Crossing suckler cows to Belgian Blue Bull for export grade calves

sucklerfarmer

Hi all,

I have a selection of fairly good quality cows which are either aubrac cross out of shorthorn or saler cross out of shorthorn. Cows have good square and shape. I have used aubrac bulls for the last few years and find them very very easy calving. However I am looking to make more money from the sucklers and thinking of using Belgian blue bull on the cows.
I heard that culard charolias would be a good cross but its very hard to get culard in Ireland at a reasonable price.

Would it be possible to buy a blue bull which would not be too hard calving. I do not intend on going down the road of jacking every calf or caesarians..... has anyone any suggestions/opinions. I have never used a belgian blue bull or blue A.I. in the past. Are blue bulls lazy, have they bad feet, are the calves very sort regarding pneumonia.

Many thanks

LivInt20

sucklerfarmer wrote: »

Hi all,

I have a selection of fairly good quality cows which are either aubrac cross out of shorthorn or saler cross out of shorthorn. Cows have good square and shape. I have used aubrac bulls for the last few years and find them very very easy calving. However I am looking to make more money from the sucklers and thinking of using Belgian blue bull on the cows.
I heard that culard charolias would be a good cross but its very hard to get culard in Ireland at a reasonable price.

Would it be possible to buy a blue bull which would not be too hard calving. I do not intend on going down the road of jacking every calf or caesarians..... has anyone any suggestions/opinions. I have never used a belgian blue bull or blue A.I. in the past. Are blue bulls lazy, have they bad feet, are the calves very sort regarding pneumonia.

Many thanks

Try AI on a few select cows first of all. BB bulls could be expensive and if it doesn't work out for you then an expensive mistake.

Select easy calving BB bulls such as STQ, easy calving and produces export quality weanlings. For sure AI BB bulls are worth trying.

Robson99

I would use a good AI CharolaisThey are selling as good as Belgian Blues. If you don't produce the right BB weanling then you are far better of with a Charolais.

onyerbikepat

Ya, I think you would be better off with Charolais too. To get export type BB's you need muscle and shape on the cow side of things too. I don't think Saler x Shorthorn would be good enough. Very hard to go wrong with Charolais apart from cavling problems, but that should be ok with Saler in the cow breeding.

Kovu

I wouldn't buy a blue bull straight off the bat if you've never used him before. You have no idea if he'd cross well on your cows or not. If I was going to change completely I'd take a year out to AI them and see how that works.

I've no idea of your operation but would it be possible to do 50/50 ai of Culard/BB. I always found culards to be hit or miss tbh. Blue calves can be soft alright but far less dopey than a CH calf.

leg wax

dont waste your time with bb as you dont have the right cow,culard ch is your bull .

Farrell

This maybe a stupid question (sorry OP), but would his Aurbac cows not bring muscle?
OP we've a Saler off a black Simmental who brings muscle in her calves, 3 calves so far 2 BA & 1 BB.
I do agree with most suggesting AI, have used Culard & BB.
BB generally have short gestations which means the calf can be smaller & thus easier calved, good cow management of the cow's diet precalving can also help for a smaller calf & hopefully an easier birth.
Have heard Culards can be short gestation too, only 1 born here with no assistance

dh1985

sucklerfarmer wrote: »

Hi all,

I have a selection of fairly good quality cows which are either aubrac cross out of shorthorn or saler cross out of shorthorn. Cows have good square and shape. I have used aubrac bulls for the last few years and find them very very easy calving. However I am looking to make more money from the sucklers and thinking of using Belgian blue bull on the cows.
I heard that culard charolias would be a good cross but its very hard to get culard in Ireland at a reasonable price.

Would it be possible to buy a blue bull which would not be too hard calving. I do not intend on going down the road of jacking every calf or caesarians..... has anyone any suggestions/opinions. I have never used a belgian blue bull or blue A.I. in the past. Are blue bulls lazy, have they bad feet, are the calves very sort regarding pneumonia.

Many thanks

How do you find the shorthorns for calving. We have a few of SH x SI and they wouldnt be the roomiest.

sucklerfarmer

Hi lads - thanks for the replys

Firstly AI is not an option in my opinion for 2 reasons. No. 1 I work as well as farm so wont see all the cows bulling. Secondly I run a very tight calving period and a bull is great for this....I have tried AI in the past but I find that you end up with cows not going on calf as well as a bull and cows go late and are useless.

Regarding the cows - most are now second generation saler or aubrac so not much shorthorn in them. They are good square cows and I believe that aubrac cows crossed will bring great muscle?????


Has anyone used or had experience with easy calving Belgian blue stock bulls - is there such a thing. Some people have told me that Belgian blue calves are very handy calves at birth? Also someone mentioned using a charolias bull - would these not be just as difficult to calve as a Belgian blue -- charolias are well known for difficulty calving I thought.


Culard charolias are supposedly handy little calves at birth - would like a culard bull but very very hard to get

Thanks

Mad4simmental

Put up a pic of a few of your cows it would be easier to say then.
Blonde might be an option, very easy calveing and good musle and growth rate.

bogman_bass

Of all the breeds I would never buy a blue as a stock bull. AI is the only way to go. Dodgey feet and unbalanced body shape mean they aren't made for mounting cows

onyerbikepat

They are fierce pricey too compared to other breeds.
And lazy too - neighbors has a BB cross as a stock bull. I was passing the field one day and he was thrown out with 2 feet up in the air. Convinced he was dead. I was shouting at him and was right up on him, before he turned his head a little to see what all the fuss was about.

einn32

Got bb out of montbeliarde here in the past. Good muscle on them. Sold well as calves. Very dozy though. Rarely suckled and hard to feed by hand even. Had a bb weanling here in slats last year and she was crippled. usually hard to calve too. Easy calving blues used be very small.

porter shark

Your cows don't suit blue bull. End of story

onyerbikepat

leg wax wrote: »

dont waste your time with bb as you dont have the right cow,culard ch is your bull .

Legs, how did you get on with the Parthanaise cows? How did they compare to the blonde cows? I remember you saying that you were hoping for more milk.

Farrell

porter shark wrote: »

Your cows don't suit blue bull. End of story

What would be a suitable Cow for a BB?

Mad4simmental

Farrell wrote: »

What would be a suitable Cow for a BB?

Lim, part, blonde,

Genghis Cant

Without seeing the cows it's hard to give an exact answer, but based on my perception of your cows, and correct pre calving management, a good Ch bull should produce the goods for you.

Farrell

Mad4simmental wrote: »

Lim, part, blonde,

Allot of those breeds aren't as strong on the maternal side.
In this case the OP has good Maternal cows - AUxSH & SAxSH.
Maybe an option is to bring use a LM/PA/BA bull to get replacements & then go down the route of BB or even CH for the Export Calf

sucklerfarmer

Hi lads - my cows are fairly good for milk. I choose aubrac and saler as they have a big pelvis so should be good in theory for calving. I have more aubrac cows than saler as saler wild.

I don't really see the point in using standard charolais as they will not be good enough for live export.

I thought that a good aubrac cow crossed to a Belgian blue would give a good muscly calf

onyerbikepat

Try a few with AI first and see how you get on.

Kovu

OP it's very hard to give a real opinion without seeing your cattle. In theory a good aubrac should breed a stylish blue suitable for export, I wouldn't be so happy about the salers doing the same, I'd imagine they'd average out with a squarer/plainer rump.

Not every cow can produce export quality and a bad/average blue will make a lot less in the mart than an average charolais.
If you forget about the export calves and think about the market your cows can breed to suit, I'd seriously consider a normal charolais bull with good weanling traits and try to get goldeny charolais calves that older farmers go mad for.

If you were at the ring this year at all, nice charolais weanlings were beating a lot of calves hands down for €/kg.