Gray State creator found in *apparent* murder-suicide

Amazingfun

Creators of martial law film "Grey State" found dead, reported as murder-suicide

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/048345_Grey_State_martial_law_murder-suicide.html#ixzz3PLLVJAYt

I remember seeing this movie trailer ages ago.

Very sad news if indeed he killed his wife and child. Many on his page feel he was murdered though:

Amazingfun

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2915939/Parents-five-year-old-daughter-dead-family-home-following-apparent-murder-suicide.html

shanered

Seen that yesterday, is fishy alright, the film look set to be great, do you know if they finished production?

Amazingfun

shanered wrote: »

Seen that yesterday, is fishy alright, the film look set to be great, do you know if they finished production?

No...and I haven't really followed this but some of the comments mentioned that he'd just got a film deal for it with funding! I have to agree; it's very fishy timing. Poor family

Autonomous Cowherd

Haven't watched it yet. But here it is (for a limited time I guess..)

DamagedTrax

Autonomous Cowherd wrote: »

Haven't watched it yet. But here it is (for a limited time I guess..)

thats not the movie unfortunately, but it is a decent documentary by the film creators. a little rough around the edges as its an early production cut (you can still see production notes appear on the screen).

i like the stance the film makers were taking. not loony left, nor far right. they dont disagree with capitalism as a concept, they're just against the ultra-capitalism we see today. they talk a lot about the freedom to profit from your own creations, not the power of big business to buy up your creation against your will and profit from economic robbery.

i dont agree with their hardline anti-welfare stance but i definitely see the reasoning behind it (teach a man to fish etc). but the US is very different to ireland and welfare serves a different purpose to their government.

they're just as hard on the far left hardcore socialist types too. pointing out to them (to no avail unfortunately), that the current government system IS socialism, socialism as 'they' want it to be - 100% state powered socialism (except business and state are working together so i guess thats beyind socialism and into facism?)

i get what they're saying. allowing far left OR right ideals get in to power, plays right into their dictatorial hands (as we all know there is no actual choice).

Autonomous Cowherd

DamagedTrax wrote: »

thats not the movie unfortunately, but it is a decent documentary by the film creators. a little rough around the edges as its an early production cut (you can still see production notes appear on the screen).

i like the stance the film makers were taking. not loony left, nor far right. they dont disagree with capitalism as a concept, they're just against the ultra-capitalism we see today. they talk a lot about the freedom to profit from your own creations, not the power of big business to buy up your creation against your will and profit from economic robbery.

they're just as hard on the far left hardcore socialist types too. pointing out to them (to no avail unfortunately), that the current government system IS socialism, socialism as 'they' want it to be - 100% state powered socialism.

i get what they're saying. allowing the far left OR right ideals get in, plays right into their dictatorial hands.

Oh ok good to know! I had started watching it...about 10 mins in and to be honest I thought oh yikes another libertarian ayn randian yarn....but I will give it another shot. Thanks for clarifying

shanered

It is one of the better ones I've seen, there is so much tripe on youtube its hard to sift through it..

Reg'stoy

shanered wrote: »

It is one of the better ones I've seen, there is so much tripe on youtube its hard to sift through it..

Gave up after one person was quoted as saying Gold was real money.
Queues in spar will be a nightmare, "that'll be a 1/10 of a gram sir"..."sir, that's clearly a bit of sand on the scale"..."ok hang on, is there a dentist in the shop please".

American motorway bridges are collapsing and these guys reckon they shouldn't pay taxes. How do they pay air traffic controllers, do the barter hours worked.

He mentioned feudal lords, he was right you paid for protection to get inside the castle walls. Imagine a modern fuedal system in the states with there weapons. Besides I remembered reading somewhere that all the earths gold would fit inside Croke park. Imagine how valuable a coin would be, so to be safe I'll give you a note promising to cover my purchase with gold should you need it.......sound familiar.

Too much like freeman ideology.

shanered

Reg'stoy wrote: »

Gave up after one person was quoted as saying Gold was real money.
Queues in spar will be a nightmare, "that'll be a 1/10 of a gram sir"..."sir, that's clearly a bit of sand on the scale"..."ok hang on, is there a dentist in the shop please".

American motorway bridges are collapsing and these guys reckon they shouldn't pay taxes. How do they pay air traffic controllers, do the barter hours worked.

He mentioned feudal lords, he was right you paid for protection to get inside the castle walls. Imagine a modern fuedal system in the states with there weapons. Besides I remembered reading somewhere that all the earths gold would fit inside Croke park. Imagine how valuable a coin would be, so to be safe I'll give you a note promising to cover my purchase with gold should you need it.......sound familiar.

Too much like freeman ideology.

The main point i suppose is the whole monetry system is a joke, might be the only way now but its being controlled and manipulated outside of the public at larges best interest.

This cannot be ignored, and the issue of gold being real money is an underlining issue, and the gold standard has been used in much more practical fashions then the chipping of metal for barter problem you have presented.
At least it would stop the value of money plunging as it is now, but the whole gpld standard debate is for another time i would think? Maybe a new thread? Theres probably one there already my best guess predicts.

I think the main issue of the doc in question is how the dollar has highjacked the global currency and US interests are steering the world into a privatized policestate. Where the average person has no rights to the natural native assests which are in their local area. Water, forests, fuel and minerals.

I would argue that the overall projection of the perspective which is taken in this documentry is more on the pulse then most would like to believe and I could see why people would be in denial of the deteriation of our western society at the moment and the resulting inequality and control weilded by governments financed by intstitutions and corporations with their own interests at heart and leave the public at large picking up the pieces.

DamagedTrax

Reg'stoy wrote: »

Imagine how valuable a coin would be, so to be safe I'll give you a note promising to cover my purchase with gold should you need it.......sound familiar.

Too much like freeman ideology.

it does sound familiar, its how a proper note system works. unfortunately it's not how our note system works..

and hell, i dont even believe a gold standard can work! its crazy to think the world could just go back to it..

but a fractional reserve system on top of a currency not backed by gold, is a step too far. even the most basic economics show that up as a scheme doomed to fail at some point.

Autonomous Cowherd

shanered wrote: »

The main point i suppose is the whole monetry system is a joke, might be the only way now but its being controlled and manipulated outside of the public at larges best interest.

This cannot be ignored, and the issue of gold being real money is an underlining issue, and the gold standard has been used in much more practical fashions then the chipping of metal for barter problem you have presented.
At least it would stop the value of money plunging as it is now, but the whole gpld standard debate is for another time i would think? Maybe a new thread? Theres probably one there already my best guess predicts.

I think the main issue of the doc in question is how the dollar has highjacked the global currency and US interests are steering the world into a privatized policestate. Where the average person has no rights to the natural native assests which are in their local area. Water, forests, fuel and minerals.

I would argue that the overall projection of the perspective which is taken in this documentry is more on the pulse then most would like to believe and I could see why people would be in denial of the deteriation of our western society at the moment and the resulting inequality and control weilded by governments financed by intstitutions and corporations with their own interests at heart and leave the public at large picking up the pieces.

I agree with the general points of your arguments, but I also agree with previous poster that it is a bit of a turn off when the solution offered is some libertarian free for all. Surely there must be some more rational prognosis rather than some alternative type of macho willy waving. The guns and freedom uber alles crowd don't do it for me, the Mike Hockney 'I know everything' making me the most meritorious person in the world doesn't do it for me, the sold out socialists who have propped up market capitalism don't do it for me; I'm at a loose end...hahha.

DamagedTrax

Autonomous Cowherd wrote: »

I agree with the general points of your arguments, but I also agree with previous poster that it is a bit of a turn off when the solution offered is some libertarian free for all. Surely there must be some more rational prognosis rather than some alternative type of macho willy waving. The guns and freedom uber alles crowd don't do it for me, the Mike Hockney 'I know everything' making me the most meritorious person in the world doesn't do it for me, the sold out socialists who have propped up market capitalism don't do it for me; I'm at a loose end...hahha.

i think we need to realign our want/need ratio. currently we want a lot more than we need. for a truely utopian society, our goals should be firstly to produce enough to satisfy need, the want should be secondary.

to achieve this, corporate laws need to be pulled down and rewritten from the bottom up. laws that govern 'size/profit capability/expansion rate' based on if they supply a 'need' or 'want' product.

party whip system abolished. party donations abolished. expenses to be paid by government issue credit card with accounts published to the public every year.

and thats before we get into the nitty gritty of economic policy worldwide (such as total debt writedowns etc).

i like the idea of capitalism. i feel (as is stated in the film), that your creation (or hard work) should be rewarded. i cant see any reason why a person who innovates for the better of society, cant enjoy the rewards. but when corporations like nestle can openly admit to unit profits of 400,000% on one of their bottled water brands, we KNOW that we're gone beyond capitalism and into neo-capitalism/fascism.

its a massive MASSIVE subject and it doesnt surprise me that the status quo is as it is.

Reg'stoy

Debt does control us, I have to get up tomorrow to earn an income to service my debts. This is... life. I would need to till the fields or keep the livestock safe in any case if I lived under a feudal system.
This thread is... was he killed to cover some grand conspiracy that he was attempting to shine a light on.
The system we have is one that evolved over time and is the very epitome of the free market they claim to want. Indeed services, modern services, cost money, eggs will not get me an mri.
We see the same treat to expose the grand scheme here in Ireland and invariably they are made by individuals who embraced the free market and caught a monetarily transmitted disease, huge debt; unsustainable debt.
I feel empathy for them but I embraced the correct financial idoligy for me; I only pay for goods that I can cover with out incurring debt on an unmanageable scale.
My theory and it's a theory, the family concerned were in a financial pit of despair, like the poor gentleman in Cork recently. He was in unsustainable debt and choose an exit strategy; maybe his dearh would not clear the debt and so in a horrible act of 'love' decided his wife and daughter should not be made live like that.

We really should in this thread mention www.mabs.ie and other bodies to help anyone in a similar situation. The HUB et al cannot help you neither can other con men who sell magic beans to desperate Jacks.

Autonomous Cowherd

DamagedTrax wrote: »

i think we need to realign our want/need ratio. currently we want a lot more than we need. for a truely utopian society, our goals should be firstly to produce enough to satisfy need, the want should be secondary.

to achieve this, corporate laws need to be pulled down and rewritten from the bottom up. laws that govern 'size/profit capability/expansion rate' based on if they supply a 'need' or 'want' product.

party whip system abolished. party donations abolished. expenses to be paid by government issue credit card with accounts published to the public every year.

and thats before we get into the nitty gritty of economic plociy worldwide (such as total debt writedowns etc).

i like the idea of capitalism. i feel (as is stated in the film), that your creation (or hard work) should be rewarded. i cant see any reason why a person who innovates for the better of society, cant enjoy the rewards. but when corporations like nestle can openly admit to unit profits of 400,000% on one of their bottled water brands, we KNOW that we're gone beyond capitalism and into neo-capitalism/fascism.

its a massive MASSIVE subject and it doesnt surprise me that the status quo is as it is.

Yes Trax, it is a massive subject. And again I largely agree with your suggestions. I think the want/need thing would fall into the domain of realising the futility of the constant growth paradigm. Constant growth is the measure by which businesses evaluate themselves (and capitalism as a whole) and this is insane in the context of finite resources.

As for people who innovate being rewarded, sure, I agree. But I also like this quote from Buckminster Fuller a lot...

“We should do away with the absolutely specious notion that everybody has to earn a living. It is a fact today that one in ten thousand of us can make a technological breakthrough capable of supporting all the rest. The youth of today are absolutely right in recognizing this nonsense of earning a living. We keep inventing jobs because of this false idea that everybody has to be employed at some kind of drudgery because, according to Malthusian Darwinian theory he must justify his right to exist. So we have inspectors of inspectors and people making instruments for inspectors to inspect inspectors. The true business of people should be to go back to school and think about whatever it was they were thinking about before somebody came along and told them they had to earn a living.”

The idea that an inventor of some labour saving technique/device should get to live on a yacht eating sushi while millions starve just because he was blessed to invent something (like an Apple computer for example), does not make sense from the POV of fundamental happiness. No one can be truly happy (or safe!) if the world goes to hell in a hand cart around their fortress of wealth.

Anyways, as you say, massive topic and I gotta make the dinner :P

DamagedTrax

Autonomous Cowherd wrote: »

The idea that an inventor of some labour saving technique/device should get to live on a yacht eating sushi while millions starve just because he was blessed to invent something (like an Apple computer for example), does not make sense from the POV of fundamental happiness. No one can be truly happy (or safe!) if the world goes to hell in a hand cart around their fortress of wealth.

again it comes back to the want/need ratio. if we live in a society that puts 'needs' first, then it doesnt matter if a great scientist has a little luxury for his hard work. nobody else is in need and if they are, then their needs are put before the scientist's 'wants'. and im not suggesting he has a yacht or ferrari, just that his hard work makes his lifestyle a little easier and maybe he could save for that yacht, after all he did provide something to alleviate the needs of others...

if he only invents a pair of trainers, then he works in the want sector (and we will legislate the hell out of the 'want' sector. we tie their hands so tight that only the people genuinly interested in creating a sustainable and lasting product, will want to work in it. and they will be reimbursed a fair days pay but we will not let 'want' sector profits soar. after a profit ceiling is reached, all extra profit will be reinvested into the 'need' sector.

basically its like a profit share but only after ALL costs are met first. and i would suspect that if we could create that kind of society, we'd be enlightened enough to know that 'needs' stretch far beyond a nominal social welfare payment. needs start deeper than money.

unfortunately, human nature may be our biggest stumbling block...