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Hotel/credit card issue

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  • 14-01-2015 2:32am
    #1
    2 stroke
    Registered Users Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭


    Recently I booked a 2 hotel rooms, one for myself and partner for a thursday night, and another for a nephew who was staying wednesday and thursday night. I made the booking by phone using a valid credit card.
    On wednesday the hotel refused to allow my nephew to book in without paying. He phoned me and I phoned the hotel explaining that I thought that this was sorted and explaining that I could either settle the bill by card over the phone or pay the next day in person.
    The hotel refused saying that they could not take a card payment over the phone and that either my nephew would need to pay or that I could email an authorisation with pictures of both sides of my card, or an authorisation with card number, expiry date and 3 digit code, or my nephew couldn't stay the night. This I did reluctantly and under protest, to me its worse than signing a blank cheque, and that this info can sit on servers and other devices available for use by others. To make matters worse they claimed that they never got my first email, and I had to send the same info again. To date the amount has not been charged to my card. Also for some reason, the hotel insisted that the rooms had been booked online through their own website, and not over the phone.
    I have since heard of another person having a similar experience with a different hotel.
    I have just asked my card company to issue a new card, they had plenty of time to submit a charge. We stayed in the hotel and had an otherwise average experience. I'm quite willing to pay the bill but they will have to ask nicely.

    Can anyone shed some light on this, or had a similar experience?


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    #2
    berger89
    Closed Accounts Posts: 387 ✭✭berger89


    Have you stayed at the hotel already then? And haven't been charged?? :O sa-weet!!

    I've almost made the mistake of booking flights with my brothers credit card only to read the small print and see that when checking in, you need to show the card you used to book the flights. so maybe its similar for that hotel?


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    #3
    Ken.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,898 ✭✭✭✭Ken.


    They can still charge the old card for the stay cause it was valid at the time of booking. The credit card company then comes after you for the charge.


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    #4
    2 stroke
    Registered Users Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭2 stroke


    ken wrote: »
    They can still charge the old card for the stay cause it was valid at the time of booking. The credit card company then comes after you for the charge.

    They do have a valid authorisation but I doubt their competance.


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    #5
    2 stroke
    Registered Users Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭2 stroke


    berger89 wrote: »
    Have you stayed at the hotel already then? And haven't been charged?? :O sa-weet!!

    I've almost made the mistake of booking flights with my brothers credit card only to read the small print and see that when checking in you need to show the card you used to book the flights. so maybe its similar for that hotel?

    This isn't the issue as they did sugest that I lodge money to my nephews card and that he could pay. Good idea if my nephew had a card.


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    #6
    wonski
    Registered Users Posts: 13,687 ✭✭✭✭wonski


    2 stroke wrote: »
    Recently I booked a 2 hotel rooms, one for myself and partner for a thursday night, and another for a nephew who was staying wednesday and thursday night. I made the booking by phone using a valid credit card.
    On wednesday the hotel refused to allow my nephew to book in without paying. He phoned me and I phoned the hotel explaining that I thought that this was sorted and explaining that I could either settle the bill by card over the phone or pay the next day in person.
    The hotel refused saying that they could not take a card payment over the phone and that either my nephew would need to pay or that I could email an authorisation with pictures of both sides of my card, or an authorisation with card number, expiry date and 3 digit code, or my nephew couldn't stay the night. This I did reluctantly and under protest, to me its worse than signing a blank cheque, and that this info can sit on servers and other devices available for use by others. To make matters worse they claimed that they never got my first email, and I had to send the same info again. To date the amount has not been charged to my card. Also for some reason, the hotel insisted that the rooms had been booked online through their own website, and not over the phone.
    I have since heard of another person having a similar experience with a different hotel.
    I have just asked my card company to issue a new card, they had plenty of time to submit a charge. We stayed in the hotel and had an otherwise average experience. I'm quite willing to pay the bill but they will have to ask nicely.

    Can anyone shed some light on this, or had a similar experience?

    Was it booking.com or similiar?

    You normally pay for your room on arrival - your card is not charged unless cancelation charge is applied (no show) or you use said card to pay for your stay. You can pay with cash / credit / debit card and the card used to book the room was only used to secure the room - nothing else.

    That's how it works.


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    #7
    2 stroke
    Registered Users Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭2 stroke


    wonski wrote: »
    Was it booking.com or similiar?

    You normally pay for your room on arrival - your card is not charged unless cancelation charge is applied (no show) or you use said card to pay for your stay. You can pay with cash / credit / debit card and the card used to book the room was only used to secure the room - nothing else.

    That's how it works.

    As I said above, the rooms were booked directly by phone.
    Once the room has been guaranteed, I usually settle the bill on the last night, so I can make a quick getaway next morning. Only one other time in the last 3 years was I asked for payment when checking in.
    My main issue is that they refused to take a payment over the phone, and insisted that I email sensitive information.


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    #8
    berger89
    Closed Accounts Posts: 387 ✭✭berger89


    2 stroke wrote: »
    As I said above, the rooms were booked directly by phone.
    Once the room has been guaranteed, I usually settle the bill on the last night, so I can make a quick getaway next morning, only once in the last 3 years was I asked for payment when checking in.
    My main issue is that they refused to take a payment over the phone, and insisted that I email sensitive information.

    think thats in case its a stolen card/being used fraudulently? i work in retail and we aren't allowed to take payments over the phone either..or say the customer had the card number but not the pin (so they had to sign for it), we weren't allowed to do those transactions in case card was stolen


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    #9
    2 stroke
    Registered Users Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭2 stroke


    berger89 wrote: »
    think thats in case its a stolen card/being used fraudulently? i work in retail and we aren't allowed to take payments over the phone either..or say the customer had the card number but not the pin (so they had to sign for it), we weren't allowed to do those transactions in case card was stolen

    So they force customers to disclose their card details over an unsecure network or leave my guest on the streets of Dublin for the night? If I was the fraudulent type, I could just as easily defraud them by email as on the phone.


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    #10
    berger89
    Closed Accounts Posts: 387 ✭✭berger89


    2 stroke wrote: »
    So they force customers to disclose their card details over an unsecure network or leave my guest on the streets of Dublin for the night? If I was the fraudulent type, I could just as easily defraud them by email as on the phone.

    I'm only suggesting, I don;t know. Did you ask the hotel itself why it did this? Maybe it's just their policy. Every hotel is different.


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    #11
    2 stroke
    Registered Users Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭2 stroke


    berger89 wrote: »
    I'm only suggesting, I don;t know. Did you ask the hotel itself why it did this? Maybe it's just their policy. Every hotel is different.
    Their answer was that no hotel in their right mind would leave it untill day 2 to settle the account. My point is that no one should have to email their full credit card details over an unsecure network.
    I guess that I could have put money on a prepaid debit card, but it is just after xmas and ready cash is scarce.
    Also i was at work at the time, and I don't work at a computer. I lost 2 hours work dealing with this.


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    #12
    2 stroke
    Registered Users Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭2 stroke


    Also if they had waited untill I was there the next day, they would have their money by now. The card I used in their restuarant has been charged promptly, whereas they seem to have forgotton to charge the accomodation. I wonder could a staff member be sitting on my details to use elsewhere.


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    #13
    delahuntv
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,532 ✭✭✭delahuntv


    Here's the scam - person rings hotel / retail store / restaurant and books for / buys goods. Gives credit card on phone.

    Card goes through, goods picked up / services taken by someone else who you ahve sent.

    A week later,letter arrives from bank saying that card was a stolen card and the entire amount is being taken out of the business account.

    Hotel/restaurant/shop loses the money and can do absolutely nothing. Any transaction not verified by a pin number is taken with 100% responsibilty of the establishment.

    Sorry, but this scam is/was so prevalent, no-one will take a chance unless they know you or the booking as been made though a secure online gateway. Even organisatuons such as ISME, REI and Hotels Federation have highlighted the scam and warn their embers to be vigilant.

    Whilst you were genuine - many of this type of transactions are scams.


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    #14
    delahuntv
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,532 ✭✭✭delahuntv


    2 stroke wrote: »
    Also if they had waited untill I was there the next day, they would have their money by now. The card I used in their restuarant has been charged promptly, whereas they seem to have forgotton to charge the accomodation. I wonder could a staff member be sitting on my details to use elsewhere.

    what guaratee did they have that you woudl arrive.

    What guarantee did they have that it was your card?

    Without pin number, sending an image of your card is not insecure.

    As for "could a staff member be holding your details" - jaysus you really think the worst! Answer is NO - do you REALLY think a staff memebr will risk fraud charges.losss of job, etc for €100 and also having to find a place that will do it and then also hoping you wontl notice?


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    #15
    2 stroke
    Registered Users Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭2 stroke


    delahuntv wrote: »
    what guaratee did they have that you woudl arrive.

    What guarantee did they have that it was your card?

    Without pin number, sending an image of your card is not insecure.

    What chance that they've lost a repeat customer?

    They insisted on a pic of both sides of my card, unsecure in my eyes, credit card company could say I was careless with my card and not cover my loss if defrauded. I don't allow my card out of my sight after the last experience.
    delahuntv wrote: »
    As for "could a staff member be holding your details" - jaysus you really think the worst! Answer is NO - do you REALLY think a staff memebr will risk fraud charges.losss of job, etc for €100 and also having to find a place that will do it and then also hoping you wontl notice?
    It's happened to me before in a hotel restuarant.


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    #16
    Sam Mac
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,227 ✭✭✭Sam Mac


    You do not need a PIN number to buy something online.

    Of course sending pictures of your full card number via email is unsecure!


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    #17
    bigbudda
    Registered Users Posts: 132 ✭✭bigbudda


    I work front desk in a hotel with this same policy, for any one looking to pay for their or another party's room, wine or meal for a guest, anything, we need the authorisation form plus front and back photocopy of their card.

    This way, we know its their card, in their possession and when we do put the transaction through there will be no disputes as there is a paper/email trail.

    In the many years I've worked reception I've never seen nor heard a member of staff risking their job like you suggest. It is easily traceable ( as guests remember the recent times they gave their card number out) and with verified by visa online and the majority of places having the policies like above, its a silly risk.

    We also do not allow any guests check in without payment. Just giving a credit/debit card number over the phone is not enough, sure the card could be maxed out!

    Hope this helps explain a bit from the hotel point of view


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    #18
    delahuntv
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,532 ✭✭✭delahuntv


    2 stroke wrote: »
    What chance that they've lost a repeat customer?

    They insisted on a pic of both sides of my card, unsecure in my eyes, credit card company could say I was careless with my card and not cover my loss if defrauded. I don't allow my card out of my sight after the last experience.
    .
    So you think a pic of both sides is insecure yet you have no issue giving the same details over the phone??? Eh?


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    #19
    delahuntv
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,532 ✭✭✭delahuntv


    Sam Mac wrote: »
    You do not need a PIN number to buy something online.

    Of course sending pictures of your full card number via email is unsecure!

    Where's the security issue of a pic? The pin number is not given. You give shops and restaurants your card every day. They keep a copy that has card number and expiry date. They can read the cvv number. Doh.

    as for online - most online stores use secure gateways attached to credit card systems in real time and can confirm various details to confirm you are the card holder.


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    #20
    2 stroke
    Registered Users Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭2 stroke


    delahuntv wrote: »
    So you think a pic of both sides is insecure yet you have no issue giving the same details over the phone??? Eh?

    When you send an email a copy sits on the servers for a rediculous period of time. Also a copy can sit on the sending and recieving computers/tablets/phones. An email to my workplace is recieved on 7 diferent devices.
    If details are sent by phone there are no valid reason for entering on a computer.


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