New contra-flow bus and cycle lane, Upper Camden Street

dreamerb

New year, new facility.

I've altered my route home since the contra-flow bus and cycle lane on Upper Camden Street opened last Tuesday, because it's nicer than the narrow and often congested Heytesbury Street route I used to take.

It's an obviously useful piece of infrastructure, allowing cyclists (and buses!) a direct route from the bottom of George's street all the way to Rathmines village. No more battling lane changes on Charlotte Way and trying to keep road space by the Harcourt Street Luas stop and multiple very awkwardly timed traffic lights.

But...

Yesterday, I realised what was bothering me about it.

The sodding lights are not on timer synchronised with the other lights. They use induction loop sensors which bicycles don't set off. :eek:

Well played, road and traffic engineers, well played.

Orion

You mean you don't carry a ton of sheet metal with you on the bike?

Alek

My steel bike happily triggered a few lights around Stillorgan this morning

Doctor Bob

dreamerb wrote: »

The sodding lights are not on timer synchronised with the other lights. They use induction loop sensors which bicycles don't set off.

The only time I've used it so far, I was a bit bothered by the signal offsets, i.e. the apparent lack of coordination between the three new junctions, at each of which I had to wait a while. Then again, it might be a time penalty that a lot of cyclists are willing to accept if it means avoiding the Charlotte Way gyratory?

But did the lights not change for you at all? Or was it just that they didn't respond instantly? Loops often just let a system know that a particular junction arm has been 'activated', and it then appears at its appointed place in the signal cycle.

If the loops aren't working, tell DCC. It is, after all, supposed to be a contra-flow bus and cycle lane.

dreamerb

Doctor Bob wrote: »

But did the lights not change for you at all? Or was it just that they didn't respond instantly?

The one at the junction with Charlotte Way didn't change when (a) I'd already passed over the loop and been waiting for a few seconds at a red, and (b) the one to my left for Charlotte Way subsequently turned green. It should have changed exactly as you described. The appointed place in the signal cycle should be when the CW lights change.

I can take a little deferral of my gratification but yesterday (and Friday which is when my suspicions were raised) I had to wait for a bus to turn up...

Doctor Bob

The first time I used it I had to wait over 30 seconds at Charlotte Way, maybe even a minute, but it did go green eventually, even though there was no bus behind or in front of me.

After posting before lunch I decided to use it on my way back to work about 10 minutes ago (even though I had to detour away from my office slightly in order to do so- the things we do for our fellow Boardsies! ), and there was a taxi first in the queue, then me, then a bus, so the loop was well and truly triggered. I'd say you'd have to wait until a quieter time to test your theory.

Regarding the delayed green for the contra-flow vs Charlotte Way, I think that's because the pedestrian lights between the Bleeding Horse and the traffic island go green when CW gets its green, so the contra-flow green has to wait until the pedestrian crossing has gone red.

Three other observations:

When I was heading through the junction at 1:30 towards town, I noticed that traffic on Harcourt Road was very congested, presumably because of the new lights sequence at the Bernard Shaw.

The offsets between the three junctions seemed much better this time- barely any delay at all, though that might have been due to the presence of the bus (or the taxi).

I'm pretty sure the taxi mentioned above was not supposed to be there. Someone needs to nip this one in the bud...

dreamerb

Doctor Bob wrote: »

The first time I used it I had to wait over 30 seconds at Charlotte Way, maybe even a minute, but it did go green eventually, even though there was no bus behind or in front of me.

After posting before lunch I decided to use it on my way back to work about 10 minutes ago (even though I had to detour away from my office slightly in order to do so- the things we do for our fellow Boardsies! ), and there was a taxi first in the queue, then me, then a bus, so the loop was well and truly triggered. I'd say you'd have to wait until a quieter time to test your theory.

Regarding the delayed green for the contra-flow vs Charlotte Way, I think that's because the pedestrian lights between the Bleeding Horse and the traffic island go green when CW gets its green, so the contra-flow green has to wait until the pedestrian crossing has gone red.

Three other observations:

When I was heading through the junction at 1:30 towards town, I noticed that traffic on Harcourt Road was very congested, presumably because of the new lights sequence at the Bernard Shaw.

The offsets between the three junctions seemed much better this time- barely any delay at all, though that might have been due to the presence of the bus (or the taxi).

I'm pretty sure the taxi mentioned above was not supposed to be there. Someone needs to nip this one in the bud...

It's appreciated!

I am *almost* certain there was no pedestrian green yesterday - I looked around to see if there was any obvious reason the light wasn't changing and I'm usually very alert to pedestrian lights. But I'll observe over the next few days before sending any spittle-flecked missives. (Might even hold back on the spittle-flecking).

I'm not surprised Harcourt Road is busier, but might that be also partly attributable to the Stephen's Green traffic restrictions funneling more traffic that direction?

I should of course reiterate (even if, after further observation / investigation, there does prove to be a glitch on lights) that this contraflow really is useful and I'm delighted it's there.

cdaly_

Apparently, cycling along the edge of the induction loop is the best place to trigger it. Cycling across the middle of the loop is the worst.

dreamerb

Sorry for the delay in getting back to this. Work is seven shades of frantic. After Doctor Bob's helpful posts (and his cycling the route especially to check my allegations), I spent a few commutes carefully observing how the lights are working.

He's perfectly right about the pedestrian lights at the Bleeding Horse. The reason I hadn't noticed them is that they are angled so they're not visible to a cyclist correctly stopped behind the stop line. And if there are no pedestrians waiting, as has happened on a few occasions, you need almost telepathic levels of observation to discern what the delay is!

I've used the lane when there have been no buses and the lights do most definitely change so this is my embarrassed admission that I have *very* unfairly impugned the sense of those who designed the lane.

Timings aren't perfect but I think they might be tinkering with them, and once through Charlotte Way I don't have to wait more than maybe 10-15 seconds at either of the next two lights.

Thanks again also to Doctor Bob.

Doctor Bob

dreamerb wrote: »

He's perfectly right about the pedestrian lights at the Bleeding Horse. The reason I hadn't noticed them is that they are angled so they're not visible to a cyclist correctly stopped behind the stop line. And if there are no pedestrians waiting, as has happened on a few occasions, you need almost telepathic levels of observation to discern what the delay is!

It's not often I'm told I'm 'perfectly right'- I'll be keeping this one on file!

The pedestrian lights are interesting- the hoods aren't on top as usual (like an eyebrow) but to the side, presumably to stop bikes and vehicles facing the Bleeding Horse from seeing their colour.

I've used the contra-flow a few more times since we first discussed it, and a couple of days ago I noticed that the contra-flow got a green light at exactly the same time as Charlotte Way did. In other words, it seems the pedestrian light is actually responsive to the push button rather than an automatic call.

Anyway, perfectly right, perfectly right! Na na na na na!! (This'll go down well in my next domestic!)