Large Trees to Rear of House - Possibly Dangerous - Options?

gerrybbadd

We bought a house in April of 2014, and to the rear of the house are large trees, around about 45 - 50 foot tall.

Now, this house is in an estate, and the rear of all the houses is back to back with a property that was in existence prior to the estate being built. It seems these trees were put in to hide the estate from the person's view in the existing house.

These trees are huge, and with them being only 25 feet or so from the back of the house, have created a load of problems. The back of the house turns green from the leaves falling off, the root system of the trees has left our lower back garden bone dry (no moisture in the soil), and with them being much taller than the actual house, have prevented us from being able to get a Sky signal, or mobile phone signal.

All of these we can live with - just. However, with the weather being as blustery as it has been lately, I'm concerned that if one of these trees comes down, it'd destroy the house, given they are taller than the house itself.

It should also be noted that these trees are off of a back garden, on some spare or waste land, that while is attached to the existing property, doesn't appear to be kept as a garden etc.

I'm considering approaching the owner of the property to see if they can be cut, and maintained to a certain height. However, If I'm refused, i'm wondering what my options may be. Would the Co. Council have a say, or does anyone know if there is legislation around maintaining trees to a certain height?

Thanks guys

Mrs OBumble

A professional opinion (tree surgeon etc) that they are in fact dangerous could be a useful thing for you to have.

And I'm thinking that you need to 100% establish who owns the ground they are on.

Wabbit Ears

I know of one instance where a person had trees cut on land he considered scrubland which blocked his view and the owners took him to court. It was actually owned by a golf club. Think it cost him 7 grand to replace them as they replaced them with fairly mature trees that require huge diggers and transport costs.

Teyla Emmagan

You can approach the people who own the trees and ask them to cut them back, they are perfectly within their rights to refuse though. Your insurance should cover you regardless if anything was to happen to the trees on your property. And your neighbours might have a tree surgeon provide a report stating that they are safe for your peace of mind, but they don't have to. The council won't intervene if they're on private lands, and they aren't causing you any real issues. Lots of people live beside trees that aren't causing them any real problems, except when it's windy and they get a bit nervous. Remember that you knew they were there when you bought the property, I think it's a bit hypocritical of you to now start complaining about them.

In the interests of full disclosure though, people cutting down mature trees bugs the hell out of me.

MarkAnthony

While the OP should of course go through correct channels all the insurance in the world isn't going to help them sleep at night if the worry is a tree bisecting the house at 3am while everyone is present.

My only concern is how does a tree surgeon do a proper inspection without trespassing?

Could the local authority be of any assistance?

Mrs OBumble

Insurance may be invalid if there is a safety issue which you haven't told the insurance company about. And cover may be declined if you tell that there are trees which may demolish the house.

Wabbit Ears

MarkAnthony wrote: »

While the OP should of course go through correct channels all the insurance in the world isn't going to help them sleep at night if the worry is a tree bisecting the house at 3am while everyone is present.

My only concern is how does a tree surgeon do a proper inspection without trespassing?

Could the local authority be of any assistance?

Caveat emptor. As already stated, the trees were there when the house was purchased.

You cant being in a tree inspector to inspect trees that aren't yours, I suspect any reputable tree inspector would refuse the work under the circumstances described.

Then again, My wife wants me to cut down a tree in our back garden as its getting too tall. I really don't want to do it, its a beautiful tree which has never done anything to deserve being killed due to the very very slight chance that it may just fall over and wreck the house.

Trees are awesome, we should plant more rather than chopping them all down.

gerrybbadd

Teyla Emmagan wrote: »

Remember that you knew they were there when you bought the property, I think it's a bit hypocritical of you to now start complaining about them. In the interests of full disclosure though, people cutting down mature trees bugs the hell out of me.

Fair enough. I'm not complaining per se, I'm wondering what my options are. I suggest if you've nothing helpful to add, stay out of it. Your opinion on what bugs the hell out of you is no addition to me.

Wabbit Ears wrote: »

Caveat emptor. As already stated, the trees were there when the house was purchased. Trees are awesome, we should plant more rather than chopping them all down.

I have no real issue with mature trees. But, when these trees are a good 15 foot higher than the house, and have started to grow over into my garden - then they become a concern. I'm all for growing trees. However, I'm also a believer in maintaining these trees also, if they begin to encroach on another person's property.

I forgot to add that these trees are so huge that there is very little day light available at the back of the house. Now I know this appears "hypocritical" given that I seen the house before buying, but what needs to be understood is that, any time I went to see the house prior to buying, it was in late evening or at night, given both my & my wife's working hours. I shouldn't really have to explain myself on why the house was bought in the first place, i'm just wondering what my options might be.

A genuine thanks to all who have contributed the helpful information so far.

Wabbit Ears

You can legally cut off any of the tree that encroaches on your property, so long as you can do that from your own property.

Anything else you can discuss with the owner but they don't have to do anything, but there are options as below. You need to check with the local authority that the trees are not protected for any reason.

http://www.citizensinformationboard.ie/publications/relate/relate_2012_12.pdf

There are various common law rules about carrying out works
on shared boundaries or party structures. The Land and
Conveyancing Law Reform Act 2009 covers a wide range of
property laws. Among other things, it aims to clarify the rights
of a person who wants to carry out works on a party structure.
It provides for works orders. These are orders that allow you to
carry out works on a party structure if you have been unable
to agree such works with your adjoining landowner – your
neighbour. Effectively, it regulates the position between you
and your neighbour while the works are being carried out.
Party structure
The Act has a wide definition of a party structure. A party
structure can be any wall, arch, ceiling, floor, partition, ditch,
fence, hedge, shrub, tree, or other structure that horizontally,
vertically or in any other way:
• Divides adjoining (which is defined to include adjacent)
and separately owned buildings, or
• Is situated at or on or so close to the boundary line
between adjoining and separately owned buildings or
between such buildings and unbuilt-on lands that it is
impossible or not reasonably practical to carry out works
to the structure without access to the adjoining building
or unbuilt-on land
It includes any such structure that is situated entirely in or on
one of the adjoining buildings or unbuilt-on lands, or straddles
the boundary line between adjoining buildings or between
such buildings and unbuilt-on lands and is either co-owned by
their respective owners or subject to some division of
ownership between them.
Right to carry out works to party
structure
The Act provides that you are entitled to carry out the
following works on a party structure:
• Works that are required in order to comply with any
statutory provision, for example, the requirements of the
Building Regulations
• Exempted developments under the Planning Acts
(developments for which planning permission is not
needed) or developments for which you have planning
permission or which are required in order to comply with
the conditions of a planning permission
• Works required for the preservation of the party structure
or of any building or unbuilt-on land of which it forms a
part
• Any other works that will not cause substantial damage or
inconvenience to your neighbour or that even if they will
cause damage or inconvenience, it is nevertheless
reasonable to carry them out
You must make good any damage or reimburse your neighbour
if you cause damage in the course of the work. You are obliged
to pay your neighbour’s reasonable costs for getting
professional advice about the likely consequences of the work,
for example, an architect’s assessment, and reasonable
compensation for any inconvenience caused by the works.
However, you are entitled to take proportionate account of
your neighbour’s use and enjoyment of the party structure
when assessing the damages or costs and reduce the amount
accordingly. In effect, your neighbour must meet the costs
proportionate to the benefit received from the works.
The works that may be carried out on a party structure include:
• Carrying out inspections, drawing up plans and performing
other tasks required for, incidental to, or consequential on
any of these works
• Adjustment, alteration, cutting into or away, decoration,
demolition, improvement, lowering, maintenance, raising,
renewal, repair, replacement, strengthening or taking
down
• Finding out the course of cables, drains, pipes, sewers,
wires or other conduits and clearing, renewing, repairing or
replacing them
• Cutting, treating or replacing any hedge, tree or shrub
• Clearing or filling in ditches
Works orders
You may apply to the District Court for a works order if there is
a dispute between yourself and your neighbour about such
works. A works order allows you to carry out the work
specified, subject to whatever terms and conditions are
applied. Among other things, a works order may:
• Authorise you, or people authorised by you, to enter your
neighbour’s building or land for any purpose connected
with the works
• Require you to indemnify or give security to your
neighbour for damage, costs and expenses caused by or
arising from the works or likely to be caused or to arise
A works order may not authorise any permanent interference
with, or loss of, any easement of light or other easement or
other right relating to a party structure. An easement is a
complex legal concept but, broadly speaking, it is a right thatone landowner has over another’s land. In this context, one
important such right is the right of support, for example, the
party wall may be supporting the neighbour’s house or
outbuildings so works on the party wall have to take that into
account.
Any person affected by a works order may apply to the court to
have the order discharged or modified.
Procedure
The procedure for getting a works order is governed by Order
93A of the District Court Rules (SI 162/2010).
You must notify your neighbour of your intention to apply for
an order. The required form is available from the District
Court clerk.
There are also required forms available for an application to
the District Court for damage to be made good and for
applications to modify or discharge a works order. The other
party must be notified in these cases as well.
Disputes between neighbours as to who is liable to pay the
costs involved in party structure works works are treated in the
same way as any other civil claim.


Overhanging trees or encroaching roots may be regarded as a
nuisance and you are entitled to cut back the tree or the roots.
You do not need the permission of the tree owner to do this
provided you can do it without going on to the owner’s property.
However, as with all such matters, it would be preferable to
discuss and agree what action was required. You do need to be
careful to ensure that you do not leave the tree or, for example,
a party wall in a dangerous condition as a result of your actions.
If you need to enter the tree owner’s property and cannot get
agreement, you may apply for a works order as described above.
Utility companies
Electricity and telecommunications companies have various
rights to cut down or lop trees that are on private property and
that may obstruct wires, under the Electricity (Supply) Act 1927
as amended. They must give notice to the landowner of their
intention to do this. You may choose to have the work done and,
if you do, the utility provider must pay the costs involved.
Tree preservation orders
Under the Planning and Development Act 2000, the local
authority may make tree preservation orders if it is in the
interests of amenity or the environment.
The local authority must state its reasons for making such an
order. Tree preservation orders may, among other things:
• Prohibit the cutting down, topping, lopping or
destruction of a tree
• Require a tree owner (or occupier of the land on which
the tree is planted) to make an agreement with the local
authority for the proper management of any trees; the
local authority may agree to help with the management
including help with the costs involved
Before making such an order, the local authority must serve
notice on the tree owner and give public notice. There must
be a period of at least six weeks for observations on the
proposed order. The local authority must maintain a register
of tree preservation orders. The land owner or occupier may
appeal any such order to An Bord Pleanála.
In general, if you carry out any action that is contrary to the
conditions set in a tree preservation order, you may be
prosecuted and fined. A preservation order does not prevent
the cutting down, topping or lopping of a tree that is dead or
dying or has become dangerous or where it is necessary for
the prevention or abatement of a nuisance or hazard. It
would be advisable to consult the local authority before
taking any such action.

gerrybbadd

Wabbit Ears wrote: »

You can legally cut off any of the tree that encroaches on your property, so long as you can do that from your own property.

Anything else you can discuss with the owner but they don't have to do anything, but there are options as below. You need to check with the local authority that the trees are not protected for any reason.

Thank you for that, this is more or less the crux of what I was wondering about!:)

seamus

Interesting answer here:
http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/homes-and-property/neighbour-refuses-to-act-over-dangerous-tree-1.1922862

The part about the road doesn't apply to you, but the rest may. It would appear that a land owner has a legal obligation under health and safety legislation to do something about the trees if you can prove they pose a danger to your property.

I would definitely go about finding out who owns the land and asking them nicely if something can be done. If they're ambivalent they may be happy to let you go ahead and pay to have the removed.
If they're refusing to act, then you can explore the legal avenues that may be available to you as above.

imitation

As matter of interest, what kind of trees are they ? leylandii are notorious for turning from a nice hedge into towering trees in less than a decade, causing a hell a lot of arguements. They also arent the strongest, i saw a good few wiped out by strong winter storms a year ago. Given what everybody has said i would approach the neighbour and try and make an agreement to have them shortend, i would imagine you would have to spring for the costs.

They arent really grand old oaks either, i would agree they are a risk and a bit of an eye sore when they reach great heights and your in the shadow.

gerrybbadd

imitation wrote: »

As matter of interest, what kind of trees are they ? leylandii are notorious for turning from a nice hedge into towering trees in less than a decade, causing a hell a lot of arguements. They also arent the strongest, i saw a good few wiped out by strong winter storms a year ago. Given what everybody has said i would approach the neighbour and try and make an agreement to have them shortend, i would imagine you would have to spring for the costs.

They arent really grand old oaks either, i would agree they are a risk and a bit of an eye sore when they reach great heights and your in the shadow.

I'm not sure what they are, but i thing they may be the leylandii, judging by Google Images.

When we had a Sky Engineer out to see if we could get Sky installed, he reckoned that we could get the trees cut for the sake of the signal, but they'd surely have the signal blocked again within 6 months, due to the rapid growth of the types of trees. He even went onto the roof to see if a signal could be got from the chimney, but the trees had all blocked

helimachoptor

Op defintely get it looked at, in my estate at the weekend one of the trees (around 50 foot) was completely uprooted and fell over

W1ll1s

The council should help you. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1969894/Leylandii-dispute-ends-in-light-relief.html

If they are leylandii, they are a real PITA

Markcheese

+1 on leylandia - anyone who takes out a leylandia hedge and replaces it with something height appropriate and native is ok in my book -