Pushing silage with tractor

grazeaway

Have doing bale silage for the last 10 years or so but have been thinking of using the pit again. Usually do 1 main cut and then a few small cuts to clean up paddocks. Have my own mower so was thinking of using the put for main cut and bales for the rest.

Anyway looking at keeping the costs down so thinking of getting a lad with a wagon and push it up myself. As a self propelled outfit won't be much less and getting in a loader might not be the job either.

I have a 7840 with a quickie loader so I thinking of getting a buck rake to push it up. Plenty of grunt in the tractor just not sure about using the loader. Backed it for for years and won't be doing that again, not good for the back.

Does anyone use a tractor and loader to fill the pit and how does it work out?

td5man

grazeaway wrote: »

Have doing bale silage for the last 10 years or so but have been thinking of using the pit again. Usually do 1 main cut and then a few small cuts to clean up paddocks. Have my own mower so was thinking of using the put for main cut and bales for the rest.

Anyway looking at keeping the costs down so thinking of getting a lad with a wagon and push it up myself. As a self propelled outfit won't be much less and getting in a loader might not be the job either.

I have a 7840 with a quickie loader so I thinking of getting a buck rake to push it up. Plenty of grunt in the tractor just not sure about using the loader. Backed it for for years and won't be doing that again, not good for the back.

Does anyone use a tractor and loader to fill the pit and how does it work out?

Use a case mx 110 with a quicke 970 with a 8' fork on it.

grazeaway

td5man wrote: »

Use a case mx 110 with a quicke 970 with a 8' fork on it.

Do you have a weight box on the back? What about dual tyres?

This the setup?
http://www.truck1.eu/img/Agricultural_machinery_Tractor_CASE_IH_MX110-xxl-1716/1716_1408058354.jpg

td5man

grazeaway wrote: »

Do you have a weight box on the back? What about dual tyres?

This the setup?
http://www.truck1.eu/img/Agricultural_machinery_Tractor_CASE_IH_MX110-xxl-1716/1716_1408058354.jpg

I wish, my one's not as shiny.
Use it without weight box but it would help.
No duals and stable enough.

grazeaway

td5man wrote: »

I wish, my one's not as shiny.
Use it without weight box but it would help.
No duals and stable enough.

Yeah would be a bit worried about the front axle with the weight with no ballast I stick a box on the back when moving silage bales.

td5man

grazeaway wrote: »

Yeah would be a bit worried about the front axle with the weight with no ballast I stick a box on the back when moving silage bales.

A rake of grass wouldn't be any heavier than a grab of silage.
Using a loader is supposed to be easier on the front axle than a buck rake on the back.

grazeaway

td5man wrote: »

A rake of grass wouldn't be any heavier than a grab of silage.
Using a loader is supposed to be easier on the front axle than a buck rake on the back.

Have a 5ft grab that I use for the dung and I find it can lift the rear when digging in if I'm not careful.

td5man

grazeaway wrote: »

Have a 5ft grab that I use for the dung and I find it can lift the rear when digging in if I'm not careful.

I find the mx a bit light on the back alright, had mf diggers here before the mx no issues with light backend with them

grazeaway

td5man wrote: »

I find the mx a bit light on the back alright, had mf diggers here before the mx no issues with light backend with them

No plenty of weight with the back actor but the legs and small wheels don't give much ground clearance on the pit.

f140

it would be very hard on the tractor id say. Tractor loaders also are nothing compared to industrial loaders and I would be afraid of bending a ram or worse still the loader. you could go in with an industrial loader with the wheels spinning but I would be afraid with a tractor loader. The flicking will also be very slow. You might keep one wagon at bay but id say you would be under serious pressure if there was two wagons.


buck rake on the back would be a better job then use front for a small bit of cleaning or else a buck rake on front links but you probably don't have them on the tractor.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGtwVioEX30

simx

Know a lad that pushes up all silage with a ts100 and 8' rake

keep going

Throw in my own with 100hp new holland and front loader and no bother keeoing one wagon going and have done 2 wagons as well.have duals for her and back weight as well which speeds up packing.the past year we used a 2wd mf loader and she did it fine too but now all the silage goes in from the back, in fact the wagon backs out onto the pit and all you rsally have to do is spread it and pack it

st1979

What size wagon. Big difference between the farmer models and contractors.

blue5000

Ramp at one end of the pit is a big help too.

joejobrien

It depends what is coming into the pit /day......farmers outfit maybe 25/30 a day. A tractor will most prop. keep it cleared and depends on how handy one is and neat. Seen on lad boasting how he kept it clear from 2 jumbo............none too happy with the state of that pit and around the yard. If putting in 50/60 plus/ day (12hr) Industrial loader is required to
A. keep it clear and
B. KEEP IT ROLLED ( most people forget about this)
A tractor and loader will be no match for weight. This incls buckrake.
Although everything is possible, it depends how hard you want to drive the arse off it and higher repair cost or mind it and you will have it for years

keep going

joejobrien wrote: »

It depends what is coming into the pit /day......farmers outfit maybe 25/30 a day. A tractor will most prop. keep it cleared and depends on how handy one is and neat. Seen on lad boasting how he kept it clear from 2 jumbo............none too happy with the state of that pit and around the yard. If putting in 50/60 plus/ day (12hr) Industrial loader is required to
A. keep it clear and
B. KEEP IT ROLLED ( most people forget about this)
A tractor and loader will be no match for weight. This incls buckrake.
Although everything is possible, it depends how hard you want to drive the arse off it and higher repair cost or mind it and you will have it for years

Got everything there, especially the rolling.there is no rolling going on with precision outfits now adays except at the end and that is often skimped on too.a properly rolled pit will hardly drop after a week.

9935452

joejobrien wrote: »

It depends what is coming into the pit /day......farmers outfit maybe 25/30 a day. A tractor will most prop. keep it cleared and depends on how handy one is and neat. Seen on lad boasting how he kept it clear from 2 jumbo............none too happy with the state of that pit and around the yard. If putting in 50/60 plus/ day (12hr) Industrial loader is required to
A. keep it clear and
B. KEEP IT ROLLED ( most people forget about this)
A tractor and loader will be no match for weight. This incls buckrake.
Although everything is possible, it depends how hard you want to drive the arse off it and higher repair cost or mind it and you will have it for years

I have to agree. It might cost more to hire a loading shovel now but could be cheaper in the long run with regards bad silage .plus it gives the op a chance to keep the sides of the pit tidy.
We have a man who cuts 80acres every year and puts 6 new covers on the pit every year and never reuses an old cover. his reasoning is he is paying the contractor a wedge of cash, there is a lot of money in fertiliser, why would he try to save a few hundred when so much has already been spent. Its a system that has worked for him for years

agriman27

You should tell him about the new cling film oxygen barrier silage cover, it suppose to be very good and would be a lot handier than handling 6 covers

cjpm

9935452 wrote: »

I have to agree. It might cost more to hire a loading shovel now but could be cheaper in the long run with regards bad silage .plus it gives the op a chance to keep the sides of the pit tidy.
We have a man who cuts 80acres every year and puts 6 new covers on the pit every year and never reuses an old cover. his reasoning is he is paying the contractor a wedge of cash, there is a lot of money in fertiliser, why would he try to save a few hundred when so much has already been spent. Its a system that has worked for him for years

3 should be loads.

His reasoning is flawed, why stop at 6. If he used 25 he'd still justify it with his own logic. Daft.

joejobrien

cjpm wrote: »

3 should be loads.

His reasoning is flawed, why stop at 6. If he used 25 he'd still justify it with his own logic. Daft.

Yea you might be right but it working for him and hes happy......you wouldnt argue with a woman if she s happy, would you?:D

9935452

cjpm wrote: »

3 should be loads.

His reasoning is flawed, why stop at 6. If he used 25 he'd still justify it with his own logic. Daft.

I think you have mistaken what I meant. The pit is covered by two new layers. no old sheets, but the pit is so big/wide that 3 separate sets are needed to cover it .

sh1tstirrer

grazeaway wrote: »

No plenty of weight with the back actor but the legs and small wheels don't give much ground clearance on the pit.

I spent years backing up silage until I switched to an mf 860 there was never a problem with ground clearance.

sh1tstirrer

9935452 wrote: »

I think you have mistaken what I meant. The pit is covered by two new layers. no old sheets, but the pit is so big/wide that 3 separate sets are needed to cover it .

If you say 6 covers everyone presumes 6 layers how do they know what his pit measures or what size covers he uses?

td5man

sh1tstirrer wrote: »

I spent years backing up silage until I switched to an mf 860 there was never a problem with ground clearance.

Used an 860 here for around 10 years.
Good bit of weight but the flick was poor compared with the mf 50's .

F.D

Would it be worth buying a push off rake for the tractor, to save flicking the loader and also save having the loader up high with he weight of the grass, if the tractor was a little light on the back

lakill Farm

Pushed silage with a NH 7740 SDLP and loader. Grape was 7 or 8 foot and silage coming in from a JF900. trailers were been picked and dropped in 14ft trailers

following year they had a artic steer Manito on the pit as were side filling and it was only just about able to keep it away as silage was coming in quicker and in 18ft trailers

simx

F.D wrote: »

Would it be worth buying a push off rake for the tractor, to save flicking the loader and also save having the loader up high with he weight of the grass, if the tractor was a little light on the back

I have a wylie 8'9" push off rake and I'm quite happy with it, Jd 6210 will just about handle it but had uncles tm 140 on it once and was a proper job, brings a fair take of grass, well made yoke too, can get sickening turned around all day pulling out of spools, it'll take a couple of hrs to get used to working one properly, not as easy as it looks, if thinking of buying one get one with side teeth anyway

MFdaveIreland

In relation to industrial loader vs tractor for weight, many will argue against me here, but i say the thin tyres on the tractor exert more pressure on the pit than a loader with balloon tyres.

Contractors now-a-days are wanting to get to the next job and some will throw it in anyway at all, as the weather is constantly biting at their heels

Often heard people say the man putting the grass in with the mf 35 taking his time will be better off than people blowing it in every and which way but the right way, and this is reflected when the pit either sinks or is poorly fermented when opened.

I have rolled steep pits before with 4wd mf tractor to the point where the hydraulic oil runs to the front and lost power steering!, and i would say, in some places, a tractor and loader driver would need to be careful not to cope over when driving up the pit. also 4wd is a must if the pit is steep enough, and diff lock, in my opinion anyway.

I think if the pit is rolled the whole time is between than waiting until they are finished and try and to roll after the silage is all in

agriman27

I know a man with a redrock loader and he used it on normal wheels on silage pits for a couple of years, then he bought a set of wide ballon type wheels and he reckons it almost halved the diesel consumed in a day on the pit pushing up

vincenzolorenzo

We put up silage for years with a tractor and loader, in latter years with a JD 6400 and Quicke loader. Silage was being picked up with a Ten-X initially and wagon in more recent years. The tractor was well able for the job, can never understand people who think a tractor and loader wouldn't be up to the job! We used to carry a ballast weight on the back and towards the end got dual wheels to add some stability at height on the pit. Cutting up to 30 acres a day no bother to it.

joejobrien

There all able to do the job but it comes down to output per day
ie 30 acres /day will be no proplem for either option but go 60/ day now that sorts out the men from the boys
A tractor will be fine if you also have enough of capicity in the pit but industrial loader will put it in a smaller space
Have 7840 with 8 1/2 ft buckrake here pushing in 60/ day here , keeps it clear but the pit will go up faster than if an industrial loader was on the job.
Wouldnt be mad about facing a full season with her every year but she is bloody impressive in the pit

9935452

sh1tstirrer wrote: »

If you say 6 covers everyone presumes 6 layers how do they know what his pit measures or what size covers he uses?

My bad!!. When I was told he used six new covers each year and didn't reuse old covers and the pit was 80-100 acres plus whatever was left over from the previous year I assumed it was put on in 3 sections.

grazeaway

F.D wrote: »

Would it be worth buying a push off rake for the tractor, to save flicking the loader and also save having the loader up high with he weight of the grass, if the tractor was a little light on the back

Buck rake on the back is not an option to be honest. Did it for years when we did double chop and the back wouldn't be too happy with me. I'd nearly be more like to put a buck rake on the front if I had front arms (might be an option next time I change tractor).

Loader wouldn't be lifted too high so not really a problem. Loader should be ok as it'll lift mchale bales no bother and they are close to a ton nowadays. The older loaders were not really designed for that kind of weight but the more modern ones are much more like the loaders on diggers from the early 90's.

What I would be most worried about would be having enough hydraulic power for lifting and flicking the silage.

Farmer Pudsey

I think after reading through this thread I stick with the bales. For any people that make bales and are thinking of changing they should read all this

td5man

grazeaway wrote: »

Buck rake on the back is not an option to be honest. Did it for years when we did double chop and the back wouldn't be too happy with me. I'd nearly be more like to put a buck rake on the front if I had front arms (might be an option next time I change tractor).

Loader wouldn't be lifted too high so not really a problem. Loader should be ok as it'll lift mchale bales no bother and they are close to a ton nowadays. The older loaders were not really designed for that kind of weight but the more modern ones are much more like the loaders on diggers from the early 90's.

What I would be most worried about would be having enough hydraulic power for lifting and flicking the silage.

Use a lower gear and keep the revs at 1500+ should give plenty of oil flow.

Muckit

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

I think after reading through this thread I stick with the bales. For any people that make bales and are thinking of changing they should read all this

You should buy a small shear grab with the mower money and you'll have change for a few fresains

Nekarsulm

grazeaway wrote: »

I'd nearly be more like to put a buck rake on the front if I had front arms (might be an option next time I change tractor).

What I would be most worried about would be having enough hydraulic power for lifting and flicking the silage.

Front linkage and a push off rake, a lot easier on the body than twisting round to the rear, a lot depends on the location of your spool valve levers. Also sturdier than a loader. Only issue might be lift height of the buck-rake, but that also depends on how steep you keep the ramp. "Flicking" not essential, especially with precision chop, as a push-off can dribble it as you go along, and you're rolling what you have just spread. Any lumps, you can doze them , either going forward or reversing.

Front linkage obviously a lot less versatile than a loader, however, you might find yourself with a linkage that's only used 3 or 4 days a year.

MFdaveIreland

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

I think after reading through this thread I stick with the bales. For any people that make bales and are thinking of changing they should read all this

I partially agree, yet a days worth of 'hassle' rolling a silo, is no where near as bad as feeding silage bales, and having to get in and out of the cab to cut net off, assuming you are feeding a large amount a day, also, you get the odd one that splits of the spike, and thats a balls to.

Farmer Pudsey

MFdaveIreland wrote: »

I partially agree, yet a days worth of 'hassle' rolling a silo, is no where near as bad as feeding silage bales, and having to get in and out of the cab to cut net off, assuming you are feeding a large amount a day, also, you get the odd one that splits of the spike, and thats a balls to.

I have about 75ish cattle for the winter and feed 22ish bales/week. In general it not a lot of hassle. use a 2WD 65HP tractor 30 years old for feeding. remove plastic off one end, spike and take bale to pen take off rest of plastic and netting. Bales last 2-3 days/pen depending on stocking level so I push in with bale spike frame.

In general I put out 3/day from from a low of 2 to a day where 5 may have to go out. In general 20 minutes on average will feed silage every evening. In general bales do not fall apart it happens a few times a year gererally because maybe bale was hard to remove from stack. Bales are stacked 2 high.

No fluting around with tyres or plastic on a Saturday. Easy to judge amount of silage left in Jan/Feb and decide if you need to buy a load before demand rises. This year I did not feed meal to stores except to 15 smaller ones. Judgeing my silage I will need 25-30 bales that is two loads. Will get thrm in next few weeks. Lad delivering can spike them and land them in front of shed, I can feed in 5ish days. Th advantage is that if I bought bales in March I would have an issue with spoilage from damaged bales as weather is warmer and demand would be lower.

I think a lot of lads complaining about work with bales are making work for themselves

J.O. Farmer

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

I have about 75ish cattle for the winter and feed 22ish bales/week. In general it not a lot of hassle. use a 2WD 65HP tractor 30 years old for feeding. remove plastic off one end, spike and take bale to pen take off rest of plastic and netting. Bales last 2-3 days/pen depending on stocking level so I push in with bale spike frame.

In general I put out 3/day from from a low of 2 to a day where 5 may have to go out. In general 20 minutes on average will feed silage every evening. In general bales do not fall apart it happens a few times a year gererally because maybe bale was hard to remove from stack. Bales are stacked 2 high.

No fluting around with tyres or plastic on a Saturday. Easy to judge amount of silage left in Jan/Feb and decide if you need to buy a load before demand rises. This year I did not feed meal to stores except to 15 smaller ones. Judgeing my silage I will need 25-30 bales that is two loads. Will get thrm in next few weeks. Lad delivering can spike them and land them in front of shed, I can feed in 5ish days. Th advantage is that if I bought bales in March I would have an issue with spoilage from damaged bales as weather is warmer and demand would be lower.

I think a lot of lads complaining about work with bales are making work for themselves

Jeez Pudsey your keen to know what silage you need in Jan/Feb down to a weeks worth of feeding or are you finishing a lot out of the shed. A bad month of March could easily put back turnout dates by more than that.

Farmer Pudsey

J.O. Farmer wrote: »

Jeez Pudsey your keen to know what silage you need in Jan/Feb down to a weeks worth of feeding or are you finishing a lot out of the shed. A bad month of March could easily put back turnout dates by more than that.

No have a few nearly 3 year old bullocks ready to go 68 store I think. I gamble on March have a good cover of grass at present. Expect to be letting first of cattle out early march will start to ration silage in 3 weeks time, Also most silage left is high DM so that will help as well. When they go out they will be putting the heads down.

grazeaway

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

I have about 75ish cattle for the winter and feed 22ish bales/week. In general it not a lot of hassle. use a 2WD 65HP tractor 30 years old for feeding. remove plastic off one end, spike and take bale to pen take off rest of plastic and netting. Bales last 2-3 days/pen depending on stocking level so I push in with bale spike frame.

In general I put out 3/day from from a low of 2 to a day where 5 may have to go out. In general 20 minutes on average will feed silage every evening. In general bales do not fall apart it happens a few times a year gererally because maybe bale was hard to remove from stack. Bales are stacked 2 high.

No fluting around with tyres or plastic on a Saturday. Easy to judge amount of silage left in Jan/Feb and decide if you need to buy a load before demand rises. This year I did not feed meal to stores except to 15 smaller ones. Judgeing my silage I will need 25-30 bales that is two loads. Will get thrm in next few weeks. Lad delivering can spike them and land them in front of shed, I can feed in 5ish days. Th advantage is that if I bought bales in March I would have an issue with spoilage from damaged bales as weather is warmer and demand would be lower.

I think a lot of lads complaining about work with bales are making work for themselves

Bale work isn't the main driver it's the cost, silage cost me over 5k a year with the cost of and getting the lad to bale, draw wrap and stack and the plastic. I used bale and wrap in the field then bring them in my self with the tractor and trailer. Not really a ideal asi find the tanco wrapper on a loader gives a way better wrapping and a way less handling also much less likly to get them caught on a branch or bire. Use a lad with a keltec to draw in the bales and a lot less traffic on the fields.