Immigration

maria23

I am writing as we have been experiencing deep struggle to obtain some kind of documentation in Ireland.
I am a Russian citizen who resides in Ireland with Stamp 4.

My partner,who is an Iranian national,had claimed asylum in 2009 and has been rejected by the department of Justice several times. He's got his negative answer after a year of being here,then proceeded to the Court of Appeal and has been rejected again.
Since that day his social welfare has been cancelled and he was waiting for three years to see what would happen. We met in 2010 and had a child in Ireland in 2013. On the September 2014 , he has been issued an interview. He had attended it and people in the Department of Justice have promised to respond within 6 weeks.
We have received the letter only today,which contains another rejection. Again. We are lost.

He is a decent citizen who has been in Ireland for the past 5 years,has established family life and has no criminal conviction or whatsoever. I find this so unfair.
We are a young family and all we want is to have decent future for us. How can they just reject us and leave us abandoned. what have we done? All taxes are being payed.We are settles into Irish society and little child deserves a chance for happy future.What are we supposed to do?
It says in the letter that they will contact him within the next 15 days,to say what will happen next.What if it will be deportation?I feel very scared...
Where can I write?
What can I do?

I would be so grateful if anyone could assist on this topic.
Thanking you in advance.

MarkAnthony

OP I feel for you and this is going to sound harsh but you may have simply run out of options. There is no requirement for the Irish State to accept Iranian or Russian Nationals.

I'd speak to an experienced immigration solicitor. They might be able to give you some pointers.

The very best of luck with it.

Mr. Incognito

How did he support himself in Ireland from 2009 to now with no welfare and no legal means to work?

Dandelion6

I agree you need to contact an immigration solicitor. If the letter he received was a "three options" letter, they will not contact him within 15 days, he needs to contact them within 15 days making representations as to why he should be allowed to stay. The fact that he is in a long-term relationship with a stamp 4 holder and has a child born in Ireland will stand in his favour.

Also you don't say how long you have had your stamp 4 but if it was for at least three years before your child was born s/he may be entitled to Irish citizenship, which would strengthen your partner's case even further. Please contact an immigration solicitor ASAP.

Dr.Teeth

MarkAnthony wrote: »

There is no requirement for the Irish State to accept Iranian or Russian Nationals.

She has a right as a Russian to be here, she has a Stamp 4,
"Stamp 4 refers to the stamp number, or immigration status, given to an individual with permission to reside in Ireland"

cerastes

Dandelion6 wrote: »

I agree you need to contact an immigration solicitor. If the letter he received was a "three options" letter, they will not contact him within 15 days, he needs to contact them within 15 days making representations as to why he should be allowed to stay. The fact that he is in a long-term relationship with a stamp 4 holder and has a child born in Ireland will stand in his favour.

Also you don't say how long you have had your stamp 4 but if it was for at least three years before your child was born s/he may be entitled to Irish citizenship, which would strengthen your partner's case even further. Please contact an immigration solicitor ASAP.

How can someone not earning or receiving any social welfare afford a solicitor? I could not afford one now if I needed it?

Dr.Teeth wrote: »

She has a right as a Russian to be here, she has a Stamp 4,
"Stamp 4 refers to the stamp number, or immigration status, given to an individual with permission to reside in Ireland"

Why not just fling the gates open and have less policy than we have now? the person was rejected numerous times, this makes a joke of a system, whatever that is.
I am sympathetic and can understand someone may want a better life for them and their children, not be a bad person and pay tax (although I dont really understand how thats allowable) but any relative I have that went to Canada, US, NZ or Aus all had to go through a seemingly arduous and robust process. The thing is, this country doesnt have the means or jobs for people legitimately here.
I dont really see the advantage of encouraging more people here, any I have spoken to have all said they came here for economic reasons, many I know here already are astonished this continues and that we dont have a stricter and more rapid system to reject and repatriate people.

Dr.Teeth

cerastes wrote: »

How can someone not earning or receiving any social welfare afford a solicitor? I could not afford one now if I needed it?



Why not just fling the gates open and have less policy than we have now? the person was rejected numerous times, this makes a joke of a system, whatever that is.
I am sympathetic and can understand someone may want a better life for them and their children, not be a bad person and pay tax (although I dont really understand how thats allowable) but any relative I have that went to Canada, US, NZ or Aus all had to go through a seemingly arduous and robust process. The thing is, this country doesnt have the means or jobs for people legitimately here.
I dont really see the advantage of encouraging more people here, any I have spoken to have all said they came here for economic reasons, many I know here already are astonished this continues and that we dont have a stricter and more rapid system to reject and repatriate people.

I know...we need more Nigerian Prince's, those guys are loaded. Always trying to give money to me ;-)

maria23

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

How did he support himself in Ireland from 2009 to now with no welfare and no legal means to work?

I think you can well be able to guess,how he tries to support our little family for the past number of years,even taking into consideration the fact that he is not allowed to work officially. I have no problem to work or reside in Ireland.The problem is his situation. We have 15 days to appeal the decision and then wait for another "final" decision. After that,if we would be rejected again,he might be deported and what then??

maria23

I really appreciate your suggestion as to get a proper immigration solicitor. That what I am trying to do and in the meantime I have found organisation which is called MRCI (Migrant Right Center Ireland) and they should be able to assist us,provide information or refer to a good solicitor. Lets see.

cerastes

Dr.Teeth wrote: »

I know...we need more Nigerian Prince's, those guys are loaded. Always trying to give money to me ;-)

Im sure thats great for you, let us know how that works out for you, but how is it really relevant to this situation???
This country has an obligation to admit people from a certain region, others may be admitted, but that is still no reason why when a person has been denied any right to say to keep appealing??? whats the point of that to this country.
There are enough people here from where is authorised to take any available positions that may become available, we cant even support those remaining that cant support themselves? and what, just continue to accept immigration? for what end, who will support these people? how does that affect competition for property or jobs beneficially for those here already? At what point do we not have a more rigid process?
Not good enough to say oh the Irish went here there and everywhere, most of my relatives have emigrated using legitimate means but they had to follow robust entry systems, if they were denied they have been sent home or assuming they overstayed had been deported, I dont understand this appeal, reappeal, re-re-appeal, Ireland doesnt have the ability to sustain people to have a better life, otherwise we can just start by having people vacate everywhere that isnt nice and come here?? if that doesnt seem fair, then what about the people in similar scenarios to these people that get left behind?
Its unpalatable and you cant say a thing about it for fear of being labelled something by the social democrats or whoever decides to hold the mantle to make them seem great.
But its something that needs to be said.
Processing times should be faster, and people should either be accepted or declined and dealt with, that the processing times arent faster isnt the fault of people living here.
Those declined shouldnt really be having children, I didnt have a child for years as my lifestyle and means didnt suit it.

TeaBagMania

Well said Cerastes, IMO Ireland needs to dump the EU and close its boarders before things get worse

Mr. Incognito

maria23 wrote: »

I think you can well be able to guess,how he tries to support our little family for the past number of years,even taking into consideration the fact that he is not allowed to work officially. I have no problem to work or reside in Ireland.The problem is his situation. We have 15 days to appeal the decision and then wait for another "final" decision. After that,if we would be rejected again,he might be deported and what then??

Look, not being harsh but he has his own country where he can work legally and support his family.

If he is working illegally he is paying no tax and is committing a crime.

I want to is not a legitimate reason to live here beyond a holiday.

Maybe he should consider returning home.

cerastes

TeaBagMania wrote: »

Well said Cerastes, IMO Ireland needs to dump the EU and close its boarders before things get worse

I wouldn't go that far,just at the moment I don't think we should be doing this,even the opportunity for EU citizens to take jobs which require less or no qualifications seems foolhardy when there are many living here that could and would gladly fill those roles reducing the burden on the state,the state and those supporting it want people off benefits but nowhere do them to work,at the same time support inviting workers here that can avail of further supports further burdening the state that in itself can never even be repaid in tax alone, It benefits some.By all means fill some or certain skills where they cant be filled but every job?puts pressure on housing,school places,and a lot more.

MarkAnthony

There's a fantastic bit on Charlie Brooker about if you're loosing your job to Mexican that's just crawled over the border covered in dirt that speaks no English you probably deserved to lose the fecking thing.

Immigration, when managed properly only increases the GDP and overall wealth of a country. Ireland is practically fecking empty there is no issues with people migrating in if they contribute.

I'm sorry but it needed to be pointed out that Ireland has a legitimate right to control immigration but some of the xenophobic tripe that has followed needed to be called out.

Dandelion6

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

If he is working illegally he is paying no tax

Not true. Actually quite a number of people who are undocumented in the State and working are paying taxes on their earnings. I see several of them a week.

Also, tax is not just PAYE tax, it includes things like VAT, excise taxes, the plastic bag levy etc which nearly everyone pays.

Mr. Incognito

Dandelion6 wrote: »

Not true. Actually quite a number of people who are undocumented in the State and working are paying taxes on their earnings. I see several of them a week.

Also, tax is not just PAYE tax, it includes things like VAT, excise taxes, the plastic bag levy etc which nearly everyone pays.

Yes that 15/30? cent per bag and is a legitimate people to overturn persons living here illegally and allowing them to stay.

How foolish of us as a nation.

maria23

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Look, not being harsh but he has his own country where he can work legally and support his family.

If he is working illegally he is paying no tax and is committing a crime.

I want to is not a legitimate reason to live here beyond a holiday.

Maybe he should consider returning home.

Just to make things clear.all taxes are being payed from his side as well as from my side. We rent accommodation,we pay our bills and don't sit on social,as many do. He hasn't been working until the time when we had a child,but afterwards we had no choice. He has prepared for every bitter question they will ask him in the court.He isn't just working during nights in some kebab place for cash.Instead he got decent job,signed his contract and works hard for the family. I think its a little unfair of what you say,we didn't break any law,we don't bring any harm to the society,in fact we have made great connections and friendships with Irish people.
In addition I can say that I love my country just the way my partner loves his place of origin,but unfortunately our government are incredible fools,who destroyed these big countries. The whole social welfare system is a total joke! minimum wages will seem unreal for you. Property prices keep rising as well as other prices for goods. And for Iran add the pressure of Islam. That's why we are here. That's why I am growing my child here. Is there something wrong with it?

And please,dear people. I am being open and honest about my present situation.I seek advice,suggestion and help. I don't want to hear critics,or to hear people saying go home or don't get pregnant. I mean,seriously.
Other than that,thank you so much for understanding and suggestions.

ThatFatGal

Fair play to you for trying to help him - I do feel for you as I've known a couple people whose partners have been deported. Mind you, they were not asylum seekers but just overstayers.

In the meantime, I dont know how he was able to pay tax and work legally as an asylum seeker as refugees are not allowed to work until their status is confirmed?

I think your best bet is to seek a solicitor's help but also prepare for the worst. My experience with the immigration was fair and just -if they have declined him so many times, there must've been a good reason for it, not that I want to hurt your feelings.

One of my Chinese friends was heavily pregnant with her baby a few years ago and her bf was escorted by the guards to the mountjoy prison for overstaying. He got deported after 2 weeks and never saw his child until she went back to China with the child afterwards. (She is now an Irish citizen and lives here alone with the child.)

cerastes

MarkAnthony wrote: »

There's a fantastic bit on Charlie Brooker about if you're loosing your job to Mexican that's just crawled over the border covered in dirt that speaks no English you probably deserved to lose the fecking thing.

Immigration, when managed properly only increases the GDP and overall wealth of a country. Ireland is practically fecking empty there is no issues with people migrating in if they contribute.

I'm sorry but it needed to be pointed out that Ireland has a legitimate right to control immigration but some of the xenophobic tripe that has followed needed to be called out.

Thats great you know charlie brooker, he can be very funny, so just because he says it, it must be true and because you're quoting him, you must be right, so its now an established fact? People dont deserve to lose their jobs and in the scenario you describe which isn't really relevant, but an extreme example.

Immigration is not managed properly here from either an immigrants perspective or any other, they have to wait too long to be processed for certain types of situation and then we have NGO, (thats non elected organisations) lobbying and pushing their agenda, situation and likely personal opinions, determining what policy on the matter should be, not individuals, the electorate.

Ireland isnt empty, it doesnt need to be filled wall to wall, by that rationale Australia is huge, everyone could all go there, we could fit billions in it, regardless of the type of environment that exists or what infrastructure exists or the environment itself. Aside from the fact we cant manage our current infrastructure to the population here already, there is no requirement to just fill space because people would fit. Where will we put people? tent cities? there is already a housing crisis, no doubt more people could physically fit but that doesnt mean it should be done, not at least until we have a suitable infrastructure.
Aside from the fact, the land is accounted for, people own farming land, but also the other big things is, how will these people sustain themselves, all this new influx to fill the wide open spaces? Is there some new raft of jobs?
Every effort should be made to get people that have costs here off state support and into jobs, by all means we should be cherrypicking specific roles with the view to training our own needs and requirements for those roles on the future and not relying on the cheaper shortcut of not doing it ourselves and draining other locations of their knowledge resources. Thats always a cheap and shortsighted means to dealing with a states own needs. But filling every spare job that was available usually in this country, where people that have as their natural place of birth have existing costs, reside and should work. People need jobs and they are not or less likely to be able to transplant themselves elsewhere to do the same. These people should be encouraged and persuaded and pushed to take any available jobs. Instead I have seen people that have just moved here or are moving here (via their partners) from countries we have no association or obligation to (Not EU) and they have told me they are applying for and getting RA, FIS, when there is a crisis of jobs and accomodation here already. I sympathise we the OP, but at what point do we fix our own problems, at what point can we manage to keep helping?

what Xenophobic comment has been mentioned? Ive mentioned ones of practical, sensible, environmental and social considerations. Ive said we as a country need to get people to come here where we need to, but we cant have swathes of people already here unemployed because every other employment prospect is written off. These were jobs filled by younger people or students or those who needed them where they have not had an opportunity or had the time to build experience.
Saying my comments have been Xenophobic is tripe, thats the fear and unfounded labeling people have to put up with, being accused of being Xenophobic, or worse.
Some of the most xenophobic people I know are not originally Irish and they are the most critical of our system, Poles asking me why we allow people in from non EU states such as Ukranians, Moldovans and Russians, equally who have told me that such a fair system would not apply for an Irish person applying for a job in Poland, where a a Pole would be advanced over any non national. Filipinos who have been stunned they see how loose our entry point of immigration is compared to their home or anywhere they have been other than the UK.

By all means invite people we need here, but we need to fix our own problems or we will create societal problems as exist in places like the UK and France, ghettoised places with no prospect of employment, marginalisation and to what end? the liberal agenda??

Those social democrats and their liberal agenda would be better served supporting human rights and advances in countries they claim to seek to help, as we cant simply transport everyone here, what of the millions that are left behind?? how is that right that some may have an opportunity to a better life but others (millions others) are left to live under corrupt or dangerous govts??

Why are people not allowed question immigration?without being labelled a xenophobe, a racist? there are clearly problems with it.

MarkAnthony

I'm sorry I started going through that but I'm not contending with the wall of text. Please paragraph it and I'll try and engage. A couple of points I did get to though:

-Ireland is very tough on asylum which needs to be distinguished from immigration.

-Immigration creates more wealth than it drains. It does disproportionately affect certain socioeconomic groups but frankly they are generally people that failed to take advantage of even a fraction of the opportunities available to them. (Hence the tongue in cheek Charlie Brooker reference.)

-The country never recovered to pre-famine population levels, housing crisis that everyone talks about is limited to innercity Dublin and is largely artificial.

-I said xenophobic not racist there is a difference; there's plenty of xenophobia in this thread.

foggy_lad

maria23 wrote: »

Just to make things clear.all taxes are being payed from his side as well as from my side. We rent accommodation,we pay our bills and don't sit on social,as many do. He hasn't been working until the time when we had a child,but afterwards we had no choice. He has prepared for every bitter question they will ask him in the court.He isn't just working during nights in some kebab place for cash.Instead he got decent job,signed his contract and works hard for the family. I think its a little unfair of what you say,we didn't break any law,we don't bring any harm to the society,in fact we have made great connections and friendships with Irish people.
In addition I can say that I love my country just the way my partner loves his place of origin,but unfortunately our government are incredible fools,who destroyed these big countries. The whole social welfare system is a total joke! minimum wages will seem unreal for you. Property prices keep rising as well as other prices for goods. And for Iran add the pressure of Islam. That's why we are here. That's why I am growing my child here. Is there something wrong with it?

And please,dear people. I am being open and honest about my present situation.I seek advice,suggestion and help. I don't want to hear critics,or to hear people saying go home or don't get pregnant. I mean,seriously.
Other than that,thank you so much for understanding and suggestions.

Does your partner have permission or the legal right to work in Ireland? I'm guessing that after three rejections the answer to that question is NO. If he is working he is breaking the law and taxes are not being paid for his income as he legally does not exist in the workforce.

You say he did not work until ye had a child so how did he live up to that point? was he in a centre where he was getting direct provision payments? If yes then he was receiving support from this country while awaiting the decision on his application and appeals. When he was rejected did he then move "underground" and start to work illegally knowing that it would be harder for the authorities to track him down to deport him?

Dandelion6

foggy_lad wrote: »

If he is working he is breaking the law and taxes are not being paid for his income as he legally does not exist in the workforce.

Can people please stop repeating this falsehood? Taxes can be and frequently are paid on income earned by people without a right to work. I have lodged I don't know how many leave to remain applications by people who've worked without permission here for years and years and have always paid tax on their income. The tax system and the residency system are two separate things.

RobYourBuilder

we didn't break any law

Yes you did. Working without the legal right to work is against the law. There are 400k unemployed in this country that could take that job. If it were a highly skilled role or paying 30k upwards he could apply for a work permit.

Ireland is tough on asylum which needs to be distinguished from immigration.

That is because over 90% of claims are unfounded. We also have one of the lowest rates of deportation rates in the EU. Roughly 300 a year(not just asylum seekers, in total.)

Immigration creates more wealth than it drains. It does disproportionately affect certain socioeconomic groups but frankly they are generally people that failed to take advantage of even a fraction of the opportunities available to them. (Hence the tongue in cheek Charlie Brooker reference.)

You keep repeating this but a recent study conducted in the UK showed us that non EU immigration cost them £118 billion.

Nice swipe at the native working class, unfortunately, not everyone is cut out to be an immigration lawyer. Some people are better at more manual or menial jobs.

The country never recovered to pre-famine population levels, housing crisis that everyone talks about is limited to innercity Dublin and is largely artificial.

The best thing about Ireland is our low population density. I live in a society, not an economy. Your opinion may differ it's all subjective.

Sources: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/11209234/Immigration-from-outside-Europe-cost-120-billion.html

http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/PR07000171

MarkAnthony

RobYourBuilder wrote: »

That is because over 90% of claims are unfounded. We also have one of the lowest rates of deportation rates in the EU. Roughly 300 a year(not just asylum seekers, in total.)

That's because we find them unfounded against our proof requirements only underscoring our stance very tough stance on immigration.

RobYourBuilder wrote: »

You keep repeating this but a recent study conducted in the UK showed us that non EU immigration cost them £118 billion.

Nice swipe at the native working class, unfortunately, not everyone is cut out to be an immigration lawyer. Some people are better at more manual or menial jobs.

Actually I've said it twice at the most. The I suspect that study is talking about immigrants entering the UK to work illegally and claim benefits that's not what we're talking about here but I'll gladly stand corrected after having a read of the study, could you link it?

As for a swipe at the native working class. I was a retailer for the better part of 15 years. While genuine working class people were usually excellent there was a huge sense of entitlement and that people were too good for jobs, generally. Everything else being equal you're going to employ the best workers. If the best workers are non-nationals then the native workforce need to reassess their priorities.

RobYourBuilder wrote: »

The best thing about Ireland is our low population density. I live in a society, not an economy. Your opinion may differ it's all subjective.

That's fine but lets not lose the run of ourselves pretending that Ireland can't cope with immigration.

cerastes

MarkAnthony wrote: »

I'm sorry I started going through that but I'm not contending with the wall of text. Please paragraph it and I'll try and engage. A couple of points I did get to though:

-Ireland is very tough on asylum which needs to be distinguished from immigration.

-Immigration creates more wealth than it drains. It does disproportionately affect certain socioeconomic groups but frankly they are generally people that failed to take advantage of even a fraction of the opportunities available to them. (Hence the tongue in cheek Charlie Brooker reference.)

-The country never recovered to pre-famine population levels, housing crisis that everyone talks about is limited to innercity Dublin and is largely artificial.

-I said xenophobic not racist there is a difference; there's plenty of xenophobia in this thread.

It is already broken up, paragraphed, it is nothing like a wall of text, just because you cant take the time to read it and answer some of the serious and real considerations.

I was wondering if the famine population levels might be brought up, would you have us return to that level of things too that pre tenement living, if even that wasnt bad enough, you do realise the population halved because under the circumstances at the time it couldnt be sustained, not to mention quality of life, purpose or life expectancy. There is no requirement to have specific or high population levels, can you answer how this country would cope? with what another 2-2.5 million people? even if we started planning for that now it seems unlikely we would be able to cope. Im sure it would be possible, but in our current regime and circumstances, never.

Still it isnt a bad situation for businesses that want a cheap and ready supply of workers they can not give full rights to in the majority. Maybe we can all live in 4 to a room scenarios too, thats 4 families. It is already happening that some families are living like that, not necessarily for financial reasons but mostly, but also because there are no properties to take up and the existing stock isnt well designed and certainly not for that.

There are people on trolleys in A+E, no real jobs and a housing crisis. But you failed to answer plenty of other real considerations, what of those left behind in countries under brutal dictators or corrupt regimes?

Added to that you seem to have a disdain for Irish people and your experience doesnt mean that is accurate for everyone. In itself its bordering on racist, at least discriminatory. My experience has been people are much more similar than you suggest, there are lazy, good, bad in any group Ive come across.

Ireland cannot cope with immigration, not just because it is a one sided situation that is not open for criticism by those with a "liberal" agenda, but because we have a crisis of essential services, adding more pressure to that until we sort it out, which seems not to have a clear plan of action at all is only piling problems on a bad situation and hoping down the road it will be resolved, when it wont.

MarkAnthony

cerastes wrote: »

It is already broken up, paragraphed, it is nothing like a wall of text, just because you cant take the time to read it and answer some of the serious and real considerations.

It was a wall of text and rambled at points. I was happy to go back if it was properly paragraphed as I said. Leaving that aside.

cerastes wrote: »

I was wondering if the famine population levels might be brought up, would you have us return to that level of things too that pre tenement living, if even that wasnt bad enough, you do realise the population halved because under the circumstances at the time it couldnt be sustained, not to mention quality of life, purpose or life expectancy. There is no requirement to have specific or high population levels, can you answer how this country would cope? with what another 2-2.5 million people? even if we started planning for that now it seems unlikely we would be able to cope. Im sure it would be possible, but in our current regime and circumstances, never.

You seem to be suggesting that this would happen overnight, that's not how properly controlled immigration works. To suggest we'd regress to pre-famine times just because we have pre-famine population is a tad out there.

cerastes wrote: »

Still it isnt a bad situation for businesses that want a cheap and ready supply of workers they can not give full rights to in the majority. Maybe we can all live in 4 to a room scenarios too, thats 4 families. It is already happening that some families are living like that, not necessarily for financial reasons but mostly, but also because there are no properties to take up and the existing stock isnt well designed and certainly not for that.

I'm just not sure where you're going here. There is plenty of accommodation, some area in SCD are expensive but beyond that there are at least 5 empty houses in eyeshot of me right now looking out towards Smithfield.

As for workers rights where have I suggested that anyone would work with curtailed rights?

cerastes wrote: »

There are people on trolleys in A+E, no real jobs and a housing crisis. But you failed to answer plenty of other real considerations, what of those left behind in countries under brutal dictators or corrupt regimes?

What has poor government got to do with it? If anything a larger population and tax base would alleviate these problems not exacerbate them.

cerastes wrote: »

Added to that you seem to have a disdain for Irish people and your experience doesnt mean that is accurate for everyone. In itself its bordering on racist, at least discriminatory. My experience has been people are much more similar than you suggest, there are lazy, good, bad in any group Ive come across.

Simmer on the racism, it's not been brought up by anyone else.

The fact is that once you go beyond genuine working class Irish workers the sense of entitlement is massive. Ask anyone who worked in retail/food service/cleaning etc. during the boom.

cerastes wrote: »

Ireland cannot cope with immigration, not just because it is a one sided situation that is not open for criticism by those with a "liberal" agenda, but because we have a crisis of essential services, adding more pressure to that until we sort it out, which seems not to have a clear plan of action at all is only piling problems on a bad situation and hoping down the road it will be resolved, when it wont.

Our problems are due to awful government not because of immigration. We keep voting (or not voting) for the same morons over and over again. Nothing changes. Contributing migrants do exactly that contribute.

cerastes

MarkAnthony wrote: »

It was a wall of text and rambled at points. I was happy to go back if it was properly paragraphed as I said. Leaving that aside.



You seem to be suggesting that this would happen overnight, that's not how properly controlled immigration works. To suggest we'd regress to pre-famine times just because we have pre-famine population is a tad out there.



I'm just not sure where you're going here. There is plenty of accommodation, some area in SCD are expensive but beyond that there are at least 5 empty houses in eyeshot of me right now looking out towards Smithfield.

As for workers rights where have I suggested that anyone would work with curtailed rights?


What has poor government got to do with it? If anything a larger population and tax base would alleviate these problems not exacerbate them.



Simmer on the racism, it's not been brought up by anyone else.

The fact is that once you go beyond genuine working class Irish workers the sense of entitlement is massive. Ask anyone who worked in retail/food service/cleaning etc. during the boom.



Our problems are due to awful government not because of immigration. We keep voting (or not voting) for the same morons over and over again. Nothing changes. Contributing migrants do exactly that contribute.

We do not have controlled immigration, I'm not saying it is or isn't unfettered but no plan is in place, no longterrm plan now or ever and no suggestion it ever will.

5! houses you say, you mean apartments? wow, and there isnt already demand for that? we need a lot more than 5 houses per area already and we needed it long before now.

There is nothing to suggest Govt would improve with a larger population, if anything, things worsened during the boom.

Simmer on the racism? so you can throw around unfounded allegations?
I dont even think you realise what Im saying, I wasnt saying you were being racist towards Irish people, but as whole you suggest there are differences between Irish people and others, there aren't, very little, the differences are much less than the similarities, which suggests to me, this just suits your opinions, beliefs and agenda now, you seem to be the one with a racist bent however.

I agree with the last point, Im not saying its immigrants fault, but we need to fix our problems first and not marginalise sections of Irish society, there arent enough, jobs, homes or adequate finances to tend to the needs of those here without inviting more and create problems in the process, least not those we have no obligation to, unless they have very specific skills we need urgently, then outside the EU should be closed off for a start, if we cant get who we need from the 400 or so million in the EU then that is one hell of a problem or specific job description. Otherwise, how are we to get people back to work here if every miniscule opportunity at work is written off.

schemingbohemia

This thread should be closed, it's gone way off track and veered into after hours territory at times.

cerastes

schemingbohemia wrote: »

This thread should be closed, it's gone way off track and veered into after hours territory at times.

Thats right, dont discuss it and if it is, shut it down,
OP said they or their partner isnt from the EU and has been declined to stay here a number of times, has held a job without having legitimate status, and wants to find a way around it and there are groups out there funded to support that.

Annasopra

OP take your advice from MRCI not people who want you and your partner deported.

BuilderPlumber

maria23 wrote: »

Just to make things clear.all taxes are being payed from his side as well as from my side. We rent accommodation,we pay our bills and don't sit on social,as many do. He hasn't been working until the time when we had a child,but afterwards we had no choice. He has prepared for every bitter question they will ask him in the court.He isn't just working during nights in some kebab place for cash.Instead he got decent job,signed his contract and works hard for the family. I think its a little unfair of what you say,we didn't break any law,we don't bring any harm to the society,in fact we have made great connections and friendships with Irish people.
In addition I can say that I love my country just the way my partner loves his place of origin,but unfortunately our government are incredible fools,who destroyed these big countries. The whole social welfare system is a total joke! minimum wages will seem unreal for you. Property prices keep rising as well as other prices for goods. And for Iran add the pressure of VOODOOISM. That's why we are here. That's why I am growing my child here. Is there something wrong with it?

And please,dear people. I am being open and honest about my present situation.I seek advice,suggestion and help. I don't want to hear critics,or to hear people saying go home or don't get pregnant. I mean,seriously.
Other than that,thank you so much for understanding and suggestions.

The voodoo cult in Iran is 99% over. They voted in a moderate president and it was allowed in 2013 for fear of a total revolution. Father Khamenei is a weak priest and a weak king and has sold himself out to the Pasdaran. but the Pasdaran are not as strong as people think and fear Iran's intelligent people and their voodoo-fascist rubbish sold as 'Islam' no longer has a currency and no one believes it anymore. So, the people should push for more and more reform. So desperate are the fascist junta they even fear pictures of Iranian girls with their soccer players. The end of Iranian fascist is near and Fr Khamenei's weak rule will one day be replaced by strong, moderate and progressive government sooner than one thinks. And a moderate Iran will then impact on the even worse voodoo regime in Saudi Arabia who will have to listen to reform too. And an end to stone age voodoo fascism passed off as 'Islam' plus its terrorist offspring will end.

FreudianSlippers

schemingbohemia wrote: »

This thread should be closed, it's gone way off track and veered into after hours territory at times.

Please remember we have a report post button for this kind of thing.

Closed pending review.