2006 avensis - new engine or scrap

pollyhops

The engine is gone in my 2006 1.6 toyota avensis. Its sitting in a garage and he's told me it will cost €2500 to repair the engine (cars like this are selling between €4000 and €6000). So do I pay for the repairs or just write it off and try get some scrap money for it (its in good nick and has 5 alloys).
I kind of wanted to get rid of it some time this year anyway as the tax is ~€560 and was looking at getting something newer (post 08).
I also just taxed it it for the full year which I would get back if it was scrapped.
Can't seem to weight it all up to decide whats best.
Anyone any thoughts?
Cheers for your help

Willfarman

pollyhops wrote: »

The engine is gone in my 2006 1.6 toyota avensis. Its sitting in a garage and he's told me it will cost €2500 to repair the engine (cars like this are selling between €4000 and €6000). So do I pay for the repairs or just write it off and try get some scrap money for it (its in good nick and has 5 alloys).
I kind of wanted to get rid of it some time this year anyway as the tax is ~€560 and was looking at getting something newer (post 08).
I also just taxed it it for the full year which I would get back if it was scrapped.
Can't seem to weight it all up to decide whats best.
Anyone any thoughts?
Cheers for your help

Unlikely that you will get 2500 for it as scrap which is where you would need to be. I would get the engine done.

pollyhops

I'm also thinking maybe it would be worth something trading it in against a new second-hand car. Would I get anything for it?

jimgoose

What "gonned" it, out of interest?

pollyhops

Oil ran too low (and no warning light). The mechanic started talking about a lot of engine stuff that I couldn't keep up with but I think the cam or cam shaft snapped - something snapped. He said the whole engine would need to be replaced.

jimgoose

pollyhops wrote: »

Oil ran too low (and no warning light). The mechanic started talking about a lot of engine stuff that I couldn't keep up with but I think the cam or cam shaft snapped - something snapped. He said the whole engine would need to be replaced.

Ugh - VVTi timing-chain, most likely. Rotten bit of luck, but they'll use oil and won't put up with running very low.

sidcon

If you put a request up on part finder you will get a second hand engine for €400. I did it last year for my avensis. Then you just need to haggle on Labour

pollyhops

sidcon wrote: »

If you put a request up on part finder you will get a second hand engine for €400. I did it last year for my avensis. Then you just need to haggle on Labour

The mechanic told me a second hand engine would normally cost about €800, but he said because of some dodgy fuel going around, a lot of toyota engines have been affected and the price of second hand toyota engines in scrap yards has gone way up. He said he could source one for €1400 - am I being taken?
I'm trying to do my own research with scrap yards and parts finder too - haven't yielded anything yet.

colm_mcm

Sounds a bit odd tbh.

With scrapyards/partfinder you'd want to ring them, they don't usually bother with email.
If the mechanic supplies the engine you may get a warranty.

Ring IVI in walkinstown as well.
http://www.iviengines.ie/index.php?page=engines

pollyhops

colm_mcm wrote: »

Sounds a bit odd tbh.

With scrapyards/partfinder you'd want to ring them, they don't usually bother with email.
If the mechanic supplies the engine you may get a warranty.

Ring IVI in walkinstown as well.

Thanks so much for that colm_mcm. Just got a quote of €1600 for everything from that place in walkinstown. They'll arrange a tow too for €200.
Anyone know does this sound decent for a tow from Galway to Walkinstown?

Toyotafanboi

pollyhops wrote: »

Thanks so much for that colm_mcm. Just got a quote of €1600 for everything from that place in walkinstown. They'll arrange a tow too for €200.
Anyone know does this sound decent for a tow from Galway to Walkinstown?

sounds reasonable, particularly remembering what they offer, including warranty on the reconditioned engine etc.

your mechanic sounds a little bit disinterested in the work really. giving you a massive price tag in the hope of scaring you off.

what i've seen a few people do, is replace the 1.6 engine with the 1.4 engine from the corolla. it's a direct fit and there is only 8bhp in the difference (so it does make a slow car marginally slower) but they are much easier to find and if tax is your thing, the tax is nearly €200 a year cheaper than the 1.6, if you declare the change. you could probably get a 1.4vvti from a breakers for under €500 and fitted for around the same, if you wanted the car fixed cheap and chancey, if your only intention is selling it on.

either way, i think 4-6k is a bit adventurous price wise for a 06 1.6 avensis. if you want it to sell, you need to be considering a more realistic value of your car being €3-4k. this might also change your opinion on your repair procedure.

not the best examples, but a quick search turns up these

this screams ex taxi, but the ad states otherwise, lots of tax and test
http://cars.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/toyota-avensis-1-6-nct-taxed/8506860?offset=2
fair new miles but again lots of tax and test
http://cars.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/toyota-avensis/8377064?offset=32

for me, if i was planning on keeping the car for another year or two, i'd undoubtedly go for the IVI option. if i was planning on trading in/ up this year either way, i'd probably go for a 1.4 or 1.6 from a breakers.

colm_mcm

I've never heard of an Avensis with the 1.4 engine fitted!

Toyotafanboi

colm_mcm wrote: »

I've never heard of an Avensis with the 1.4 engine fitted!

Seen a few on TOC-IRL, a couple of 7th gen celica's with it too.

the main justification seems to be the availability of the 1.4 to buy second hand vs the 1.6 and 1.8 and the fact that they all seem to bolt straight up to the 1.6 and 1.8 box and engine mounts.

i'l see if i can find a link.

Toyotafanboi

http://cars.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/1-4vvti-toyota-celica/8108160?offset=11

1.4 celica

http://www.toyotaownersclub-irl.com/t23435-engine-wanted-for-avensis

thread on the matter of using the 1.4 vvti in the avensis

edit: not defending it as a great idea or anything, just that it is an alternative.

mayota

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

http://cars.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/1-4vvti-toyota-celica/8108160?offset=11

1.4 celica

Interesting.

Toyotafanboi

mayota wrote: »

Interesting.

it's not really all that clever.

i mean aside from the oh so important cheap tax, it's just shy of 50bhp slower and less fuel efficient than the 1.8 that was in there.

i can see why you would lob a 1.4 into a high mileage 16 eventless avensis, but they've probably made that celica slower and more expensive to run :pac: the biggest difference i'l guess is that a young lad 17 or 18 years of age could probably insure it now and if i was 18 again, that'd be awesome, thanks.

colm_mcm

Would they quote you on a non standard car?

Toyotafanboi

colm_mcm wrote: »

Would they quote you on a non standard car?

as is so often said on here; you'd have to ring and ask.

i could see it being a possibility, in a "typically irish" kind of way.

secman

A work colleague had a similar dilemma with an 05 corrolla ,Ivi put an engine into it for 1500 all in, one year guarantee. He could have scrapped it and spend 4k for a heap of sh..te. The car was otherwise very clean.

CJhaughey

I can't understand why anyone would recon a 4ZZ engine, the blocks are all the same only difference is the Crankshaft and pistons.
4ZZ-FE, 3ZZ-FE and 1ZZ-FE are all the same bore.

joujoujou

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

[...]

the main justification seems to be the availability of the 1.4 to buy second hand vs the 1.6 and 1.8 and the fact that they all seem to bolt straight up to the 1.6 and 1.8 box and engine mounts.

[...]

Sure they are.

But engine itself is not everything - ECU has to be replaced as well (or at least reflashed - doubt if anyone here in Ireland's able to do so properly), despite the fact that even with 1.6 (109bhp) engine so heavy car is underpowered - with just a 95bhp 4ZZ would be worse and more than likely even less economical mpg-wise. 1ZZ would be better choice with its 127bhp.

Toyotafanboi

joujoujou wrote: »

Sure they are.

But engine itself is not everything - ECU has to be replaced as well (or at least reflashed - doubt if anyone here in Ireland's able to do so properly), despite the fact that even with 1.6 (109bhp) engine so heavy car is underpowered - with just a 95bhp 4ZZ would be worse and more than likely even less economical mpg-wise. 1ZZ would be better choice with its 127bhp.

the ECU doesn't have to be replaced, nor does the loom. the only component that has to be changed (apparently) is the crank position sensor. absolutely the 1zz would be a better swap, but the 1.4 as i said is being used purely because of it's mass availability.

the ECU's are self learning. another interesting mod (although we are getting way off topic now), is people fitting the intake manifold, throttle body and injectors from a 140bhp 1zz to their 1.4 4zz engine and making in the region of 115bhp and seeing a good increase in mpg too. this "modification" is very tried and tested at this stage.

it's something i've been wanting to do with mine for a while now. 20bhp for 200 ish quid sounds good

joujoujou

Engine would run on (as you called it) "self learned" ECU, but neither performance, nor fuel consumption will be as good as it would be on appropriate ECU. Believe it or not, it's been tested by a number of freaks in my home country.

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

[...] intake manifold, throttle body and injectors from a 140bhp 1zz to their 1.4 4zz engine [...]

Yes. Heard about it, and that's the mod I'm interested in as well.

Although I'd be more interested in intake manifold off USDM 1ZZ engine, as it's not plastic.

Toyotafanboi

joujoujou wrote: »

Engine would run on (as you called it) "self learned" ECU, but neither performance, nor fuel consumption will be as good as it would be on appropriate ECU.

why is that?

i'd say shipping would make a USDM manifold unreasonably expensive?

joujoujou

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

why is that?

(long story very short) Because maps in improper ECU are designed to deal with other engine, giving different amount of fuel (for example) in certain circumstances.

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

i'd say shipping would make a USDM manifold unreasonably expensive?

Yes, it definately would. Unless you find US import in breakers yard - occasionally happens in continental Europe - my rear spoiler is from USDM E11 1ZZ corolla. Sadly engine sold already.

cletus

Do either of ye have links to any info on changing the injectors, throttle body, and inlet manifold? N not so much the astral labour side of it, but any common issues that may arise with the increase in compression, issues with the ecu etc. Any links or info would be greatly appreciated

joujoujou

cletus wrote: »

Do either of ye have links to [...]

Found it at last!

http://www.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/topic/137435-upgrading-3zzfe-to1zzfe/

Quite mixed, as thread's about engine swaps, bottom end swaps as well as what we're talking about.

cletus

Cheers for that jou. Was reading through that thread, and I've a question for you, if you don't mind answering.

If I change out the injectors, throttle body and manifold, but leave the original pistons are there any issues with the extra compression.

Also would I have to change the exhaust manifold, out will the original suffice

joujoujou

One of my colleagues in UK replaced injectors, throttle body and intake manifold and had constant issues with ECU going into a limp mode, presumably because of too small exhaust. I'm not sure if he sorted that out as have no contact with him at the moment, but will try to contact him.

And no, AFAIK pistons will survive, even though they're slightly different.

CJhaughey

cletus wrote: »

Cheers for that jou. Was reading through that thread, and I've a question for you, if you don't mind answering.

If I change out the injectors, throttle body and manifold, but leave the original pistons are there any issues with the extra compression.

Also would I have to change the exhaust manifold, out will the original suffice

Compression will not change if the piston/crankshaft or head is not changed. All that will change with intake mods is the engine will breathe differently.

cletus

CJhaughey wrote: »

Compression will not change if the piston/crankshaft or head is not changed. All that will change with intake mods is the engine will breathe differently.

Thanks CJ, had to check if it was the original you out the new imposter

Excuse my stupidity, I just assumed that with a greater volume of air and fuel in the same volume cylinder, compression would be increased.

I would be grateful if you had any other thoughts, info, comments or ideas on the swap as proposed

CJhaughey

cletus wrote: »

Thanks CJ, had to check if it was the original you out the new imposter

Excuse my stupidity, I just assumed that with a greater volume of air and fuel in the same volume cylinder, compression would be increased.

I would be grateful if you had any other thoughts, info, comments or ideas on the swap as proposed

Its an interesting mod and line that is of particular interest to me as we have a 4zz corolla.
Intake mods really need to have matching exhaust mods as well or the restriction merely shifts from the intake to the exhaust.
In saying that I really wouldn't like a noisy exhaust either.
To my mind the best would be to change the crank,pistons to the 1.8 1zz versions. And see what the increased displacement does for torque output. Longer stroke usually means better torque not revvability and as we know torquey engines are good to drive.
If this is done and the stock intake and exhaust are retained it should be a fairly simple mod possibly the injectors may need to be uprated but if the ECU can compensate then it should he fine.

cletus

So you'd recommend the opposite to the original plan? I.e. change out pistons and crank instead of throttle body etc.

I had been hoping to maintain it at the 1.4, hence the original idea.

Would changing exhaust manifold be enough, out would it be a full exhaust change.

One more question, are all 1zz engines made equal, or is it a case t that some pigs are more equal than others, as in would it matter if the doner parts came from an avensis or a celica

CJhaughey

cletus wrote: »

So you'd recommend the opposite to the original plan? I.e. change out pistons and crank instead of throttle body etc.

I had been hoping to maintain it at the 1.4, hence the original idea.

Would changing exhaust manifold be enough, out would it be a full exhaust change.

One more question, are all 1zz engines made equal, or is it a case t that some pigs are more equal than others, as in would it matter if the doner parts came from an avensis or a celica

The primary reason that I would go the internal route is that this would afford you the chance to drill the third oil hole in the piston, if it was not done already under warranty.
This stops a lot of the oil burning issues with the ZZ series.
I think you would have to change the full exhaust.
As far as I know all the ZZ blocks are the same, whether they are a Celica or Avensis.
I do know that the UK made 4ZZ have a different code to the JT 4ZZ engines, I don't know if that relates to any difference in the engines

lookinghere

Willfarman wrote: »

Unlikely that you will get 2500 for it as scrap which is where you would need to be. I would get the engine done.

I would get it done it up, you will get very little for it the way it is now, try some scrapyards for a used engine has to be one out at the tight price

Toyotafanboi

http://cars.donedeal.ie/view/8621075

Another 1.4 celica

colm_mcm

No pictures of the engine bay I notice.

I note that its 1400cc on the disc rather than the 1398 youd expect from a vvti.

Toyotafanboi

http://cars.donedeal.ie/view/8869372

Nearly doubled in asking price!