Finishing lambs on meal

Green farmer

Any else out there still finishing lambs. I've mine in a shed and feeding them silage with some meal. I weighted them today and they seem to not have put on much weight over the last month or so. Their in good condition, but just not showing it on scales yet. I was reading a theory on another site, where a guy who finishes lambs reckons that when feeding meal, it doesn't make much difference whether they get a 1/2 a kilo or 1 kilo of meal for the first six weeks or so because it takes six weeks to build up internal body fat and organs, before lambs take off and then power ahead.
Maybe this is another reason to build up meal over time also instead of giving them loads at the start ?

Cran

Green farmer wrote: »

Any else out there still finishing lambs. I've mine in a shed and feeding them silage with some meal. I weighted them today and they seem to not have put on much weight over the last month or so. Their in good condition, but just not showing it on scales yet. I was reading a theory on another site, where a guy who finishes lambs reckons that when feeding meal, it doesn't make much difference whether they get a 1/2 a kilo or 1 kilo of meal for the first six weeks or so because it takes six weeks to build up internal body fat and organs, before lambs take off and then power ahead.
Maybe this is another reason to build up meal over time also instead of giving them loads at the start ?

Agree with the build up, also get more effect on lower amounts at the start. If I was you would ad lib them in the shed at this stage, theres a limit to what the will eat and best way I've found to finish late lambs and costing wise find it cheaper in long run.

Green farmer

Thanks Cran,

I've been looking at different things to finish lambs with, but unless your growing tillage crops yourself, there' s not too many options available other then meal. I'll Just have to bite the bullet and open the floodgates.costly though.

Cran

Green farmer wrote: »

Thanks Cran,

I've been looking at different things to finish lambs with, but unless your growing tillage crops yourself, there' s not too many options available other then meal. I'll Just have to bite the bullet and open the floodgates.costly though.

been doing it for years, at this stage nearly specialise in producing hoggets as I lamb late and carry about 500 into the winter. Used to think this was poor, but after joining STAP my % of lamb sales off grass alone is actually top end of our group.....
My costings are old now and based on 4.50 kilo I think (can check later) need to be buying meal at 310 or less to justify, at 5.20kg and considerably less for meal it has worked well so far.
Going to add tyfon to some reseed this year and see if can improve the number of lambs going without meal, even if it does work it would never be close to selling with lower costs.

rangler1

Cran wrote: »

been doing it for years, at this stage nearly specialise in producing hoggets as I lamb late and carry about 500 into the winter. Used to think this was poor, but after joining STAP my % of lamb sales off grass alone is actually top end of our group.....
My costings are old now and based on 4.50 kilo I think (can check later) need to be buying meal at 310 or less to justify, at 5.20kg and considerably less for meal it has worked well so far.
Going to add tyfon to some reseed this year and see if can improve the number of lambs going without meal, even if it does work it would never be close to selling with lower costs.

I always adlib the meal into them at the back end of the year, too heavily stocked and just enough indoor accommodation for my ewes so the lambs have to be got off the place, there's nothing as expensive as having to leave my sheep out on the land too late

ganmo

What are the pros/cons if bringing them into the shed?

rangler1

ganmo wrote: »

What are the pros/cons if bringing them into the shed?

If weather is good and dry, they probably do better outside, but if they're wet all the time, a lot of your meal goes to keeping them warm....definitely do better inside in weather such as we're having now

ganmo

It's a case of making a decision and sticking with it. Would ya be tempted to shear them goin into de shed?

rangler1

ganmo wrote: »

It's a case of making a decision and sticking with it. Would ya be tempted to shear them goin into de shed?

Factories some times don't like them shorn......never did it here, vendeens wouldn't be long wooled anyway

Green farmer

Cran wrote: »

My costings are old now and based on 4.50 kilo I think (can check later) need to be buying meal at 310 or less to justify, at 5.20kg and considerably less for meal it has worked well so far. Bought meal today at 296 a tonne for maize finisher. Bagged ,collected and paid up front. Don't think I'm really getting any great deal on meal. QUOTE



Any one know the conversion rates. I think it's 6 or 7 kg of meal to 1 kg of weight gain.? But not sure if it's live weight gain or carcass gain ?
Separately I heard somewhere that 7 kg of fodder beet in equivalent to 1 kg of ration. ? Anyone else hear this ?

Username John

Green farmer wrote: »

Cran wrote: »

My costings are old now and based on 4.50 kilo I think (can check later) need to be buying meal at 310 or less to justify, at 5.20kg and considerably less for meal it has worked well so far. Bought meal today at 296 a tonne for maize finisher. Bagged ,collected and paid up front. Don't think I'm really getting any great deal on meal. QUOTE



Any one know the conversion rates. I think it's 6 or 7 kg of meal to 1 kg of weight gain.? But not sure if it's live weight gain or carcass gain ?
Separately I heard somewhere that 7 kg of fodder beet in equivalent to 1 kg of ration. ? Anyone else hear this ?

I always worked with a conversion of 7 : 1
7 kg meal = 1 kg meat.
I would assume at store level, live weight gain would be equal enough to carcass gain? But open to correction here...

Now - on the beet to barley question... my numbers are... (they could be totally wrong) :cool:
From here

Fodder Beet
Dry Matter Yield: 13 – 20 t/ha
Fresh Yield: 65 – 115 t/ha
Dry Matter: 13 – 19 %
Crude Protein: 6 – 8 %
ME (MJ/Kg DM) 13.5

So 1 ton beet @ 15% DM = 150kg
150kg * 13.5 = 2025ME

Barley

barley grain has a high metabolisable energy value for ruminants (about 12.4 MJ/kg DM

2025 / 12.4 = 163kg

So my sums say
1 ton beet = 163kg barley
which is about 6 : 1

Green farmer

That's close enough to the 1 to 7 meal ratio.

So would buying fodder beet at €40 a tonne washed / delivered be the same as €40 x 7= €280, be no better then walking into the local meal merchants and buying 1 tonne of meal at €280 ? Except fodder beet requires more handling and chopping etc.

Username John

Green farmer wrote: »

That's close enough to the 1 to 7 meal ratio.

So would buying fodder beet at €40 a tonne washed / delivered be the same as €40 x 7= €280, be no better then walking into the local meal merchants and buying 1 tonne of meal at €280 ? Except fodder beet requires more handling and chopping etc.

Got 6 ton (altho the lad who brought said it's closer to 7 ton, I wouldn't know either way) at the weekend. 200euro

I got it for in lamb ewes outside. I think it'll hold em a bit better with grass than just barley or ration.

I am not sure about fattening lambs with fodder beet. I would prefer to go with a ton of barley / some cheap ration, along with the silage.
Now - I don't have anything to base this on, I have never fattened anything on beet, just my own opinion.

northdub14

I have the last of the lambs here in the shed to finish them, handier than dragging them out of the briars every day. There on adlib meal 16% ration, one thing that seems to work wonders with lambs indoors is dose them with cobalt b12 every 12 days, they thrive well with it...

DMAXMAN

Green farmer wrote: »

That's close enough to the 1 to 7 meal ratio.

So would buying fodder beet at €40 a tonne washed / delivered be the same as €40 x 7= €280, be no better then walking into the local meal merchants and buying 1 tonne of meal at €280 ? Except fodder beet requires more handling and chopping etc.

fodder beet needs balancing for protein and minerals to get the best feed value out of it. used to feed lambs on beet tops back in the day and from this time of the year on we used to grind beet into troughs and feed them a mix of barley and soya (approx. 2 parts barley to 1 part soya). if feeding for long they need high phos minerals

Green farmer

Let us know how you get on with the beet john, €30 ish a tonne delivered is reasonable. I heard reports before, that the ewes thrive better on it then lambs, unless it's chopped as their teeth aren't strong enough yet. No doubt the meal is the best way to go, but at €300 a tonne it don't come cheap.
The fodder beet. is it expensive stuff to grow per tonne, if you could locate a contractor to do it all for you from sowing , spraying, harvesting etc ?

Or anybody know much about the maize some cattle finishers grow ?

sea12

Username John wrote: »

Got 6 ton (altho the lad who brought said it's closer to 7 ton, I wouldn't know either way) at the weekend. 200euro

I got it for in lamb ewes outside. I think it'll hold em a bit better with grass than just barley or ration.

I am not sure about fattening lambs with fodder beet. I would prefer to go with a ton of barley / some cheap ration, along with the silage.
Now - I don't have anything to base this on, I have never fattened anything on beet, just my own opinion.

How are you feeding the beet to the ewes john. Are you just tipping a transport box in the field? Are they eating much yet?

Username John

Green farmer wrote: »

Let us know how you get on with the beet john, €30 ish a tonne delivered is reasonable. I heard reports before, that the ewes thrive better on it then lambs, unless it's chopped as their teeth aren't strong enough yet. No doubt the meal is the best way to go, but at €300 a tonne it don't come cheap.
The fodder beet. is it expensive stuff to grow per tonne, if you could locate a contractor to do it all for you from sowing , spraying, harvesting etc ?

Or anybody know much about the maize some cattle finishers grow ?

See page 4 for info on beet and maize
http://www.teagasc.ie/publications/2013/1865/TeagascCropCostings2013.pdf

I dunno would either pay for sheep really green. From what I read, maybe kale / rape would be better - cheaper to grow, lambs apparently do well on rape, no need for additional feed with it (need minerals / bolus all right I think)
Never grown it, but thinking about putting it in on stubble next year... Maybe...

Username John

sea12 wrote: »

How are you feeding the beet to the ewes john. Are you just tipping a transport box in the field? Are they eating much yet?

Yep - transport box in the field.

They're picking at it. They had it last year, so they know what it is.
They don't need it yet (not lambing til mid march) but my plan is to get them used to it, so they won't tend to gorge on it... But I dunno if this is wise, or even if it'll work.

They not getting much yet, a small bit every day...