The anti-capitalist crusade of Pope Francis

Permabear

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lazygal

Are they still against communism or did that change? My father often said they had to pray for the conversion of Russia in the Good Old Days.

Cabaal

lazygal wrote: »

Are they still against communism or did that change? My father often said they had to pray for the conversion of Russia in the Good Old Days.

thing is, Russia has converted and now look what its doing.
the church is running the country and anybody that doesn't confirm to "gods plan" is being made illegal

The Black Oil

Permabear wrote: »

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Isn't this just the usual rhetoric under the social justice/poverty banner the RCC normally goes on about? How will it translate into political action? I suppose his popularity might drive it forward, somehow.

Pherekydes

Would this thread not be better placed in the Christianity forum?

world_weary

classic catholicism is left wing on economic matters , i see nothing unusual about the popes recent utterings

anyone who wants a religon which is right wing on economics can join the various evangelical churches in the usa

btw , im not a socilist but i find it odd that someone should be surprised at the head of the catholic church espousing redistribution of wealth

PopePalpatine

The first thing I thought of when I saw this thread was that there might actually be a use for the "fully baked left-wing vegan cookies" thread rather than neckbeards ranting about "sensitivity training" and sneering at the suggestion of "rape culture".

recedite

Bear in mind that Frankie is a South American native, and the RCC in that region has a long tradition of throwing up fairly militant socialist priests. In marked contrast to the RCC in North America.

He says of right wing economics

..This opinion, which has never been confirmed by the facts, expresses a crude and naïve trust in the goodness of those wielding economic power..

Its a point of view that you would expect to find in South and Central America, where corrupt dictators and tiny elites have been exploiting the majority of people for generations.

Ordinary people in North America and in Europe have mostly had a more benign experience from "those in power", at least in recent generations anyway.

porsche959

The Catholic Church loves poverty (except for itself *), always has. This present pope is just more up-front about flirting with socialism but JPII made similar statements.


* Papal cavalcade moving through Rome, 1960s:

https://mundabor.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/pope-paul-vi-in-the-mercedes-benz-300-d.jpg

Cabaal

Its funny, the catholic church is all against money and land ownership now but only a few hundred years ago they owned 1/3rd of all the land in europe, they got mighty upset when people tried to change this at the time.

1/3rd of all the land in europe!, I kid you not! (watch below for some interesting info)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1o8oIELbNxE

recedite

porsche959 wrote: »

* Papal cavalcade moving through Rome, 1960s:

https://mundabor.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/pope-paul-vi-in-the-mercedes-benz-300-d.jpg

Those guys on the Vespa mopeds look ridiculous :pac:
But the mounted hussars look swanky.
Back in the day, we were so envious of Rome that we had to have our own troop of flash Hussars for the Eucharistic Congress in 1932.
Afterwards they were used for escorting the President, keeping the grass down, and whatnot.

porsche959

recedite wrote: »

Those guys on the Vespa mopeds look ridiculous :pac:
But the mounted hussars look swanky.
Back in the day, we were so envious of Rome that we had to have our own troop of flash Hussars for the Eucharistic Congress in 1932.
Afterwards they were used for escorting the President, keeping the grass down, and whatnot.

Indeed, actually the photo I posted reminded me of similar pomp from the Eucharistic Congress.

Brian Shanahan

Pherekydes wrote: »

Would this thread not be better placed in the Christianity forum?

Conspiracy theories. The right loves framing any evidence based economic policies as a giant conspiracy by the bleeding heart left-wing libburrl pinkoes to make us all into slaves of the welfare states who bleed the Galtic creators of wealth and innovation dry with their laziness and inabiltiy to pull themselves up by their boot straps.

Edit: It is clear to any person who is willing to engage more than three braincells on economic matters that the junta pope is as deeply conservative and right wing on economic matters as he is on everything else.

BlaasForRafa

recedite wrote: »

Those guys on the Vespa mopeds look ridiculous :pac:
But the mounted hussars look swanky.

Not as fearsome as the Polish Winged Hussars though, now there's men who put the fear of god into the Ottomans!

Hotblack Desiato

world_weary wrote: »

classic catholicism is left wing on economic matters

Yes, that's why they own the world's only privatised nation state, the largest art collection in the world, a huge sovereign wealth fund, massive gold reserves, and huge quantities of property around the globe. Damn pinkos.

recedite wrote: »

Those guys on the Vespa mopeds look ridiculous :pac:

Nitpick - those ain't Vespas, just motorcycles with leg-guards, which were quite common up until the 1950s. viz.

Brian Shanahan wrote: »

Galtic

It's like the Baltic, only colder.


Permabear, I wouldn't worry a whit unless and until they start giving up their earthly goods and melting down the golden tabernacles (what does the OT say about golden idols??) to sell to aid the poor, until then they're still probably the most capitalistic transnational corporation the world has ever seen. Collect cash from the poor, give to the rich. It's a very successful business model.

Within living memory of the famine in Ireland, they were shamelessly collecting the pennies of the poor to build showy cathedrals. That tells you everything you need to know about these parasites.

Mark Hamill

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

they're still probably the most capitalistic transnational corporation the world has ever seen. Collect cash from the poor, keep it.

FYP :pac:

Brian Shanahan

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Within living memory of the famine in Ireland, they were shamelessly collecting the pennies of the poor to build showy cathedrals. That tells you everything you need to know about these parasites.

The parish recently sold the old parochial house (from when the parish had more than two priests, there was a separate house for the pp), for a couple of million. The house is sitting in a very scenic site, with 5.6 acres of land attached.

Of the funds raised, about 60% went back to Rome, 38% went to the diocese and 2% into the current pp's funds. The only people who contributed to the funding and building of the house originally were the ordinary people of the parish (many of whose defendants still live in the parish) who sacrificed quite a lot so that generations of priests could live in luxury.

Permabear

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robindch

Brian Shanahan wrote: »

Of the funds raised, about 60% went back to Rome, 38% went to the diocese and 2% into the current pp's funds.

Where do these figures come from?

Hotblack Desiato

robindch wrote: »

Where do these figures come from?

Indeed - they're usually extremely secretive about stuff like that, and no wonder if 60% is going back to Rome.

Vast tracts of land owned by religious orders in Dublin (and no doubt elsewhere, but in Dublin the land was extremely valuable) were sold off for housing from the 80s onwards - what happened to this cash??

Also much of this land was originally bequeathed to the RCC for religious and/or educational purposes, was it even legal to sell it off or should it have reverted to the heirs of the donor when it was no longer required for the purpose it was donated?

Of course no politician or garda is ever going to show the slightest interest in this...

Brian Shanahan

robindch wrote: »

Where do these figures come from?

Don't have anything official on it, but various reliable people locally have confirmed the figures for me.

MrPudding

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Indeed - they're usually extremely secretive about stuff like that, and no wonder if 60% is going back to Rome.

Vast tracts of land owned by religious orders in Dublin (and no doubt elsewhere, but in Dublin the land was extremely valuable) were sold off for housing from the 80s onwards - what happened to this cash??

Also much of this land was originally bequeathed to the RCC for religious and/or educational purposes, was it even legal to sell it off or should it have reverted to the heirs of the donor when it was no longer required for the purpose it was donated?

Of course no politician or garda is ever going to show the slightest interest in this...

The problem with leaving stuff in wills (at least in the UK and I think it is very similar in Ireland) is it is extremely difficult/impossible to ensure it is used for a particular purpose, or that it is dealt with in a particular way. In most cases, once the property is transferred the new owner can pretty much deal with it as they see fit.

MrP