family member with paranoid schizophrenia

LegacyUser

My sister (37) has been diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia since she was in her early 20s. She had psychotic episodes twice in her life where she had to be admitted to hospital voluntarily and medicated. She does well on medication and even convinced another member of my family(who suffers with the same illness) to go to hospital when he was displaying the symptoms, he is now married and holding down a job and is very happy thanks to her.
She has stopped taking her medicine and is writing very paranoid thoughts in her diary. She lives with my elderly mother who finds it difficult to live with her.
I have tried to convince her to go to hospital and she is refusing as she thinks the medication is poison. We tried to section her but the GP won't sign as she keeps changing GPs so they don't know her well enough. We had the GP and her mental health team in the house to try and get her to go, but she is so ill now but seems to be able to hide her symtoms from GP and people who she knows have the power to section her, so the only way she will get the help she needs is if she goes voluntarily, but that is expecting the diseased organ in her body to make rational decisions. My mom has kicked her out and we are worried about her. Does anybody have similar experience with a family member with this disease, that can give me advise, please.

Taltos

MOD NOTE:
Just a reminder we can't offer medical advice here, if the thread starts down that route we'll have to close it.

ABajaninCork

Given the fact your relative has been sectioned at least once, do they have a mental health social worker? I'd try there first. Go back to the hospital that last treated your relative and ask there.

I don't know how the mental health laws stand here, but in the UK the family cannot ask for the patient to be sectioned. That has to be done by a doctor and a social worker depending on the section of the Mental Health Act they use. You see - even though the patient is unwell, they still have rights!!

gomamochi1

ABajaninCork wrote: »

Given the fact your relative has been sectioned at least once, do they have a mental health social worker? I'd try there first. Go back to the hospital that last treated your relative and ask there.

I don't know how the mental health laws stand here, but in the UK the family cannot ask for the patient to be sectioned. That has to be done by a doctor and a social worker depending on the section of the Mental Health Act they use. You see - even though the patient is unwell, they still have rights!!

Ask her current gp to request an authorised officer under the mental health act 2001 to come out from the Hse and assess if she needs invol admission for treatment to ensure her safety and that of the community. The local community mental health team can also ask the Ao to come out to assess her so it's not all lying on your feet! Best of luck and keep hounding them!!!

LegacyUser

OP here. My sister was admitted twice voluntarily as per original post. It took hours of convincing with me and two other members of my family, one who suffers from the same illness. I know she has rights.

My mother arranged to have the local mental health team and her GP to come and assess her but the GP would not sign. He didn't know her or her history, they are very slow to sign it seems that she needs to commit a crime before she can get help. She subsequently discharged herself from that psychiatric service.

When I speak to her and try to convince her to get help she is extremely abusive, I have been trying to help my sister for almost 20 years listening to how people in shops are looking at her funny and laughing at her and that is when she is on the medication it never is completely gone, but she was able to study and was doing really well in her exams. But decided to come off the drugs because of some stupid book some stupid doctor wrote about mental illness without the drugs.

When I speak to her now to try to convince her to get help she is extremely abusive and it takes its toll, I have a family of my own to take care of and I am ready to walk away from this, unless someone has some nugget of wisdom to direct me. I need to know even though she is being abusive and hates me, are my words sinking in slowly that she might eventually understand that she needs help or am I wasting my time.

As of tonight she is homeless as my mother cannot live with her manipulation and abuse any more and she (my mother) has to take care of herself, I understand that.

But what is to become of my sister?

ABajaninCork

Where was your sister sectioned? Have you spoken to the team looking after her there?? They would be the ones to sign the order - Not her GP if he doesn't know her. That is the advice I gave you in my first post. Yes, very often a crime has to be committed in order to get that help. But you have to keep on at them.

Tell them your sister is homeless and potentially a danger to herself as well as others.

EDIT: If your Mum's put her out, do you know where she's sleeping tonight - Is she at a friend's?

catonthewire

Op..


Call the mental health team who last treated your sister, make them aware that she has stopped taking her medication and is homeless...
Schizophrenia is deemed one of the most serious of psychotic disorders and a Pyscharatrist alone can section your sister if they think she is capable of harming herself or others.

LegacyUser

She was never sectioned before, she went voluntarily. We tried again yesterday to talk to her as she went missing for 5 days with no trace and only contacted my mother because she needed to get home from London.
Before we spoke to her; we spoke to the Psyche unit where we were going to bring her if she co operated, we spoke to the police, we spoke to a GP, we had all our ducks in a row, we provided them with proof from her diaries of her paranoid thoughts. But without her agreeing to come with us it was no good. They wont do anything unless she is causing a disturbance or a threat to herself or someone else, I don't believe she is a threat to herself (i cant prove it) or anyone else, all I know is that she needs hospitalisation and trying to damage her reputation in this way makes me feel uncomfortable even though I know that is what it takes.
She is in debt, she can't hold down a job and she is living a nightmare of delusions which are very apparent from her diaries. She is vulnerable, she has isolated herself from her family and friends and will not answer her phone. No one knows where she is at the moment.

Rachiee

ABajaninCork wrote: »

Where was your sister sectioned ?/quote]

OP has said sister wasn't sectioned before and has only ever been admitted voluntarily.

OP see if you can get the name of the psychiatrist over her care the community mental health team would have taken over administering her meds and supports on her discharge but if you can get back in touch with the psychiatrist whose care she was last under they may be able to help a bit/ hold more sway than the CMH team good luck.

gomamochi1

As previously stated AO is an option for family to request cmht to ask for community assessment.

sam34

ABajaninCork wrote: »

Where was your sister sectioned? Have you spoken to the team looking after her there?? They would be the ones to sign the order - Not her GP if he doesn't know her.

catonthewire wrote: »

Op..


Call the mental health team who last treated your sister, make them aware that she has stopped taking her medication and is homeless...
Schizophrenia is deemed one of the most serious of psychotic disorders and a Pyscharatrist alone can section your sister if they think she is capable of harming herself or others.

Both of these posts are incorrect. To detain someone against their will ('section someone')in this country, if that person is living in the community, requires firstly an application to be made (either by family, an authorised officer or a guard, typically) followed by a recommendation by a registered medical practitioner, usually the person's own GP but can be out of hrs GP if necessary, but crucially, this part cannot be done by a psychiatrist, it's done by someone independent. Someone in the community cannot be sectioned without both these, so it's incorrect to say that a gp shouldn't be involved or that a psychiatrist alone can section someone.

ABajaninCork

Like I say. I've plenty of experience on how the mental health laws work at home, but none here. I was thinking of the most logical people to get help from. If that's incorrect, then the OP will be able to get pointers on the right people to call...

gomamochi1

sam34 wrote: »

Both of these posts are incorrect. To detain someone against their will ('section someone')in this country, if that person is living in the community, requires firstly an application to be made (either by family, an authorised officer or a guard, typically) followed by a recommendation by a registered medical practitioner, usually the person's own GP but can be out of hrs GP if necessary, but crucially, this part cannot be done by a psychiatrist, it's done by someone independent. Someone in the community cannot be sectioned without both these, so it's incorrect to say that a gp shouldn't be involved or that a psychiatrist alone can section someone.

Concurr well done mod I was trying to clarify same with op that is why I suggested authorised officer be called upon- nationwide service now for these situations. Hope you get sorted op.

catonthewire

My apologies if my post mislead the OP, but I was honestly of the opinion that in the the event of an emergency it was possible for only one Doctor to request an admission to hospital...
Given that the poor girl has stopped taking her meds and is now deemed homeless, this would be an emergency case..

sam34

catonthewire wrote: »

My apologies if my post mislead the OP, but I was honestly of the opinion that in the the event of an emergency it was possible for only one Doctor to request an admission to hospital...
Given that the poor girl has stopped taking her meds and is now deemed homeless, this would be an emergency case..

Emergency or not, to get from the community to hospital you'll need an application followed by a recommendation, the latter being done by a gp, not a psychiatrist. To then be detained in the hospital, there has to be a psychiatrist involved. The confusion might be that it takes one gp to get someone in, a psychiatrist cannot do that bit, then once they're in, a psychiatrist will assess within 24 hrs to deem if they are detainable or not.

Hope this helps.

triona1

Agree with Sam34.
My husband has many times went voluntarily but a few times i had to get the Gardí first and have an ambulance on its way to my home they can help if she is at a time you think it is very obvious she is having an episode call them they may take her to a&e and do an evaluation for her safety.Its not a nice thing to do but you will be thanked after her treatment.Its the only thing i can think of,My Husband Has chronic personality disorder,And it is what i had to do at times.

LegacyUser

I really appreciate everyone taking time to reply to my posts. I asked a member of my family to read them to check if we have covered the above suggestions and they confirmed that we had.

I suppose I need to understand what she is experiencing and how she is perceiving our attempts to help her, is it all bad or is there somewhere in the back of her mind behind the paranoia that my real sister that I remember from years ago is there begging us to keep trying because she is powerless to help herself.

Feel

There is no longer the sister that you remember from years ago. You don't seem to accept the changing and how your sister is now. You can't change her back. If you understand what is going on for her now you will find another access how to help her. The side effects of the meds should not be underestimated. Try to listen.