2014 flat ratings.

sting60

How in the name of god can belardo be rated top 2yr old is way beyond me at 119 same as camelot in 2011.there is a massive Japanese showing in breeding and performance which would indicate that the best mares don't stand in this country.final figures for top country which bred top horses in 2014.top 118 bred horses are as follows usa 47,GB 37, IRL 32, Japan 29,Australia 15,France 10,Hong Kong 10,germany7, new Zealand 6,Argentina 4,etc.I cannot get the nh figures for 2014 from turf club but I believe that French breads are in another planet.

Itziger

sting60 wrote: »

How in the name of god can belardo be rated top 2yr old is way beyond me at 119 same as camelot in 2011.there is a massive Japanese showing in breeding and performance which would indicate that the best mares don't stand in this country.final figures for top country which bred top horses in 2014.top 118 bred horses are as follows usa 47,GB 37, IRL 32, Japan 29,Australia 15,France 10,Hong Kong 10,germany7, new Zealand 6,Argentina 4,etc.I cannot get the nh figures for 2014 from turf club but I believe that French breads are in another planet.

No, last time I was in Paris I had some tasty stuff and the best thing is, when they run out you can eat brioche.

Otherwise agree with everything in your post.

FIVE2_THREE

Japanese horses can not be taken seriously. Most of their G1 races are segregated to only Japanese trained,Bred or Owned horses. outside of the Japan cup Turf and Dirt very few races are open to international competition. Time after time people have built up Japanese horses and they have all fallen flat. Just a way, El condor Pasa, Grand Prix Boss,Ovfevre, and many others have been all sizzle and no steak.

tryfix

FIVE2_THREE wrote: »

Japanese horses can not be taken seriously. Most of their G1 races are segregated to only Japanese trained,Bred or Owned horses. outside of the Japan cup Turf and Dirt very few races are open to international competition. Time after time people have built up Japanese horses and they have all fallen flat. Just a way, El condor Pasa, Grand Prix Boss,Ovfevre, and many others have been all sizzle and no steak.

Can't say that I ever heard anyone bigging up Grand Prix Boss. Have you?

Just A Way wasn't bigged up. He was only rated 123 before he produced what was judged to be the best performance in the world in Meydan when winning in the Spring over 9f, repeat 9f. He started at 7/1 in the Arc. If he had been bigged up he'd have started at 2/1 or less.

El Condor Pasa wasn't bigged up. He started at 18/5 behind the monster 12f 3yo horse Montjeu and just went down by 1/2l, 6l clear of the third horse. Putting in a 134 performance an improvement of 8lb on his Japanese 3yo rating.

How many horses could you name that could have put in that performance? Here's a clue, that was form approximately 6l better than the likes of St Nicholas Abbey and So You Think at their best.

Orfevre was not overhyped, he was a brilliantly quirky horse, interest in him centred on his quirkiness. Only rated 123 in Japan as a 3yo he increased his OR to 127 as 4yo. Missing out on an Arc win when jinking near the line thereby throwing the Arc away to the mud lover Solemia on attrocious ground. He finished 2nd in two Arcs.

You missed out on the one real Japanese hype horse. The mighty Deep Impact who was backed off the boards on the Tote by fanatical Japanese fans who just wanted to have a souvenir of their Frankel winning what they thought would be a cake walk. The horse won 12 races 7 Gp 1s, many of them at 1/10f and 10/30f.

He ran a poor race in the Arc, jockey came in for a lot of stick, and the horse was probably capable of better, but not much better. In his next race he took the Japan Cup. He probably wasn't even overrated by the handicapper who gave him an OR of 127 for his Japanese form.

A little bit of respect wouldn't go astray for a racing nation that appreciates the greatness of 12f horses and sends their horses outside their comfort zone to compete.

Gregk961

Never understood the general distain of Japanese horses, mostly based on "failing" in the Arc, as mentioned above by Tryfix they have hit the crossbar a couple of times in spite of often being run over unsuitable trips and also the small matter of travelling half way around the world. Its hardly been a disaster and the elusive win will come

FIVE2_THREE

tryfix wrote: »

Can't say that I ever heard anyone bigging up Grand Prix Boss. Have you?

Just A Way wasn't bigged up. He was only rated 123 before he produced what was judged to be the best performance in the world in Meydan when winning in the Spring over 9f, repeat 9f. He started at 7/1 in the Arc. If he had been bigged up he'd have started at 2/1 or less.

El Condor Pasa wasn't bigged up. He started at 18/5 behind the monster 12f 3yo horse Montjeu and just went down by 1/2l, 6l clear of the third horse. Putting in a 134 performance an improvement of 8lb on his Japanese 3yo rating.

How many horses could you name that could have put in that performance? Here's a clue, that was form approximately 6l better than the likes of St Nicholas Abbey and So You Think at their best.

Orfevre was not overhyped, he was a brilliantly quirky horse, interest in him centred on his quirkiness. Only rated 123 in Japan as a 3yo he increased his OR to 127 as 4yo. Missing out on an Arc win when jinking near the line thereby throwing the Arc away to the mud lover Solemia on attrocious ground. He finished 2nd in two Arcs.

You missed out on the one real Japanese hype horse. The mighty Deep Impact who was backed off the boards on the Tote by fanatical Japanese fans who just wanted to have a souvenir of their Frankel winning what they thought would be a cake walk. The horse won 12 races 7 Gp 1s, many of them at 1/10f and 10/30f.

He ran a poor race in the Arc, jockey came in for a lot of stick, and the horse was probably capable of better, but not much better. In his next race he took the Japan Cup. He probably wasn't even overrated by the handicapper who gave him an OR of 127 for his Japanese form.

A little bit of respect wouldn't go astray for a racing nation that appreciates the greatness of 12f horses and sends their horses outside their comfort zone to compete.

OK AND ? and yes I heard plenty of Japanese reporters talking up. GPB I follow racing around the world Not just what takes place in Europe.

FIVE2_THREE

Gregk961 wrote: »

Never understood the general distain of Japanese horses, mostly based on "failing" in the Arc, as mentioned above by Tryfix they have hit the crossbar a couple of times in spite of often being run over unsuitable trips and also the small matter of travelling half way around the world. Its hardly been a disaster and the elusive win will come

There is no disdain. as I said how can you embrace a country that doesn't allow international horses in most of its G1 races ? and for the races they do allow international horses they cap the number.

tryfix

FIVE2_THREE wrote: »

OK AND ? and yes I heard plenty of Japanese reporters talking up. GPB I follow racing around the world Not just what takes place in Europe.

He was a champion 2yo in Japan in 2010 and won their 2,000 Guineas which is probably where the hype came in, but he went down hill and his form since is very hit and miss ( Flat placings 1711/4318802/00726120/10779/2463 ). His starting price of 16/1 in Frankel's St James Palace stakes off an OR of 114 suggests he wasn't that highly thought of in what should have been his prime as a 3yo. He's indeed a strange one and a decent sprinter as well.

He'd a 150/1 2nd to Just A Way in the mud which flattered him and there may have been some chatter that he was back to his two year old form but it wasn't reflected in his starting prices in his runs since at prices of 9/1 16/1 16/1.