidding anyway)

Then the original buyer said ok, they would take it at the agreed price. Too late we said, house has been sold to someone else.
And would you believe it they then came back again offering higher than the original sale agreed price, but we had no time for them at that stage anyway.

Why did they bother in the first place.

I get where you are coming from, however it was advertised as a stove in working order hooked up to a back boiler. This is false advertisement. It is neither hooked up and both plumber and engineer said it was installed incorrectly, therefore it is dangerous to use. Look we have to put in at least 40 grand into this house which is 20 grand more on what it is actually worth. Prices maybe going up but they won't go up too much. It is mainly hype and speculation. There will be another crash when the Euro falls

professore

Caveat Emptor. Just decide if you're willing to buy at that price or not. The seller may have thought it was in working order, or not. In any case you are hardly going to take them to court over it.Either way, it's not like buying a pair of shoes. It's up to you to have the house thoroughly checked before you buy. Think of it like buying a second hand car privately.

Oh yeah, and just like the second hand car, you can ask for money off ... But they don't have to give it.

ElizKenny

mullinr2 wrote: »

I get where you are coming from, however it was advertised as a stove in working order hooked up to a back boiler. This is false advertisement. It is neither hooked up and both plumber and engineer said it was installed incorrectly, therefore it is dangerous to use. Look we have to put in at least 40 grand into this house which is 20 grand more on what it is actually worth. Prices maybe going up but they won't go up too much. It is mainly hype and speculation. There will be another crash when the Euro falls

Why are you putting in more money than its worth?
That doesnt make sense to me.

And if you strongly believe there is gong to be another crash why are you buying at todays prices then?

For your current problem though, all you can do is ask.

Gumbo

mullinr2 wrote: »

I get where you are coming from, however it was advertised as a stove in working order hooked up to a back boiler. This is false advertisement. It is neither hooked up and both plumber and engineer said it was installed incorrectly, therefore it is dangerous to use. Look we have to put in at least 40 grand into this house which is 20 grand more on what it is actually worth. Prices maybe going up but they won't go up too much. It is mainly hype and speculation. There will be another crash when the Euro falls

Then buy another house. You sound like you are been forced to buy this one.

Bigcheeze

ElizKenny wrote: »

We had sale agreed on our house and the buyer started coming back with all sorts of stuff.
Some of it did require money to fix up, but when we went sale agreed we stuck at that price.
We told the buyer either they wanted the house at the price we agreed or not, to make up their mind.
They then asked for half the cost to make the alterations they wanted. We didnt bother even replying. Figured this is only the start and we'll never get the house sold at this rate.
We just pulled the plug and went with one of the other bidders. (They were all very close to each other in bidding anyway)

Then the original buyer said ok, they would take it at the agreed price. Too late we said, house has been sold to someone else.
And would you believe it they then came back again offering higher than the original sale agreed price, but we had no time for them at that stage anyway.

Why did they bother in the first place.

They made the mistake of thinking they had leverage. It's a risky strategy to try and renegotiate the price if the bidding was competitive as the seller has other options.

elastico

mullinr2 wrote: »

I get where you are coming from, however it was advertised as a stove in working order hooked up to a back boiler. This is false advertisement. It is neither hooked up and both plumber and engineer said it was installed incorrectly, therefore it is dangerous to use. Look we have to put in at least 40 grand into this house which is 20 grand more on what it is actually worth. Prices maybe going up but they won't go up too much. It is mainly hype and speculation. There will be another crash when the Euro falls

Its a private sale, so they can put whatever they want on the ad. Its no different to buying a used car on donedeal, the seller will obviously tell you everything is rosy even though there could be problems that might not be too obvious to spot.

If the house hadn't been lived in for 5 years then its reasonable to assume the stove was at least 10 years old and near end of live anyway.

yankinlk

mullinr2 wrote: »

I get where you are coming from, however it was advertised as a stove in working order hooked up to a back boiler. This is false advertisement. It is neither hooked up and both plumber and engineer said it was installed incorrectly, therefore it is dangerous to use.

i have yet to meet a plumber that hasnt rubbished the plumber before them...

mickdw

I carry out house surveys and in general it is to be expected that there will be a minor renegotiation if issues arise from the survey.
This would relate to houses that are in turnkey condition.
In this case, buying a house that needs 40k spending, I don't think that the condition of the stove is something that the vendor would be interested in listening to.

cpoh1

Rule of thumb with this stuff is that if there are major structural issues with a house coming from a survey then you can go back and look to negotiate, anything else and its considered sharp practice. At the end of the day houses are second hand items and some over 50 years old, and any survey will find issues with a house. You just need to determine what is a major issue and something that will need to be upgraded and fixed down the line. A stove falls into the latter category in my opinion.

You either buy the house if you want it or leave it to someone else. You are taking a major risk with going back to the vendor looking for a discount for what is a small issue.

L'prof

cpoh1 wrote: »

Rule of thumb with this stuff is that if there are major structural issues with a house coming from a survey then you can go back and look to negotiate, anything else and its considered sharp practice. At the end of the day houses are second hand items and some over 50 years old, and any survey will find issues with a house. You just need to determine what is a major issue and something that will need to be upgraded and fixed down the line. A stove falls into the latter category in my opinion.

You either buy the house if you want it or leave it to someone else. You are taking a major risk with going back to the vendor looking for a discount for what is a small issue.

€4k is hardly a small issue though on top of all the other expected expenses that go along with purchasing a new house!

Edit: Just saw that OP is already expecting €40k of work on the house. I can't see any reductions being offered.

cpoh1

L'prof wrote: »

€4k is hardly a small issue though on top of all the other expected expenses that go along with purchasing a new house!

Edit: Just saw that OP is already expecting €40k of work on the house. I can't see any reductions being offered.

€4k is small money in the scheme of things when finding issues with a house you are looking to buy, and the key thing is it's not new!

What about the carpets you dont like, or the kitchen at the end of its shelf life (love that pun!)? What about the tired gas boiler or the plastic bathtub you will need to replace? You are never finished working or spending on houses. A stove needing money is not that big a deal.

It would be different if there were sewage pipe issues, subsidence or roof structural issues. These are the type of things you go back to a vendor with.

mullinr2

What about a stove that's not properly inserted and doesn't meet building regulations?

davo10

mullinr2 wrote: »

What about a stove that's not properly inserted and doesn't meet building regulations?

Today's building regulations? It may have been fine at the time it was put in. Just in case you are under any illusions, the purchase of a house is not covered by the same consumer laws as say, the purchase of a television. You are advised to have it surveyed by your surveyor so that any faults are identified, whether you buy after that is your business but it is a case of caveat emptor. As others have said, buyers sometimes moan about defects and want them fixed before the sale will go through but you might want x fixed, if the sale falls through the next buyer will want y fixed, the next z etc so most sellers will just tell you it is being sold "as is".

spaceHopper

You asked for advice most people have said leave it be and if you like the house buy it. When we bought our house there were issues with the kitchen extension one of my friends said the same to me if you like the house buy it... 3 years on i am happy to be doing better things with my time than house hunting. If you feel strongly about it talk to the EA and see what they say but don't be shocked if they say no or pull the sale

trishasaffron

When I bought in early 2013 the surveys bright up a dampness issue that could cost c.10k (this was on a house that was going to have over 100k return). I wavered whether to attempt renegotiation particularly as there had been a bidding war. I did raise it via the estate agent asking if they would consider a drop in price by 5k. I was really polite about it and to my surprise they agreed. In return I went ahead and closed really quickly.

I would think the fact that the property was advertised as having a working stove gives you a strong case to make but if they have another offer they might refuse and drop you........if you do approach them do it through the ea and give the vendors an incentive e.g. quick closing. You always need to make the other side feel they've got something out of a deal.

mullinr2

Got the builder out. The chimney cap in caput which is in turn allowing the water down the chimney and causing the dampness. Now it is not going to cost too much to fix but it needs fixing. I think we def have grounds to renegotiate.

peter_dublin

mullinr2 wrote: »

Got the builder out. The chimney cap in caput which is in turn allowing the water down the chimney and causing the dampness. Now it is not going to cost too much to fix but it needs fixing. I think we def have grounds to renegotiate.

I think your taking the mick, a chimney cap is pennies in the cost of a house, in fact it's 22.99 from Goodwins for a concrete one, a roofer / builder will replace it in a few hours and your looking to renegotiate on that basis. If I was the seller I would be saying take a hike and you run this risk for a repair that will leave you change our of a few hundred.

MouseTail

peter_dublin wrote: »

I think your taking the mick, a chimney cap is pennies in the cost of a house, in fact it's 22.99 from Goodwins for a concrete one, a roofer / builder will replace it in a few hours and your looking to renegotiate on that basis. If I was the seller I would be saying take a hike and you run this risk for a repair that will leave you change our of a few hundred.

I agree I'm afraid, as a vendor I would laugh first if you wanted to negotiate over a chimney cap, then start talking to the underbidder.

duckcfc

yankinlk wrote: »

i have yet to meet a plumber that hasnt rubbished the plumber before them...

Same with every trade lol

Big Cheese

We went sale agreed on a property in Clane. Survey showed numerous issues and some false advertising. At the high end it would've cost 19k to rectify. We asked for 10k reduction on sale agreed price. They offered 2k reduction or they would put back on market.

We pulled out of sale and they put it back on market.....they didn't get any interest at all 2nd time around. Don't get sucked in to accepting something you are not happy with. If you think it is really worth it, then buy it.