Does chronic shyness be interpreted by others as rudeness?

LegacyUser

So here's my problems, firstly I am chronically shy. Which is a problem in itself, but I've just started to think about the way in which others perceive my shyness and I reckon I come across as a right rude d*ckhead.

I've worked in the same place for the last 10 months and am finishing up there soon. I started off ok. I went out to lunch with people, I made small talk but still felt awkward in the process of doing these things. I only ever felt comfortable when we went for drinks after work because I'm never socially anxious with a few beers. During work whenever someone tried talking to me about actual work I'd always blush, avoid eye contact and thus felt like sh*t about myself. If a figure of authority like the manager came over to our desk for a chat I'd always go to the bathroom to avoid him talking to me and me going red.

A couple of months into the job I became more and more isolated. People have left the job and invited me out for lunch with the rest of the group to say goodbye and I just don't respond to the e-mails or make up some crap excuse in order to avoid the awkwardness of sitting around in a big group and not saying a word. I completely stopped going out for lunch with others and thus didn't get invited anymore. Being honest, I really don't have much fondness for the job itself and maybe that impacts my mood. I'd say I come across as so rude. These are people I work with every day and I only ever really say hi to them at most.

It's funny because in my head I used to think "these people are so rude they never try and talk with me or invite me anywhere. ". I'm not in their whatsapp group or anything. But I've realized lately, it's my fault because I stopped trying to interact due to my shyness. I think there is a bit of depression involved to. Like some days I literally don't feel like saying one word to anybody. I think it's because myself-esteem got so low from being shy. It's got so bad that when I leave next week I won't even bother going for lunch for my last day, I'll probably not even send an e-mail.

If i'm being honest, I find small talk tedious, especially when the person i'm talking to has nothing particularly interesting to say. I've listened in on the extroverted people chatting away loads of times and often it's like they're talking for the sake of it. With someone who is similar to me I could small talk for Ireland, but I stopped trying because the extroverted personalities always dominated anyway.

Sorry for the long post, I guess I just want advice on how to overcome this? Is it just about forcing myself to interact constantly and eventually getting used to it? Do shy people come across as rude and unfriendly? I've been like this for years. To be honest it's ruining my life because i'm not happy with being this way. I ruined college for myself for being this way and now I've ruined my first post-college job.

LegacyUser

I’ve been there so know how you feel and it's truly awful to be alienated from everyone, I remember my first day back at college after Christmas once when I was in a small class, everyone chatting away and I wouldn’t let a word out…fear of saying something stupid or something wrong and at the end of the day I just felt like crying. I was invited to a party but didn’t go because I just thought what is the point when I can’t even interact with people on a day to day basis.

I definitely feel looking back on it that I came across as a rude b!tch but have no choice but to let that all go now because I can’t change how I was at that time. Anyway, at the end of the college course I was taking I had enough and went to a doctor for the social anxiety issues I have, she prescribed me anti-anxiety medication, and now 6 months later I feel 1000 times better and have realised I was probably a bit depressed too because of being isolated from my peers. Unfortunately because I’m finished college and don’t have a job (yet!) it’s hard to see how improved I would be in those situations.

Anyway my advice would be to go to a doctor and seek help even though I was hesitant about going on any medication, I’m so glad I did and even though I know I can’t stay on the medication forever it’s a great starting point and hopefully I’ll do some CBT soon to complement the medication and eventually get off them for good. Try not to dwell too much on the past there isn't anything you can do to change it now anyway I hope I helped, good luck!

marizpan

In response to the OP, yes, you would seem to come across as rude.
Not a little rude but very rude to be honest.

You should address the issue as this will have a massive impact on every aspect of your life going forward, from career to relationships.


Don't under estimate the value of small talk either or those that partake in it.

You should visit your GP and seek help.
Best of luck

LegacyUser

marizpan wrote: »

In response to the OP, yes, you would seem to come across as rude.
Not a little rude but very rude to be honest.

You should address the issue as this will have a massive impact on every aspect of your life going forward, from career to relationships.


Don't under estimate the value of small talk either or those that partake in it.

You should visit your GP and seek help.
Best of luck

Wow, so my fears are true then. It's strange though because I've been reading other posts on internet forums and always been told it's ok to be shy and quiet. In fairness i'm not comfortable with the way I am and hence me trying to change. I will always smile and say hi to people if I pass by them but that's as far as it goes.

I've found my GP unhelpful. All they ever wanna do is prescribe SSRI's which I've tried and severely dislike. Is it just about forcing myself to interact with people despite the shyness?

jopax

I think you answered your own question really, you do seem rude.
I think there is a difference between shyness and the way you describe yourself.
You dont want to interact with people, shy people do want to interact and be sociable they just are self conscious and have a fear of speaking out and maybe embarrassing themselves.
You probably are shy but definitely a lot more going on with you. You mentioned you might be depressed and if your thinking that it probably is true.
Go get help, don't shut yourself away from people.
Not everyone has to be your cup of tea, you can still chat and make small talk it just makes the atmosphere nicer for everyone.

LegacyUser

jopax wrote: »

I think you answered your own question really, you do seem rude.
I think there is a difference between shyness and the way you describe yourself.
You dont want to interact with people, shy people do want to interact and be sociable they just are self conscious and have a fear of speaking out and maybe embarrassing themselves.
You probably are shy but definitely a lot more going on with you. You mentioned you might be depressed and if your thinking that it probably is true.
Go get help, don't shut yourself away from people.
Not everyone has to be your cup of tea, you can still chat and make small talk it just makes the atmosphere nicer for everyone.

I don't want to interact with people sometimes because of the shyness. The awkwardness I feel isn't fun. It takes any remote fun out of socializing for me. I'm not sure where you're inferring that I don't want to interact at all. I'd love to be that social, friendly guy - hence my problem.
"
But I've realized lately, it's my fault because I stopped trying to interact due to my shyness"


Anyone who is in my comfort zone would regard me as one of the nicest guys you could talk to. I am recognizing that it is my fault but i'm wondering how do I improve it.

Nichololas

marizpan wrote: »

In response to the OP, yes, you would seem to come across as rude.
Not a little rude but very rude to be honest.

You should address the issue as this will have a massive impact on every aspect of your life going forward, from career to relationships.


Don't under estimate the value of small talk either or those that partake in it.

You should visit your GP and seek help.
Best of luck

Nonsense. The majority of people can tell the difference between someone who's shy (quiet, clearly not comfortable socially) and someone who's rude by being quiet (quiet, clearly not bothered, snooty and looking down their nose).

Sometimes people who are the former mask it by acting like the latter, but I'm not getting the impression that that's the OPs problem.

Furthermore, as a formerly anxious introvert I can usually spot when someone like the OP is just not comfortable in a situation, make allowances and if circumstances allow try to quietly engage them and bring them into the group.


I do agree that OP should address this issue as it will affect relationships and career, though.

For me small talk is a really useful skill to have, much like being able to do your taxes; it's baffling sometimes, I don't know why some people seem to enjoy it so much and given the choice I'd rather not have to do it; but it is necessary and worthwhile so I practice and get better at doing it.

TheAnxiousOne15 wrote: »

Wow, so my fears are true then. It's strange though because I've been reading other posts on internet forums and always been told it's ok to be shy and quiet. In fairness i'm not comfortable with the way I am and hence me trying to change. I will always smile and say hi to people if I pass by them but that's as far as it goes.

See above. It's perfectly fine to be shy and quiet, as long as its not holding you back from things you want to do.

TheAnxiousOne15 wrote: »

I've found my GP unhelpful. All they ever wanna do is prescribe SSRI's which I've tried and severely dislike. Is it just about forcing myself to interact with people despite the shyness?

Force yourself to interact with people despite shyness, it'll get easier.
Do things that force you to talk to new people. Clubs (sports, hobby or social) are good for this, because you can just talk about club stuff until you're comfortable talking about anything else.
Take up some activities to help deal with your anxiety; CBT, meditation, sport, fitness -- whatever you find works for you. It may require time or significant lifestyle changes, but if you want to change you'll do it. Basically, make sure you get enough exercise, regular sleep and avoid alcohol.
As marzipan said, maybe you should see your GP again.

Good luck

marizpan

Some in the office may consider you shy and make allowances and others will consider you rude or even odd.

None of the above perceptions of you are to your benefit.
I'm glad your addressing the issue

Dial Hard

Nichololas wrote: »

Nonsense. The majority of people can tell the difference between someone who's shy (quiet, clearly not comfortable socially) and someone who's rude by being quiet (quiet, clearly not bothered, snooty and looking down their nose).

It's not nonsense, extreme shyness can and often does come across as rudeness. Acknowledging that fact is not the same as accusing anyone of actually being rude.

However, the OPs comments about the pointlessness of small talk actually do come across as kind of rude. Whether they meant it that way or not, "I find small talk tedious, especially when the person i'm talking to has nothing particularly interesting to say" really does sound like the OP considers most of what other people have to say beneath their notice.

We've all been in situations where someone is trifling on about something we've absolutely zero interest in. However, in my opinion, allowing that lack of interest to show is rude. The fact that the OP is shy under/on top of that doesn't really change that fact.

LegacyUser

Dial Hard wrote: »

It's not nonsense, extreme shyness can and often does come across as rudeness. Acknowledging that fact is not the same as accusing anyone of actually being rude.

However, the OPs comments about the pointlessness of small talk actually do come across as kind of rude. Whether they meant it that way or not, "I find small talk tedious, especially when the person i'm talking to has nothing particularly interesting to say" really does sound like the OP considers most of what other people have to say beneath their notice.

We've all been in situations where someone is trifling on about something we've absolutely zero interest in. However, in my opinion, allowing that lack of interest to show is rude. The fact that the OP is shy under/on top of that doesn't really change that fact.

Note the word especially here. It's not like i'm making it known to people that I find what they're talking about as boring, I just choose not to participate. But by far the main driver of my lack of participation is the awkwardness of trying to think of what to say. To me small talk is pretty much talking about things I don't really have an interest in. For example, if people are talking about politics I'd always stay quiet because I've no interest in it.

Sociopath2

You sound like a classic case of Avoidant Personality Disorder. Avoidants often come across as cold and aloof because of their extreme shyness and the defence mechanisms they develop to deal with it. Schizotypal personality disorder also can appear the same way.

When you have a personality disorder you're never just one. You will have varying degrees of different ones.

Read up on those two and personality disorders in general and go talk to a counsellor. This is crippling your life, you need to deal with it.

Sociopath2

TheAnxiousOne15 wrote: »

Wow, so my fears are true then. It's strange though because I've been reading other posts on internet forums and always been told it's ok to be shy and quiet. In fairness i'm not comfortable with the way I am and hence me trying to change. I will always smile and say hi to people if I pass by them but that's as far as it goes.

I've found my GP unhelpful. All they ever wanna do is prescribe SSRI's which I've tried and severely dislike. Is it just about forcing myself to interact with people despite the shyness?

There is nothing wrong with being introverted. You'll never be an extrovert so don't try. However introvert doesn't mean lacking confidence or social skills. There are very confident introverts all around you.

Being quiet is only an issue when you can't speak up when it's required of you. We are too quick to write off behaviours that ruin people's lives as "sure it's grand, he's just a bit quiet".

I have a guy working for me that matches your issues exactly. He can't talk to women and will never get married. No social life to speak of, still lives with his mother in his 30s because he doesn't want to live with or beside strangers. He will be stuck in the entry level position he is in because he can't ask for a raise or go for a promotion. He is in terrible shape but won't go to the gym with the rest of the lads because he is embarrassed. He knows he has issues, he has said it himself when I had to talk to him about how it was affecting his performance.

He is molly coddled by his mother and those around him when what he needs is a kick in the assignment and be told go get help and sort yourself out. Do you want that to be you?

You're an introvert and always will be. Address those few issues you have and you will find yourself becoming very happy and comfortable in your own skin.

ongarboy

I think the middle ground between being shy and rude is being or coming across as aloof. That is what can happen if a shy person projects an image that they look like they don't want to talk to you or have a negative expression on their face that makes people think you don't want them around you.

It's unfortunate as often that is exactly the opposite of what the shy or aloof person wants. They want to be able to interact, feel comfortable among groups and join the craic. This is where forcing themselves outside comfort zones and Cognitive Behavorial Therapy may help. It's very hard at first but does become easier with practice.

LegacyUser

if you would like to become better at small talk, op, id suggest learning a new language, as this way you are forced to use small talk to learn the language, by talking to people who want to exchange languages (ie learn english). There are free open meetings for this and its perfectly normal to go alone and randomly start chatting to another person there. In fact, you have to. (I would recommend a mediterranean language if you are looking for particularly chatty people). It sounds a little strange but in my case when I took up learning another language i changed from cripplingly shy to being able to talk for Ireland. Its also particularly good as you don't have to think about what to say, as you can ask them questions about the language/country/culture etc....
Just a suggestion, it definitely helped me a lot !

jopax

TheAnxiousOne15 wrote: »

I don't want to interact with people sometimes because of the shyness. The awkwardness I feel isn't fun. It takes any remote fun out of socializing for me. I'm not sure where you're inferring that I don't want to interact at all. I'd love to be that social, friendly guy - hence my problem.
"
But I've realized lately, it's my fault because I stopped trying to interact due to my shyness"


Anyone who is in my comfort zone would regard me as one of the nicest guys you could talk to. I am recognizing that it is my fault but i'm wondering how do I improve it.

It sounded to me like you didn't want to interact, I know what you're saying about being shy, but it seems like you gave up trying which ends up with the same result of not wanting to interact if that makes sense to you.
I don't see anything wrong with being shy, I am very shy myself too in large groups, but I do persist in making an effort in one on one conversations. Even if its only talking crap, its how you build up your confidence and usually have a laugh which breaks the ice.

Big Bag of Chips

Sociopath2, please don't attempt online diagnoses. Nobody here knows whether or not you are qualified to make such declarations, and even if you were it would be foolish to diagnose any sort of disorder or condition based on a few lines of text.

Noobascious

Stop trying to be like the sheep. Ur shy fook the begrudgers. U cud be gay. Just say in ur head ur bisexual and that might help otherwise shut it. Don't go to ur doc benzos are dangerous drugs and the number one er admission above heroin and cocaine. Think of the cover on fat boy slims album the fat guy with a tshirt that reads "I'm number one so why try harder". Go wan ya good thing

Sound Bite

I used to be shy years ago and was considered rude or snobby.

Try smile more, this will soften your appearance. When badly stuck make a joke of the fact you are bad at small talk. Any decent person will make allowances and carry the conversation until you are more comfortable.

Have a list of safe topics of conversation: weather, holidays, traffic, weekend plans, recent film releases etc

Force yourself to have only difficult conversation every day until it becomes more comfortable

Big Bag of Chips

TheAnxiousOne15 wrote: »

People have left the job and invited me out for lunch with the rest of the group to say goodbye and I just don't respond to the e-mails....

Well that's rude! Making an excuse to not go is completely acceptable. I've worked with people who never socialised with the group. Kept to themselves, didn't speak much etc, but were never considered rude... Just quiet. It takes little or no effort to reply "Sorry, won't be able to make it. All the best in your new job".

People can usually tell the difference between shy and rude. To be honest, my idea of a rude person is someone loud and obnoxious. I tend not to think quiet people are rude. I just think they are quiet.

But if you yourself think you are being rude then there's a chance you are coming across as rude. Quiet and rude are two different things, but just because you're shy doesn't mean you can't also be rude!

LegacyUser

Hey TheAnxiousOne15 your post really struck a chord with me, I thought I was the only one that had this problem. I too feel uncomfortable in work situations where I have to socialise with a large group of people. Sitting with them at lunch as you have described is a big one for me.
A few years ago I worked in a large mulitinational and I used to sit at lunch with a large group of people. It was OK at the start but after a while it became really uncomfortable as I couldn't get involved in their conversation. They were all in their early twenties and tended to talk about their nights out and places they had been etc. I was in my mid thirties and was not really a partying type person so I had nothing to contribute. I am quite shy anyway like yourself so I tend to run out of things to say after about five minutes.
After a while I got so fed up of sitting there like a dummy while everyone else talked their heads off that I decided not to sit with them anymore and sat instead with a couple of older, married people in their forties. I didn't say much in their company either but there were less people to be silent around so it didn't feel as bad. I knew that the younger crowd I used to sit with were wondering why I didn't sit with them anymore as I could tell from their body language. None of them said anything to me but I could tell they were offended and thought I was stuck up or rude. They even asked me to sit with them a few times but I said no.
I remember one time a girl from the group asked me on the way to lunch "Are you coming to lunch Michael (not my real name)?". I said "No I'll wait 'til later". She made a really sad expression on her face and walked away without saying another word. I felt lower than a snakes's belly.
Part of the problem was I couldn't get in to what they were talking about. You referred to it as small talk and that you find it tedious. I totally get that, I sometime call it "muppet-talk". Y'know, talking about stupid, silly things. I am not actually criticising it, on the contrary I wish I could do it actually but I'm no good at it. There was less "muppet-talk" with the older people so chose that option instead.
A lot of it with me is to do with self-esteem; I'm not good enough to hang around with those people as I don't have as good a personality as them, I didn't go to as good a college as them, I don't have my own house and they do etc etc. The gas thing is they probably think it's the other way around (that I think I'm too good for them)!
You said that you go to the bathroom if a figure of authority comes over; that's all part of social phobia.
I think the most telling part is where you said "Being honest, I really don't have much fondness for the job itself and maybe that impacts my mood"
I was the same in the multinational I worked in. The work I was doing was totally de-motivating and boring. As a result I wasn't in the mood for chit-chat at break-time because I was so miserable.I moved to a job I liked afterwards and I noticed I was a good bit more talkative. I bet if you were in a 9 to 5 that you liked then you would be more sociable
You say you are leaving this job next week and it sounds for the best. I think the main issue is that you don't like the job and that is the root cause of your problem. Find a job you like and you will be more relaxed and talkative while doing it. Try to be more pleasant on your last day(s) in this job and they will think "He wasn't so bad after all".
In my situation (that I described earlier) I went to a company night out after I had left and talked a bit to a few people from the job (including the girl from the group that I flipped off at lunchtime). I actually think they realised that I was really shy and it wasn't rudeness that made me shun their company at lunch.
That girl saw me a few months later while I was driving and gave me a big smile and a wave. Made my day so it did.

mapaco

I feel for you it's horrible and I've been told I'm snobby, grumpy, rude etc... Which doesn't help.
The mind races when faced with making small talk and then goes blank; cue feeling even worse-paranoia sets in and next step is panic attack. it's just exhausting and easier to avoid social situations.
after loads of counselling it is getting easier so definitely recommend that but I still get flustered and panicked by lunch offers-It's a long road but the sooner tackled the better.
After a bad experience with a counsellor and psychiatrist I gave up on it for ten years until circumstance forced me back into the system.
It really is dependent on who you meet-there are amazing professionals out there-It just takes a while to find them sometimes!
Good luck!