Change of club query

RedB

Hi,

One of my kids (now aged 12) joined an Athletics Club for a year over 3 years ago when she was 8 as a juvenile member so she could train with them. She never competed with them but we now want her to join a different club and there's a query as to what (if any) the procedure is. I looked on the AI website but there's nothing posted there about changing clubs that I could see to deal with this.

The new club think we may need a letter from the old club but the old club thinks there's no issue as it was over two years ago There's been some talk about needing national approval :eek:

Does anyone know what the story is?

ECOLII

RedB wrote: »

Hi,

One of my kids (now aged 12) joined an Athletics Club for a year over 3 years ago when she was 8 as a juvenile member so she could train with them. She never competed with them but we now want her to join a different club and there's a query as to what (if any) the procedure is. I looked on the AI website but there's nothing posted there about changing clubs that I could see to deal with this.

The new club think we may need a letter from the old club but the old club thinks there's no issue as it was over two years ago There's been some talk about needing national approval :eek:

Does anyone know what the story is?

Your child is not in a registered AAI athlete for the past 2 years so should be no need, transfers only become an issue when an athlete is changing from one club to another having already been registered for the year to the best of my knowledge.

rom

http://46.22.133.116/downloads/other/transfer-form-2012.pdf should answer your questions.

RedB

rom wrote: »

http://46.22.133.116/downloads/other/transfer-form-2012.pdf should answer your questions.

Thanks rom. That's perfect.

BrokenMan

As long as she wasn't a member of any club for any of the last 3 years there won't be a problem. If she was registered in 2012 2013 or 2014 she will still be affiliated with her old club and will.need to go through the normal transfer procedures.

Letyourselfgo

BrokenMan wrote: »

As long as she wasn't a member of any club for any of the last 3 years there won't be a problem. If she was registered in 2012 2013 or 2014 she will still be affiliated with her old club and will.need to go through the normal transfer procedures.

And if the above is the case, you need to get cracking on a transfer now as a lot of signatures needed and it all needs to be done before march/april or the window closes again till September

Condo131

As other posters have already said, transfers can only be made in April or September. The COMPLETED form should be with the appropriate county registrar a week before the end of the preceding month, i.e. April or Aug. BOTH clubs ..From & To.. must sign the form (PDF on Athletics Ireland website).

The instructions on the form are pretty clear, but every year, quite a few forms are rejected due to errors and/or being submitted after the deadline(s).

NB: If you cannot contact, or find out who that person is, the clubs involved, contact your appropriate Co Board and, if that fails, AAI HQ.

RacoonQueen

OK, I'll ask.

Why does it have to be so complicated?? Have they reviewed this system at all in recent years? Always seems like such a headache...and then the club on either side can reject the transfer!

Dubgal72

RacoonQueen wrote: »

OK, I'll ask.

Why does it have to be so complicated?? Have they reviewed this system at all in recent years? Always seems like such a headache...and then the club on either side can reject the transfer!

+100 athletics should be encouraging, not discouraging....

rom

Most sports have this sort of thing. It is to prevent making super clubs I presume which is a good thing.

martyboy48

rom wrote: »

Most sports have this sort of thing. It is to prevent making super clubs I presume which is a good thing.

What is a "super club" in this instance? To many elites? To many members?
Has there been many instances where transfers have been refused and on what grounds??

I'm not doubting you, just asking as a genuine question.
Not a member of a club yet(deciding on Athenry AC and GCH), and as GCH have so many members, would they not be counted as a "super club" due to numbers??

rom

Too many elites. I don't know about refusals incidents.

RacoonQueen

The average athlete still has to go through this painful rigmarole. Even the fact it's all on paper - they don't need this ridiculous system for preventing super clubs, I've seen this prevent a normal athlete from getting a transfer. Your ordinary joe soap should be able to run for whichever club they like, this can prevent that from happening.

Condo131

RacoonQueen wrote: »

OK, I'll ask.

Why does it have to be so complicated?? Have they reviewed this system at all in recent years? Always seems like such a headache...and then the club on either side can reject the transfer!

My take on it, based on over 30 years in the sport, is that that there are several, imho, valid reasons. In a fair and impartial world, one ought to be able to transfer just by resigning from one club and joining a new one. Unfortunately, we don't live in a fair and impartial world.

The prime reason for the regulation of transfer is to facilitate fair competition. Until quite recently, some counties had transfer regulations akin to the current AAI ones, while others had very loose regulation. This led to key transfers being made just before key events. Not an everyday occurrence, nevertheless....

A major, major headache is in the "poaching" of talented youngsters. I have come across incidents whereby "training grants" are offered as inducements.

Edit: forgot to add: Refusal to sign a form can only be made for valid reasons. Not a problem for the incoming club - would you join a club that was refusing to sign!?

There was, and still is, a lot of unethical behaviour going on.

But really it isn't so complex - You have your new club sign first (they may not want you - we all know toxic people), then you get your current club to sign. Then forward it to your County Board Registrar. You don't have to consider the county section at all, unless you are transferring your county allegiance.

Edit: Having problems editing - seems to be cutting bits.

Refusals can only be made for valid reasons. The incoming club is unlikely to refuse and...would you join a club that was refusing to sign!?

NB. In my experience, the *VAST* majority of transfers, whether adult or child, *DON'T* work out. Within 2 years, most are gone from the sport. The other man's grass may not be as green as you think. On the other hand, the few that do work out seem to thrive.

RayCun

I think the main reason is to make competition administration easier, it's very clear which club each athlete is a member of. You don't have people coming up before a race in a different singlet saying, "no, no, I did the thing on the internet last night, now I'm with that club instead"

The main problem I have with the transfer system is with athletes who weren't really involved in their old clubs, who dropped out and are now dropping back in. A kid might want to join us, we ask if they're in a club they say no. Try to register them, and they used to be in a club, but haven't been there in 18 months. But we still can't register them until March or September. And until then they aren't insured!

RacoonQueen

Yeah we had an issue a few years ago with the national half where a runner who used to be in Waterford had not been officially transferred...she then couldn't compete for us. She'd not run for Waterford for over 2 years.

Condo131

RayCun wrote: »

A kid might want to join us, we ask if they're in a club they say no. Try to register them, and they used to be in a club, but haven't been there in 18 months. But we still can't register them until March or September. And until then they aren't insured!

Excellent point, and one that needs to be addressed. This doesn't just apply to kids. The AAI insurance policy allows people to "try out" for a few weeks, but beyond that, it can't be relied upon for cover. Some clubs, but, I reckon, not many, have separate insurance, so it isn't an issue for them.

I'll ask the Q with the AAI insurers, but I'd be pretty sure that these people can't be covered. The answer I want is: What advice they offer in the situation you outline. This must be pretty common, and should therefore, be addressed.

doctorchick

Condo131 wrote: »

The AAI insurance policy allows people to "try out" for a few weeks,

That is correct for the public liability insurance, however the personal accident insurance does not have a 'try before you buy' option

doctorchick

RayCun wrote: »

The main problem I have with the transfer system is with athletes who weren't really involved in their old clubs, who dropped out and are now dropping back in. A kid might want to join us, we ask if they're in a club they say no. Try to register them, and they used to be in a club, but haven't been there in 18 months. But we still can't register them until March or September. And until then they aren't insured!

I believe there is facility to petition AAI in this case, and have it considered outside of the window. However I do agree that on the whole it is not a satisfactory system with cases such as this. Once past September it is a long time until April, and also considering the AAI registration period is Jan - end Dec and most clubs work on the same basis for renewal of registrations. Perhaps an issue to be bought to Congress next time to bring transfers in line with AAI reg system and clubs local systems.

RayCun

Even if the transfer couldn't go through until the next transfer window, it would be good to be able to insure people immediately

doctorchick

I think that would be good, although I could see tough to administer. The annual AAI fee is split into two parts I believe, the registration part and the insurance part. Surely they could accept the insurance part pending the full transfer.

Letyourselfgo

Its a silly system that leaves you dependent on your outgoing club, which is not right as you may be looking to transfer due to a disagreement with your club and you're depending on them to register you or your kids for upcoming events, which they may or may not do.

My family are an example of this, a situation arose on the first training session back after the summer break, September (window closed).
The situation was one that could not be sorted, so my kids and I left. This gave a lot of power to the club and we will be 8 months in limbo Sep to April before we can compete for our new club as I feel we couldn't compete for our outgoing club based on what has happened.