Is it right to malign the deceased?

Gerri666

What do you think? Lots of people have opinions on lots of things - we hear gossip and form an opinion (usually a wrong one) about an individual or we read newspapers and form an opinion about a person in a story. Of course it is a well known fact that a newspaper will NEVER misrepresent the truth or only tell half a story to make their report much more dramatic.

So my question is . . . Is it right to read a newspaper story about someone's death and feel free to describe the deceased in very abusive and downright disgusting terms withour having all the facts and without ever having met that person. NO IT ISN'T!!!

SEE THE THREAD
Man dies after getting head stuck in patio door


These comments cause extreme hurt to the family and simply make a near unbearable situation intolerable.

So readers, any comments or opinions on this?

MagicIRL

Have you been waiting over four years to make your debut thread and this is it?

_Kaiser_

I don't believe in this thing of "not speaking ill of the dead... er, just cause!" no

Just cause someone died doesn't change anything about what they were in life.

Señor Fancy Pants

Are you a Devil worshiper Gerri?

Kevin McCloud

The dead cant defend themselves.

Señor Fancy Pants

Kevin McCloud wrote: »

The dead cant defend themselves.

Eh,....zombies!

fiachr_a

Gerri666 wrote: »

So readers, any comments or opinions on this?

If someone climbs a mountain and dies then they deserve ridicule for deliberately risking their life and losing.

Zambia

Kevin McCloud wrote: »

The dead cant defend themselves.

The have greater symptoms to worry about than gossip though?

Be a good person and chances are you need not concern yourself

wil

Kevin McCloud wrote: »

The dead cant defend themselves.

Boo!

Kevin McCloud

Zambia wrote: »

The have greater symptoms to worry about than gossip though?

I dont know never had a conversation with a dead person.

somefeen

I remember when Charlie Haughey died.
Everyone was suddenly very sympathetic. "Oh shur if you were in his situation you'd have done the same" "Oh but he did great things for his constituents".
He was a thieving scumbag the day before he died and some kind of cute hoor chancer the next day.

That said I dont agree with the likes of the Darwin awards etc. People make mistakes and or absent mindedly do silly things and sometimes they die because of it. Those deaths should be treated as tragedies and not ridiculed.

kfallon

If you were a cúnt when you were alive you'll still be a cúnt when you're dead

Gerri666

Just out of interest. . . does anyone who replied to my post actually know Eoin personally????

And please refrain from making personal comments about me, I have not made any personal comments about you. But feel free to comment about the post.

Zemuppet

kfallon wrote: »

If you were a cúnt when you were alive you'll still be a cúnt when you're dead

^^^^
This. Sick of hearing people say nice things about scumbags when they die. Sure remember the response of those knuckle-draggers two years ago who stole a taxi on O'Connell Street and crashed and died. Not an ounce of sympathy from me, but some people still say don't disrespect the dead???

RayM

Zemuppet wrote: »

Sure remember the response of those knuckle-draggers two years ago who stole a taxi on O'Connell Street and crashed and died. Not an ounce of sympathy from me, but some people still say don't disrespect the dead???

rip, cant stop cryin so sad, heavans got a new angle now sleep tight hun luv u xx

thelad95

I always thought the whole 'not speaking ill of the dead' was more to do with respect for the grieving family and friends. So in a small Irish town, it is likely that any slander/gossip would get back to the dead persons family.

Most Irish people bitch a lot, meaning a person can't defend themselves either it's no different to speaking ill of the dead.

One thing I hate in Irish society is the glorification of people who die. Somebody could've been a violent dog rapist but once they die, it's all 'Jaysus they had a tough life' and 'ah sure there was no harm in really' when that person may have been an absolute bóllocks.

RayM

thelad95 wrote: »

One thing I hate in Irish society is the glorification of people who die. Somebody could've been a violent dog rapist but once they die, it's all 'Jaysus they had a tough life' and 'ah sure there was no harm in really' when that person may have been an absolute bóllocks.

"I'll say one thing about him... he was very fond of animals."

wendell borton

fiachr_a wrote: »

If someone climbs a mountain and dies then they deserve ridicule for deliberately risking their life and losing.

Or maybe admiration, for having the balls to push themselves.

Gerri666

Still no-one who knew Eoin personally? Just those who read misrepresented facts in the papers and feel free to form biased opinions.

Find out all the facts before you make up your mind. Lets speak hypothetically, say there is a durg dealer in town and he offers free drugs to kids to get them hooked. Lets say one of these kids gets a bit older and although he is legally now an adult he would be wat you call 'a bit naive'. This lad goes into rehab and cleans himself up. Meanwhile the dealer is still dishing out the drugs. Then the lad comes home and decides that he can't sit back and see more kids become addicts like he was. So anytime he sees the dealer outside the schools or at a playground handing out his drugs this lad goes for him and runs him off. The dealer than reports the lad to the Gardi and the lad is arrested. This situation goes on continually and the lad is arrested many times but is never sent to prison because of the circumstances.

The dealer is cunning enough to never end up in the dock himself. He is manipulative enough to make sure that he controls through fear so that no-one will tell on him. Now the lad is dead and the dealer is still living in the town. If we had more people like Eoin the world would be a better place.

He had a huge turnout for his funeral - most of his local area was there. Does that sound like a criminal to you? No-one who knew him has a bad word to say about him? Plenty of people thought the world of him and will tell you that he was one person who wasn't afraid to stand up for right even if he did end up in trouble for doing so.

_Kaiser_

Gerri666 wrote: »

Still no-one who knew Eoin personally? Just those who read misrepresented facts in the papers and feel free to form biased opinions.

Find out all the facts before you make up your mind. Lets speak hypothetically, say there is a durg dealer in town and he offers free drugs to kids to get them hooked. Lets say one of these kids gets a bit older and although he is legally now an adult he would be wat you call 'a bit naive'. This lad goes into rehab and cleans himself up. Meanwhile the dealer is still dishing out the drugs. Then the lad comes home and decides that he can't sit back and see more kids become addicts like he was. So anytime he sees the dealer outside the schools or at a playground handing out his drugs this lad goes for him and runs him off. The dealer than reports the lad to the Gardi and the lad is arrested. This situation goes on continually and the lad is arrested many times but is never sent to prison because of the circumstances.

The dealer is cunning enough to never end up in the dock himself. He is manipulative enough to make sure that he controls through fear so that no-one will tell on him. Now the lad is dead and the dealer is still living in the town. If we had more people like Eoin the world would be a better place.

He had a huge turnout for his funeral - most of his local area was there. Does that sound like a criminal to you? No-one who knew him has a bad word to say about him? Plenty of people thought the world of him and will tell you that he was one person who wasn't afraid to stand up for right even if he did end up in trouble for doing so.

er .. what?

I'm not sure where you're going with your analogy, but no, I have no idea who "Eoin" was nor does anyone in this thread I'd imagine.

I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make but the question was "is it right to malign the deceased" - answer in my opinion is that if they deserved it in life then yes!

anplaya27

lovely fella eh?

DUNLEER man, Eoin Carney who assaulted and robbed a worker after jumping in front of his car has been given nine sentences totaling 12 months at Drogheda District Court.


Judge Flann Brennan said the attack on the man who had been driving from his home in Highlands down the Rathmullen Road at 6am on May 28th, 2011 was 'horrifying'.

Carney, who has 31 previous convictions, ran out in the road and stopped the car. He put his two hands on the bonnet and demanded a lift from the driver. When he got out to speak to him, Carney started to punch him in the face and also on the back of the head.

While he was trying to get the victim's phone and car keys, efforts were made by Carney's friends to try and stop him.

The victim was taken by ambulance to Our Lady of Lourdes Hospital suffering from shock and bleeding from his face and head. He was later discharged from hospital and is making a good recovery, the court was told.

A local resident who saw the commotion, called the gardai and they arrested Carney.

As well as being charged with assault causing harm and attempted robbery on May 28th, 2011, Carney, 53 Beechwood Drive, Dunleer, was also charged with unauthorised carriage in an MPV at Trinity Street on June 15th.

He was also charged with unlawful possession of drugs at Watery Hill on June 1st, 2011 at Watery Hill.

He was also appeared in relation to a number of charges in Dunleer on February 9th and 10th, 2011. These included making off without payment from Spar, criminal damage at Main Street Dunleer, assault, assault causing harm, and obstructing a peace officer at Beechwood Drive, Dunleer.

There was a further assault charge in Dunleer on June 13th, 2011.

Speaking before he handed down the nine convictions which ranged from six months to a year, Judge Flann Brennan said these were 'a catalogue of offences'. He said he should serve 12 months 'not a day less' and described the Rathmullen attack as 'particularly horrifying'.

Referring to the Dunleer incidents, the judge said: ' These are appalling offences which include assaults on guards.'

Carney's solicitor, Paul Moore said that his client has a drink problem. Judge Brennan pointed out that many people drink and appear in court on public order offences. 'But what your client has done falls into a totally different category,' he added.

_Kaiser_

anplaya27 wrote: »

lovely fella eh?

DUNLEER man, Eoin Carney who assaulted and robbed a worker after jumping in front of his car has been given nine sentences totaling 12 months at Drogheda District Court.


Judge Flann Brennan said the attack on the man who had been driving from his home in Highlands down the Rathmullen Road at 6am on May 28th, 2011 was 'horrifying'.

Carney, who has 31 previous convictions, ran out in the road and stopped the car. He put his two hands on the bonnet and demanded a lift from the driver. When he got out to speak to him, Carney started to punch him in the face and also on the back of the head.

While he was trying to get the victim's phone and car keys, efforts were made by Carney's friends to try and stop him.

The victim was taken by ambulance to Our Lady of Lourdes Hospital suffering from shock and bleeding from his face and head. He was later discharged from hospital and is making a good recovery, the court was told.

A local resident who saw the commotion, called the gardai and they arrested Carney.

As well as being charged with assault causing harm and attempted robbery on May 28th, 2011, Carney, 53 Beechwood Drive, Dunleer, was also charged with unauthorised carriage in an MPV at Trinity Street on June 15th.

He was also charged with unlawful possession of drugs at Watery Hill on June 1st, 2011 at Watery Hill.

He was also appeared in relation to a number of charges in Dunleer on February 9th and 10th, 2011. These included making off without payment from Spar, criminal damage at Main Street Dunleer, assault, assault causing harm, and obstructing a peace officer at Beechwood Drive, Dunleer.

There was a further assault charge in Dunleer on June 13th, 2011.

Speaking before he handed down the nine convictions which ranged from six months to a year, Judge Flann Brennan said these were 'a catalogue of offences'. He said he should serve 12 months 'not a day less' and described the Rathmullen attack as 'particularly horrifying'.

Referring to the Dunleer incidents, the judge said: ' These are appalling offences which include assaults on guards.'

Carney's solicitor, Paul Moore said that his client has a drink problem. Judge Brennan pointed out that many people drink and appear in court on public order offences. 'But what your client has done falls into a totally different category,' he added.

That answers that then!

Señor Fancy Pants

Gerri666 wrote: »

Find out all the facts before you make up your mind. Lets speak hypothetically

Huh, that sentence makes sense! :rolleyes:

Ok....so I take it you knew this guy personally and don't like the content of the other thread?

You gave us a "hypothetical" analogy to try and change peoples views on a person they never met. The only information most of us have here is from the media or on thread information. Why does your "hypothetical" story carry more weight than media reports or other facts.

He may have been a really nice guy, I don't know. All I know is he had 50 previous convictions and died breaking into a house. Yeah it was his friends house and yes people gave the same stereotypical 1 sentence narrative about the guy.

Have you got in depth knowledge of everything you have commented on in the past? I doubt it.

padd b1975

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

That answers that then!

Doesn't answer how he got stuck in the patio door, which is all I'm really interested in.

Gerri666

I can't say anything that isn't already public knowledge as there is an ongoing investigation.

I knew Eoin well for years. My husband has known him from the day he was born and we both live in Dunleer. We have a family and I spent many a day with them at the local playground and have seen the dealer there and at the school. I was more than happy that someone like Eoin took it upon himself to keep that man away from children.

His mum is devestated and nasty and cruel comments made so publically are only causing her more hurt.

A newspaper will only report what they see on the surface. I will agree that in nearly all cases the person is as they are represented in the papers and, until now, I woas one of those people who will read a story and think that the world is a better place without that person. But I now see that the way in which a person is shown by the media is not alway true and it certainly isn't in this case.

padd b1975

Gerri666 wrote: »

His mum is devestated and nasty and cruel comments made so publically are only causing her more hurt.

How are his victims getting on with their recoveries?

anplaya27

Gerri666 wrote: »

I can't say anything that isn't already public knowledge as there is an ongoing investigation.

I knew Eoin well for years. My husband has known him from the day he was born and we both live in Dunleer. We have a family and I spent many a day with them at the local playground and have seen the dealer there and at the school. I was more than happy that someone like Eoin took it upon himself to keep that man away from children.

His mum is devestated and nasty and cruel comments made so publically are only causing her more hurt.

A newspaper will only report what they see on the surface. I will agree that in nearly all cases the person is as they are represented in the papers and, until now, I woas one of those people who will read a story and think that the world is a better place without that person. But I now see that the way in which a person is shown by the media is not alway true and it certainly isn't in this case.

He was also charged with unlawful possession of drugs at Watery Hill on June 1st, 2011 at Watery Hill

maybe cause the other dealer was cutting into his profit?

anplaya27

Gerri666 wrote: »

I can't say anything that isn't already public knowledge as there is an ongoing investigation.

I knew Eoin well for years. My husband has known him from the day he was born and we both live in Dunleer. We have a family and I spent many a day with them at the local playground and have seen the dealer there and at the school. I was more than happy that someone like Eoin took it upon himself to keep that man away from children.

His mum is devestated and nasty and cruel comments made so publically are only causing her more hurt.

A newspaper will only report what they see on the surface. I will agree that in nearly all cases the person is as they are represented in the papers and, until now, I woas one of those people who will read a story and think that the world is a better place without that person. But I now see that the way in which a person is shown by the media is not alway true and it certainly isn't in this case.

He was also charged with unlawful possession of drugs at Watery Hill on June 1st, 2011 at Watery Hill

maybe cause the other dealer was cutting into his profit so he ran him off?

pablo128

Gerri666 wrote: »

I can't say anything that isn't already public knowledge as there is an ongoing investigation.

I knew Eoin well for years. My husband has known him from the day he was born and we both live in Dunleer. We have a family and I spent many a day with them at the local playground and have seen the dealer there and at the school. I was more than happy that someone like Eoin took it upon himself to keep that man away from children.

His mum is devestated and nasty and cruel comments made so publically are only causing her more hurt.

A newspaper will only report what they see on the surface. I will agree that in nearly all cases the person is as they are represented in the papers and, until now, I woas one of those people who will read a story and think that the world is a better place without that person. But I now see that the way in which a person is shown by the media is not alway true and it certainly isn't in this case.

What did he work at if you don't mind me asking?:rolleyes:

As it happens, a deceased family member of mine will be back in the headlines very soon as a result of a court case. I'm sure there will be disparaging comments about him. In fairness now it would be difficult to defend him from most of the comments, as much as it might upset me. I'm afraid you're just gonna have to take it on the chin.

Señor Fancy Pants

Gerri666 wrote: »

I can't say anything that isn't already public knowledge as there is an ongoing investigation.

I knew Eoin well for years. My husband has known him from the day he was born and we both live in Dunleer. We have a family and I spent many a day with them at the local playground and have seen the dealer there and at the school. I was more than happy that someone like Eoin took it upon himself to keep that man away from children.

His mum is devestated and nasty and cruel comments made so publically are only causing her more hurt.

A newspaper will only report what they see on the surface. I will agree that in nearly all cases the person is as they are represented in the papers and, until now, I woas one of those people who will read a story and think that the world is a better place without that person. But I now see that the way in which a person is shown by the media is not alway true and it certainly isn't in this case.

While I am sorry for your loss, on one hand you knew they guy in his good light, most people have a good side but they also have a bad side. His good traits don't cancel out 50 previous convictions. That's 50 convictions, I'm sure some were minor but I'm sure he got away with a lot of other stuff too.

Is it true he had so many convictions or are you trying to say he was a model citizen who bravely confronted the evils in society?

Pedro K

Gerri666 wrote: »

I can't say anything that isn't already public knowledge as there is an ongoing investigation.

I knew Eoin well for years. My husband has known him from the day he was born and we both live in Dunleer. We have a family and I spent many a day with them at the local playground and have seen the dealer there and at the school. I was more than happy that someone like Eoin took it upon himself to keep that man away from children.

His mum is devestated and nasty and cruel comments made so publically are only causing her more hurt.

A newspaper will only report what they see on the surface. I will agree that in nearly all cases the person is as they are represented in the papers and, until now, I woas one of those people who will read a story and think that the world is a better place without that person. But I now see that the way in which a person is shown by the media is not alway true and it certainly isn't in this case.

So what do you have to say about all his convictions then?

FalconGirl

@Gerri666

Gerri take off the blinkers. The facts speak for themselves. With 31+ convictions, Eoin was no upstanding member of society. He would have been unlikely to change his ways if he lived and continued to rack up the convictions.

Buford T. Justice XIX

All i have to say is.......

Where is this other thread?

harry Bailey esq

First off Gerri,I'm sorry for your loss.However,as a poster above mentioned you need to ditch the blinkers. Do you honestly believe, or expect me to believe that this chap spent his time hanging around playgrounds chasing drug dealers away from kids?if you actually believe that then you are deluding yourself.No drug dealer worth his salt would hang around in a playground to find punters,hypotheticly or otherwise.That's an old myth started by the concerned parents against drugs movement in the 80s.
I suspect you are much closer to the case than you are letting on.If that is indeed the case,I would suggest that you get on to a mod and wind up this thread.
Noble idea as it is that you want to let it be known that this youngfella had a decent side to him,as I'm sure he did,its a very misguided idea.Coming on to a public forum with stories like that will ultimately only make things worse for yourself,and it will certainly make things worse for his family,because people will speak their minds,and you won't like what you hear.
I have expierience in this situation,so please dont think im being preachy toward you.I have many friends who have met with untimely deaths,three friends were murdered in seperate incidents in 2014 alone,so i get you.In each case, 'well meaning friends' put tributes up on facebook and stuff but they serve no purpose other than dragging out the grieving process.
The chap is dead,the media have had their pound of flesh,let his family mourn with dignity.
Again,genuinely sorry for your loss

goose2005

Kevin McCloud wrote: »

The dead cant defend themselves.

but neither can they be harmed.

FalconGirl wrote: »

@Gerri666

Gerri take off the blinkers. The facts speak for themselves. With 31+ convictions, Eoin was no upstanding member of society. He would have been unlikely to change his ways if he lived and continued to rack up the convictions.

Depends. Most criminals do wise up eventually around the age of 25-35.

However the Mirror said his number of convictions was north of 50 by the time of his death.

One thing I hate in Irish society is the glorification of people who die. Somebody could've been a violent dog rapist but once they die, it's all 'Jaysus they had a tough life' and 'ah sure there was no harm in really' when that person may have been an absolute bóllocks.

Maybe the presence of death makes us reflect a bit on the tininess of our existence.

Egginacup

Kevin McCloud wrote: »

The dead cant defend themselves.

From what?
Criticism? Neither can the living if they are deserving of it.

Gran Hermano

30+ convictions.
Slow learner?

shruikan2553

Dying doesn't remove all of your actions from the world, if you were a **** to people when you were alive why would anyone think differently when you die?

anplaya27 wrote: »

lovely fella eh?

DUNLEER man, Eoin Carney who assaulted and robbed a worker after jumping in front of his car has been given nine sentences totaling 12 months at Drogheda District Court.


Judge Flann Brennan said the attack on the man who had been driving from his home in Highlands down the Rathmullen Road at 6am on May 28th, 2011 was 'horrifying'.

Carney, who has 31 previous convictions, ran out in the road and stopped the car. He put his two hands on the bonnet and demanded a lift from the driver. When he got out to speak to him, Carney started to punch him in the face and also on the back of the head.

While he was trying to get the victim's phone and car keys, efforts were made by Carney's friends to try and stop him.

The victim was taken by ambulance to Our Lady of Lourdes Hospital suffering from shock and bleeding from his face and head. He was later discharged from hospital and is making a good recovery, the court was told.

A local resident who saw the commotion, called the gardai and they arrested Carney.

As well as being charged with assault causing harm and attempted robbery on May 28th, 2011, Carney, 53 Beechwood Drive, Dunleer, was also charged with unauthorised carriage in an MPV at Trinity Street on June 15th.

He was also charged with unlawful possession of drugs at Watery Hill on June 1st, 2011 at Watery Hill.

He was also appeared in relation to a number of charges in Dunleer on February 9th and 10th, 2011. These included making off without payment from Spar, criminal damage at Main Street Dunleer, assault, assault causing harm, and obstructing a peace officer at Beechwood Drive, Dunleer.

There was a further assault charge in Dunleer on June 13th, 2011.

Speaking before he handed down the nine convictions which ranged from six months to a year, Judge Flann Brennan said these were 'a catalogue of offences'. He said he should serve 12 months 'not a day less' and described the Rathmullen attack as 'particularly horrifying'.

Referring to the Dunleer incidents, the judge said: ' These are appalling offences which include assaults on guards.'

Carney's solicitor, Paul Moore said that his client has a drink problem. Judge Brennan pointed out that many people drink and appear in court on public order offences. 'But what your client has done falls into a totally different category,' he added.

He was really a lovely fella. Completely harmless. Just had a bit of a problem with drink, few pints and he would beat you for the euro from the trolley but we've all made mistakes. /s

seventeen sheep

http://www.evoke.ie/news/man-found-dead-in-co-louth-eoin-carney-dies-in-freak-accident/

I see he was trying to lift the patio door out to break into his "friend's" house in the middle of the night when this happened. Because he got locked out of his own.

An obvious course of action, of course. As opposed to just ... ringing the doorbell, or phoning his friend. Or phoning another friend or family member to see if they were home.

Nope, it would be totally normal to attempt to break in. (Something he has practice with.) But no, I'm sure it was totally innocent this time.

Gerri666

Gerri666 wrote: »

But I now see that the way in which a person is shown by the media is not alway true and it certainly isn't in this case.

Are the media making up all the reports of his many and various criminal convictions?

LizT

This is just turning into a discussion about an individual and won't end well. OP, if you have a problem with another thread, please report the posts and a mod will take a look.