Completing an ESTA application? Forename(s)/First name? Confused?

raspberrypie

Hi folks, this might make me seem a little simple minded but on the online ESTA form it says:

"First Name (as in passport)". In my passport, an Irish one, it states: Forename(s) As with many Irish people, I have two forenames, for arguments sake, John James. Now what is my first name, is it: John James or is it John? Do you see what I mean? Because a first name can actually be two names, for example someone might have the first name, John Paul. Or is the Paul, or the James, a second name?

It's something so simple I've never really thought about it, as I only use one name, the first part of what my passport describes as my "forename(s)", but technically is my "first name" (as the ESTA ask for) John or John James (not my real name of course) Thanks.

InTheTrees

I know. All Americans have a first name, a middle name and a last name. Endless confusion if you have two "middle" names. Or use one of the "middle" names as your first.

Think of First name as the name that people call you.

I think. I'm no expert though, just been living there for 20+ years.

Dave1442397

In the US it would be John. If they want a middle name, they will ask for it as either middle name or just middle initial.

When they say 'as on passport', they want the first name, so if your passport says John James, they want John. If you use James, and people call you James/Jim/Jimmy, they don't care, they still want John on the form so that it matches your passport.

raspberrypie

InTheTrees wrote: »

I know. All Americans have a first name, a middle name and a last name. Endless confusion if you have two "middle" names. Or use one of the "middle" names as your first.

Think of First name as the name that people call you.

I think. I'm no expert though, just been living there for 20+ years.

Thanks but it asks for your "First name (as in passport)", what's my first name? lol Is it John or John James, as the passport doesn't make reference to a "First name", it makes reference to "Forename(s)".

raspberrypie

Dave1442397 wrote: »

In the US it would be John. If they want a middle name, they will ask for it as either middle name or just middle initial.

When they say 'as on passport', they want the first name, so if your passport says John James, they want John. If you use James, and people call you James/Jim/Jimmy, they don't care, they still want John on the form so that it matches your passport.

I'll try that then I guess. Jeses, how something so simple could be so confusing. Thanks.

By the way, does anyone know, if it's approved, it is valid for 2 years from date of approval/issue, can I use it if for example I flew to Canada and Mexico and crossed the land order? Or is an ESTA only valid if you fly directly into the country I wonder? Thanks.

Football Friend

I dont think it's something that they will cause too much trouble either way but if your passport has 3 names on it as in John James middle name and surname then I'd be tempted to put John James as the first name. At least if push came to shove (which I don't imagine it would) at least your first name will tie to your birth cert etc. however if you put john as your first name on ESTA and they found out your official name was John James then they might ask more questions? Just my 2 cents.

raspberrypie

Football Friend wrote: »

I dont think it's something that they will cause too much trouble either way but if your passport has 3 names on it as in John James middle name and surname then I'd be tempted to put John James as the first name. At least if push came to shove (which I don't imagine it would) at least your first name will tie to your birth cert etc. however if you put john as your first name on ESTA and they found out your official name was John James then they might ask more questions? Just my 2 cents.

Thanks. Just checked, my birth cert just states: "Name: John James". Christ, I'm confused now. Is my first name John, or John James? I always assumed my first name was John and my second name was James, but could it be that my first name is actually John James and I don't have a middle name? : /

spurious

Your first name is John.

raspberrypie

spurious wrote: »

Your first name is John.

Hopefully, lol. Thanks.

ProudDUB

raspberrypie wrote: »

Thanks. Just checked, my birth cert just states: "Name: John James". Christ, I'm confused now. Is my first name John, or John James? I always assumed my first name was John and my second name was James, but could it be that my first name is actually John James and I don't have a middle name? : /

Your first name is John. Your middle name is James. If you had a double barreled first name, it would be the two names separated by a hypen (eg) Anne-Marie. If you don't have that, then your first name is John and your middle name/second name is James.

iusedtoknow

My wife technically has 2 first names AND two surnames due the spanish custom of fathers name then mothers name

Caused no end of hassle getting into the country - the simpleton at the border thought she was trying to pull a fast one

InTheTrees

I have 2 "middle" names. The first one is St.John (i know I know...) so thats too complicated (Is the initial S? Or J?) but the other one is the same letter as the first letter of my last name and rhymes so its a little funny...

So I usually leave the MI field blank.

Sheldons Brain

They are fundamentally interested in what it says on your passport, not what people call you etc.

On the bottom of your passport in the machine readable section

It will say something like

P<IRLMURPHY<<JOHN<JAMES<<<<<<<

this is John Murphy, middle name James.

coylemj

raspberrypie wrote: »

By the way, does anyone know, if it's approved, it is valid for 2 years from date of approval/issue, can I use it if for example I flew to Canada and Mexico and crossed the land order? Or is an ESTA only valid if you fly directly into the country I wonder? Thanks.

It's valid for two years or when your passport expires, whichever happens first. It covers multiple entry i.e. you don't have to reapply within the two years if you want to go back again. It only needs to be valid on the day you turn up at a point of entry and meet a border official, it does not need to be valid for your entire stay in the US.

You need ESTA approval if travelling to the US by sea or air from a Visa Waiver Program (VWP) country. If travelling to the US by land from Canada or Mexico, you do not need ESTA approval but as it only costs $14 and can be done online in a matter of minutes, I'd get it anyway.

I am a citizen of a VWP country and am visiting the U.S. from Canada or Mexico?

If you are coming by land, you do not need to have ESTA authorization, however, you should return your green I-94W card upon departure. If you are arriving by air or sea, you do need to apply for ESTA. You should return your green I-94W to the airline representative prior to boarding your flight.


https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/1094/kw/esta

raspberrypie

coylemj wrote: »

I am a citizen of a VWP country and am visiting the U.S. from Canada or Mexico?

If you are coming by land, you do not need to have ESTA authorization, however, you should return your green I-94W card upon departure. If you are arriving by air or sea, you do need to apply for ESTA. You should return your green I-94W to the airline representative prior to boarding your flight.

Hmmm, thanks, so that means you could fly to say Toronto or Mexico City jump on a train or coach for say Detroit or Texas and because you have an Irish passport you won't need a visa at the US border? They'll give you an I-94W card which you keep until your departure from the country either by air or overland back to Toronto or Mexico? I never knew that. Guess you are screwed though if your name pops up as not allowed in or whatever. Thanks.

ACProctor

I disagree with the answers here. In Feb 2016, I was held up at Dublin airport because something didn't check-out properly. It took them ages to find the problem, which was (they said) that I had not included my middle name, and that it therefore did not match my passport. I was held up for so long that my flight left without me, and I had to pay a huge amount for an update to try again the next day!

The upshot is that I still do not know the best thing to do for my next ESTA!!

coylemj

ACProctor wrote: »

It took them ages to find the problem, which was (they said) that I had not included my middle name, and that it therefore did not match my passport.

How on Earth did it take them 'ages' to figure out that you left out your middle name on your ESTA application? We are talking about a flight to the US?

ACProctor

I guess that they, too, thought that leaving the middle names out was the right thing to do. They were as confused as the people on this thread. It was almost a last resort on their part -- and too late for my flight -- but I still don't know whether they were correct, and what to do next time. That was a VERY expensive trip and I lost a day.

coylemj

ACProctor wrote: »

I guess that they, too, thought that leaving the middle names out was the right thing to do.

When it comes to renewing your passport, it is definitely the right thing to do. On my last renewal I mistakenly put both of my forenames on the form where you're asked how your name should appear on the passport. A nice man from the passport office rang me a few days later, he pointed out that my old (recently expired) passport had only one first name and was I sure I wanted both of them on the new passport?

While I was mulling over the question, he strongly advised me to only go with one name which advice I accepted. It means that when renting a car or applying for an ESTA or simply booking flights, there is no scope for confusion.