Starting Farming in my own name- checklist

Dickie10

hi all, i was just looking for some advice or things i may not have accounted for. im starting to farm under my own name this year after 4 or 5 years of running the farm myself eg making descisions on calving time, lambing, beef and lamb systems , choosing rams , bulls for purchase and generally farming away in all but under my own name. the father who is now 80 in october was at me for years to take over the farm and start farming under my own steam. however i wanted to kind of make sure i had agood handle on things so when i took over the transition hopefully would not falter. did a bit of reseeding, fencing and other small bits to make things easier. so now im at a point where i can take over into my own name.

Basically im looking for some pointers on who i need to chat to if anyone. firstly i will tell whatthe current situation is;
1) the farm is in my name since 2011,
2)the father still farms in his own herd no. i tried to apply for a seperate herd number 2 years ago but was told i would have to fence off gateways etc. this was too much work so i postponed this.
3)i get a rental income for the last 3 years from the father just for tax purposes as he farms land but does not own it.
4) im 30 and the plan is too take over his herd number , can this be done easily?
5) my father is of the idea that he wants to retire comletly with no money from me to aid his financial security, i told him his savings will soon be drained with day to day living without access to farm funds from me. he has a good nest egg but no private pension as of yet. what are peoples thoughts?
naturally i will look after him and my mother for anything they would need or house repairs.
6) i have the fetac level 6 agri cert (green cert)
7) there are no debts with the farm or loans of any kind, its currently in the black but fairly modestly.


sorry for the long shpiel but i just want to know from others what i should look out for and who i should see. im thinking my teagasc advisor , the farm accountant and the bank manager?

Miname

Get onto the dvo for change of herd no. Get onto the bank first though and get the account changed into your name so there's no hold up for subs. It sounds as if all the lands transferred already so no need for the solicitor. I'd say you qualify for the top up and if your entitlements are below average you should get a rise from the national reserve. Best of luck. Make sure you work the entitlements to your best advantage.

Dickie10

if anyone else wants to add anything id be glad of the advice

jack o shea

can you change name on herd number eg father to son, or do you have to get brand new herd number? same question for bank account?

stretch film

jack o shea wrote: »

can you change name on herd number eg father to son, or do you have to get brand new herd number? same question for bank account?

change of name on herd number not a prob a few years back anyway.
name on acc. may mean transferring money into new acc under your name , my exp anyway

johnno900

Dickie, I'm kind've in a similar situation, only I'll be taking over my uncle's outfarm which I live on in 2016, so would be keen to see what posts you get here!

I'm not sure of your tax situation but I'll include it anyway: here's my checklist to date in preparation for taking over in 2016:
1. Meet bank manager and discuss situation, clarifying requirements such as overdraft rates, term loan, stocking loan facility and associated interest rates (agreeing rates there and then can be risky, by all accounts, they're open to a bit of a poker game in agreeing interest rates and loan levels)
2. Meet accountant and agree most suitable taxation structure for your situation. This may not be such an issue for you as you already have the land in your name (i.e you have already made the step with regard to capital acquisition tax and stamp duty).
3. Register yourself as self employed with revenue. This can be done by simply completing a form off the revenue.ie site. They'll probably want to check on your taxation to date before issuing you with a tax clearance cert and then setting you up.
4. Complete forms ER1.1 Herd Owner and ER1 Herd Keeper forms off the Department of Agriculture website. There are different options on these forms, such as getting a new herd number or taking over an existing number. It'll look straight forward when you see the for. It sounds like taking over your dad's herd number is the way to go. You don't have all the messing of having two herd numbers on the one holding. Once you get the herd number, they'll want to test your herd to get you in on the testing circuit. (this may not apply to you if you are just taking over a herd number).
5. Apply for the young farmers scheme before May 15th to get 60+ euro per ha for the next 5 years. You have to apply before March if you intend on taking on the young farmers scheme AND requesting entitlements from the national reserve.
6. Apply for the national reserve. Basically, if your entitlements are below 250 ha including greening and you do not have entitlements on all of your land, you should be applying to the national reserve for additional entitlements which will be 250 per ha including greening. I don't think stacking of lower level entitlements is allowed if you already have entitlements on all ha.
7. Oh, apply for the Basic Payment scheme under your own name when you get the herd number.
8. Apply for GLAS, the new REPS which is can net you 5000max. There are loads of options, so there should be no excuse for not netting the 5k.

That's it! Good luck and if I've missed something, please somebody let me know so so I can add it to my list too!

johnno900

Dickie, I'm kind've in a similar situation, only I'll be taking over my uncle's outfarm which I live on in 2016, so would be keen to see what posts you get here!

I'm not sure of your tax situation but I'll include it anyway: here's my checklist to date in preparation for taking over in 2016:
1. Meet bank manager and discuss situation, clarifying requirements such as overdraft rates, term loan, stocking loan facility and associated interest rates (agreeing rates there and then can be risky, by all accounts, they're open to a bit of a poker game in agreeing interest rates and loan levels)
2. Meet accountant and agree most suitable taxation structure for your situation. This may not be such an issue for you as you already have the land in your name (i.e you have already made the step with regard to capital acquisition tax and stamp duty).
3. Register yourself as self employed with revenue. This can be done by simply completing a form off the revenue.ie site. They'll probably want to check on your taxation to date before issuing you with a tax clearance cert and then setting you up.
4. Complete forms ER1.1 Herd Owner and ER1 Herd Keeper forms off the Department of Agriculture website. There are different options on these forms, such as getting a new herd number or taking over an existing number. It'll look straight forward when you see the for. It sounds like taking over your dad's herd number is the way to go. You don't have all the messing of having two herd numbers on the one holding. Once you get the herd number, they'll want to test your herd to get you in on the testing circuit. (this may not apply to you if you are just taking over a herd number).
5. Apply for the young farmers scheme before May 15th to get 60+ euro per ha for the next 5 years. You have to apply before March if you intend on taking on the young farmers scheme AND requesting entitlements from the national reserve.
6. Apply for the national reserve. Basically, if your entitlements are below 250 ha including greening and you do not have entitlements on all of your land, you should be applying to the national reserve for additional entitlements which will be 250 per ha including greening. I don't think stacking of lower level entitlements is allowed if you already have entitlements on all ha.
7. Oh, apply for the Basic Payment scheme under your own name when you get the herd number.
8. Apply for GLAS, the new REPS which is can net you 5000max. There are loads of options, so there should be no excuse for not netting the 5k.

All the information re: Young Farmers Scheme and National Reserve can be got on the department of agricultures news page.

That's it! Good luck and if I've missed something, please somebody let me know so so I can add it to my list too!

Dickie10

cheers for that, as regards the bank account. my father is keen that i start the farming from my own current account and he retires with whatever is in his. this means i have to build slowly, he will be giving me a gift of whatever stock is on hand on the farm at this time. i just have to build slowly with cheaper stock, one option im thinking of is concentrating on upping ewe numbers from 80 to 130 split in early feb and late march lambing, i will also calve 20 cows up from 14. with buying dairy cross angus calves and finish them im hoping not to go into buying dear cattle too quick. what are peoples thoughts. the land area is 120 acres of good dry land

Irishmale

That's a long checklist.

I don't think Ill get it all done in time.

Doing the green cert now so thats done.

Applied for a herd number which is tricky.
The DVO are urging me to join one with the father. The land I have will be on a lease and he will keep a tight reign on it. I don't have to pay him anything; just work. We don't get on that well and I don't want the SFP/Grants going into his account as Ill never get them. Am trying to break away from his business and get going on my own. I am getting on in years. The joint number seems easiest and quickest but with the top-up and NR entitlement benefiting going into his account is a no go as far as I am concerned. This is proving tricky.


I don't earn earn a wage, just bed and board and whatever I have to siphon off that I need or a few small nixers here and there with tractor work. Been that way for 6+ years and trying to use the new CAP as a break away. This lack of p60 or statement of affairs is also proving difficult. Ill have to find an accountant.

March is quickly approaching and I think I have to be in by March for the National Reserve.

ihatewinter

^^^^^^^^^^^

Get yourself a joint account name. This is one of the conditions of the National Reserve, that young farmers must be able to show they have joint control over management and money.

Is he really that hard to work with?

AP2014

Irishmale wrote: »

That's a long checklist.

I don't think Ill get it all done in time.

Doing the green cert now so thats done.

Applied for a herd number which is tricky.
The DVO are urging me to join one with the father. The land I have will be on a lease and he will keep a tight reign on it. I don't have to pay him anything; just work. We don't get on that well and I don't want the SFP/Grants going into his account as Ill never get them. Am trying to break away from his business and get going on my own. I am getting on in years. The joint number seems easiest and quickest but with the top-up and NR entitlement benefiting going into his account is a no go as far as I am concerned. This is proving tricky.


I don't earn earn a wage, just bed and board and whatever I have to siphon off that I need or a few small nixers here and there with tractor work. Been that way for 6+ years and trying to use the new CAP as a break away. This lack of p60 or statement of affairs is also proving difficult. Ill have to find an accountant.

March is quickly approaching and I think I have to be in by March for the National Reserve.

To be honest you may have bigger problems than the national reserve. Will you definitely be getting the farm? You say you are getting on, what age is the auld lad?

Irishmale

AP2014 wrote: »

To be honest you may have bigger problems than the national reserve. Will you definitely be getting the farm? You say you are getting on, what age is the auld lad?

Don't know about farm. I'll have use of some of it for the five years anyway. It's a bit that he has no entitlements for. I have a bro that gets on well with father and a sister that does too but I am fed up getting nowhere.

He is 64 and I am 32. I just really want an independent income and see what I could do.

Maybe if I registered as a sole trader on revenue it would be enough to start.

Keep trying to tick all the boxes. If I make up a lease agreement it should be enough for my own herd number.
Then I heard that the YFS is only good on existing entitlements and not on yf NR entitlements today. That would mean I have to go joint and fight my corner.

johnno900

Dickie10 wrote: »

cheers for that, as regards the bank account. my father is keen that i start the farming from my own current account and he retires with whatever is in his. this means i have to build slowly, he will be giving me a gift of whatever stock is on hand on the farm at this time. i just have to build slowly with cheaper stock, one option im thinking of is concentrating on upping ewe numbers from 80 to 130 split in early feb and late march lambing, i will also calve 20 cows up from 14. with buying dairy cross angus calves and finish them im hoping not to go into buying dear cattle too quick. what are peoples thoughts. the land area is 120 acres of good dry land

Starting in 2016, my plan, starting from scratch is to buy in maybe 25 Angus cross weanlings and keep them on 30 acres. Make around 12 acres of square hay for sale - the horsey folk love this and you would have customers built up over a few years (I've been doing 33ac hay for last 5 years and its a real cash earner! Mr taxman can't count every square bale that goes out the gate and gets paid for in cash!) With the other 55 acres, I'm going to try direct drill spring beans. They get around 100 euro top up in the new CAP. 2 tonnes per acre x 55 acres x 200 euro per tonne + 100 top up = 27500 - 40 per acre for direct drilling - 60 per acre for spraying and seed - 75 per acre for fertiliser - 65 per acre for harvest and transport = 14300 profit for buying more stock and reseeding

AP2014

Irishmale wrote: »

Don't know about farm. I'll have use of some of it for the five years anyway. It's a bit that he has no entitlements for. I have a bro that gets on well with father and a sister that does too but I am fed up getting nowhere.

He is 64 and I am 32. I just really want an independent income and see what I could do.

Maybe if I registered as a sole trader on revenue it would be enough to start.

Keep trying to tick all the boxes. If I make up a lease agreement it should be enough for my own herd number.
Then I heard that the YFS is only good on existing entitlements and not on yf NR entitlements today. That would mean I have to go joint and fight my corner.

You need to have a chat and confirm what you will be inheriting if anything at all. Otherwise concentrate on getting an off farm job if you don't have one already.

Timmaay

AP2014 wrote: »

You need to have a chat and confirm what you will be inheriting if anything at all. Otherwise concentrate on getting an off farm job if you don't have one already.

And if the relationship now makes this too awkward a question to ask straight out, go talk to a sibling and see of they will ask him!

Irishmale

Timmaay wrote: »

And if the relationship now makes this too awkward a question to ask straight out, go talk to a sibling and see of they will ask him!

Could be a solution. I still want to be a farmer. Otherwise I would have left. I like the work and get on well with it.
That's why I want to get this done.

Does the YFS top up only occur on existing entitlements so it is only possible in a joint herd number situation?

Bullocks

Irishmale wrote: »

Could be a solution. I still want to be a farmer. Otherwise I would have left. I like the work and get on well with it.
That's why I want to get this done.

Does the YFS top up only occur on existing entitlements so it is only possible in a joint herd number situation?

Is it an option to rent a farm to be getting on with your own things on ? If ye don't pull great it would be no harm to let him know that you don't need his place and don't have to be around helping him out . It might start him thinking that you need to be thinking of the future and he might soften up a bit .

Irishmale

Bullocks wrote: »

Is it an option to rent a farm to be getting on with your own things on ? If ye don't pull great it would be no harm to let him know that you don't need his place and don't have to be around helping him out . It might start him thinking that you need to be thinking of the future and he might soften up a bit .

Well I would be farming my own bit like I said earlier. I just want to get my own herd number and not a joint one as I want and need financial independence.
That's where it gets tricky to get my own herd number and tax affair sorted.