Getting glute to fire

jfh

Hi,
i've been advised that i need to get my glute to fire as apparently it's weak & the hamstring is doing all the work, hence HHT injury that refuses to go away.

i've spent a fortune on physios over the last 2 years no improvement so have let nature sort me out, (just doing nothing) stopped running a few months back but no improvement.

i take it i have to strengthen the muscle but i don't have time to join a gym, i do glute bridges & planks & exercise with a gym ball where i pull the ball in & raise knees.

anyone recommend how i get the glute to fire?

ECOLII

I would probably say that the exercising your are doing, while definitely beneficial are a bit beyond your current stage of rehab and probably needed to be scaled back

Start simply by doing butt clenches, progress to breaking down the movements of a superman i.e butt clench, leg extension, back extension and work through this until you get to the stage when you can do the movement fluidly with the muscle engagement pattern going glutes, hamstring, lower back.

After this is you can start to get into progressive strengthening exercises.

(This would be one possible reason behind it however without independent assessment it is a case of going on whats been diagnosed by medical professional previously)

jfh

Hi Ecoli,
first real injury of my "running career", damn frustrating.
i'm looking on enviously at those taking part in The Continuity training thread.
i haven't been doing the superman so will add to my repertoire.
but i think you're syaing that i might want to step back abit? i'm doing squats & lunges but the glute is not playing ball.
i have been doing the side lying leg lift, find that very difficult

will be back to you when i'm sorted

dna_leri

From a physiology point of view, is there really such a thing as "glutes not firing" or is it really just glutes too weak?
I can't visualise how a muscle "does not fire" , does it not receive a signal to fire or does it receive the signal but refuse to obey. Seems much more likely that the muscle is too weak to act.

RacoonQueen

Can you feel that the glutes are not doing the work? You should be able to 'feel' that it's the hamstrings doing it rather than the glutes.

Netwerk Errer

dna_leri wrote: »

From a physiology point of view, is there really such a thing as "glutes not firing" or is it really just glutes too weak?
I can't visualise how a muscle "does not fire" , does it not receive a signal to fire or does it receive the signal but refuse to obey. Seems much more likely that the muscle is too weak to act.

That's the way it works. When you are weak in one area, another muscle along the chain has to pick up the slack which is usually the Tfl when you have weak glutes. That's why people usually have tfl pain and IT band issues when they have weak glute medius. The tfl becomes overactive to compensate for the weakness in the glutes.

ECOLII

Not firing is often the description but in truth its more an incorrect muscle firing sequence.

In term of hip extension glute should be first to fire before hamstring or contralateral (opposite side) QL's if the secondary muscles are firing first effectively this creates a greater load bearing effect on these are they are acting for multiple functions. It is for this reason why it is important to restore normal neural pathway stimulation to these areas before strengthening otherwise the strengthening exercises are just going to develop the already active muscles without correcting the problem

As NW mentioned through abduction there is a similar firing sequence through Glute Med, Glute Min and TFL which is often a big issue with runners especially relative newcomers to the sport who get many IT band issues and also issues regarding Posterior Tibial issues and excessive overpronation as a result simply because they fatigue fibres in Glute Med to the point where it is no longer able to stabilize the hip through gait cycle sufficiently. If you actual break down the movement of running or walking you will see that the first movement is in fact the hip being hiked breaking foot contact with the ground even before hip flexion

dna_leri

Netwerk Errer wrote: »

That's the way it works. When you are weak in one area, another muscle along the chain has to pick up the slack which is usually the Tfl when you have weak glutes. That's why people usually have tfl pain and IT band issues when they have weak glute medius. The tfl becomes overactive to compensate for the weakness in the glutes.

I understand that.

What I don't understand is that IF "glutes are not firing" how will they suddenly "start firing".

dna_leri

ECOLII wrote: »

Not firing is often the description but in truth its more an incorrect muscle firing sequence.

In term of hip extension glute should be first to fire before hamstring or contralateral (opposite side) QL's if the secondary muscles are firing first effectively this creates a greater load bearing effect on these are they are acting for multiple functions. It is for this reason why it is important to restore normal neural pathway stimulation to these areas before strengthening otherwise the strengthening exercises are just going to develop the already active muscles without correcting the problem

And how could the OP do that ?

ECOLII

dna_leri wrote: »

And how could the OP do that ?

There are a few ways. Manual therapies have there place here as many neuroreceptors are stimulated through pressure and vibrations so up tempo manually therapy techniques can be used to stimulate nerve endings. Probably one of the most televised manual techniques is tapotement (what is seen as someone repeatedly judo chopping someone) is actually great for this type of work.

In terms of the OP doing themselves I mentioned previously breaking down the movement i.e butt clench and the progress to supermans but isometrically contracting muscles in each stage of movement - Butt clench (glutes) leg extension (hamstring) back extension (QLs). By isometrically contracting the muscles you are stimulating the muscles via the neuromuscular junction (where motor neurons stimulate the muscle fibres)

jfh

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Can you feel that the glutes are not doing the work? You should be able to 'feel' that it's the hamstrings doing it rather than the glutes.

TBH no, i don't feel anything different, the problem seems to have started since i gave up my office job(where i was sitting most of the day) for farming.
i could understand that sitting all day would make glutes weak but i'm on my feet all day.

Tombo2001

jfh wrote: »

Hi,
i've been advised that i need to get my glute to fire as apparently it's weak & the hamstring is doing all the work, hence HHT injury that refuses to go away.

i've spent a fortune on physios over the last 2 years no improvement so have let nature sort me out, (just doing nothing) stopped running a few months back but no improvement.

i take it i have to strengthen the muscle but i don't have time to join a gym, i do glute bridges & planks & exercise with a gym ball where i pull the ball in & raise knees.

anyone recommend how i get the glute to fire?

Its the most dis-spiriting thing with physios....

if you were sick and went to a doctor, and they gave you medicine and you didn't get better, you'd be going back to them saying WTF......

but with physios......it just doesn't seem to work that way. You go to see them, they bang on about core stability and glutes firing and getting you stand on one foot and then the other.....and then you give them €50 or even worse €60 and nothing has happened. Even worse, they give you a batch of exercises that you spend half an hour a day doing and nothing happens.

ECOLII

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Its the most dis-spiriting thing with physios....

if you were sick and went to a doctor, and they gave you medicine and you didn't get better, you'd be going back to them saying WTF......

but with physios......it just doesn't seem to work that way. You go to see them, they bang on about core stability and glutes firing and getting you stand on one foot and then the other.....and then you give them €50 or even worse €60 and nothing has happened. Even worse, they give you a batch of exercises that you spend half an hour a day doing and nothing happens.

If you were in a hospital there are often times where medication is tweaked altered, doses changed or a different medication is used when one isn't producing the right results.

Medical professionals are not infallible (as much as they would like to have you believe) however there are also other things which can influence recovery - lifestyle, sleep patterns, nutrition, hydration all play an affect and unless these area's are taken as seriously as the rehabilitation exercises will hinder speed of recovery.

Not trying to get defensive about the profession here but simply all factors must be considered

zzfh

Do you have posterior or anterior pelvic tilt? what is your quad flexibility like compared to your hamstring flexibility?

fits

I went to physio last year with similar issue. (ongoing for years) He told me to stop everything and just do this one exercise. Lie on floor on your belly. Consciously Engage core muscles. Consciosly Engage glutes and lift leg off floor a few inches. Alternate sides. The point is to train deep core muscles and get glutes firing before hamstrings

It really helped me but i have relapsed slightly now. Must start at it again. Office job and bad posture is really awful for the body.

jfh

zzfh wrote: »

Do you have posterior or anterior pelvic tilt? what is your quad flexibility like compared to your hamstring flexibility?

regards the posterior/anterior tilt, no idea, did a quick google there & i'd say anterior. i'd say that i dont have great posture.
i've been up to sports clinic in santry twice as well as going to numerous well respected physios down around the mid west & no one mentioned anything about the psoas, i was advised it was HHT & fluid around the hip flexor.
however i went to an old fashioned sports therapist who released the psoas and that felt good for a few days.

jfh

fits wrote: »

I went to physio last year with similar issue. (ongoing for years) He told me to stop everything and just do this one exercise. Lie on floor on your belly. Consciously Engage core muscles. Consciosly Engage glutes and lift leg off floor a few inches. Alternate sides. The point is to train deep core muscles and get glutes firing before hamstrings

It really helped me but i have relapsed slightly now. Must start at it again. Office job and bad posture is really awful for the body.

this would be much the same as ecoli's superman suggestion. i will do this everyday for the next month. Started yesterday.
encouraging to here it worked for you.

zzfh

jfh wrote: »

regards the posterior/anterior tilt, no idea, did a quick google there & i'd say anterior. i'd say that i dont have great posture.
i've been up to sports clinic in santry twice as well as going to numerous well respected physios down around the mid west & no one mentioned anything about the psoas, i was advised it was HHT & fluid around the hip flexor.
however i went to an old fashioned sports therapist who released the psoas and that felt good for a few days.

ah ok. anterior pelvic tilt is sometimes associated with weak/non firing glutes.
i am very quad dominant in everything and i find i never feel my glutes working.
if you are sitting all day in work,your hip flexors(the connection from your hip to your femur) gets short,which results in the quads becoming tight,and pulling the hips forward,which causes a whole host of problems,including weak glutes and hammies.

look into hip flexor stretches and also the post about the psoas seems right too.

also i found this a good tip,when you get the bar past your knees in a deadlift, squeeze your glutes like an anti rape mechanism,and drive the hips forward.

sibeen99

I was told I had the same problem about a year ago. Started off with very basic exercises as ecoli suggested, did those twice a day for about three months. Didn't do any running for 8 weeks, was advised to walk instead. Gradually started running again, progressed to exercises such as squats. Before I went to the physio I had severe IT band pain and sciatica. Since then I have been running pain free and with better form and overall posture is better. I still do the exercises on my non running days. It's not a quick fix but it does work!