casualty animals

djmc

http://www.agriland.ie/news/farmer-convicted-transporting-injured-animal-factory/
Just to let some older farmers know the danger's of taking injured or causality animals to the factory.
While it was OK 15 years ago today its not.
I remember as a young lad taking downer cows to the factory for the old lad that couldn't even stand up which was common practice and acceptable during the 90s
A few years ago I had a heifer break its leg bulling got it caught in a cubicle and vet told me I would have to put her down l asked a bit shocked what about the factory as she was wasn't injected yet.
He asked if I would like to go to jail which was an even bigger shock 😱

foxy farmer

I wonder how common is the on farm slaughter option.? Thats a bigger joke if you ask me. Stun a beast bleed it lob in some form of a refrigerated trailer and then proceed to the factory where they will happily accept a DEAD animal on the premises for slaughter.
You could be done for sending an in calf cow up the chute now.

whelan2

foxy farmer wrote: »

I wonder how common is the on farm slaughter option.? Thats a bigger joke if you ask me. Stun a beast bleed it lob in some form of a refrigerated trailer and then proceed to the factory where they will happily accept a DEAD animal on the premises for slaughter.
You could be done for sending an in calf cow up the chute now.

i enquired about the on faarm slaughter option in my area, main problem was guy who does it is very slow to pay, cheapest option was to get knackery

whelan2

the whole casualty animal thing is a very grey area, vet was telling me he got in alot of trouble for writting a cert for an animal-which in his mind was fit to go to the factory- but when the animal got to the factory they said it was not

rangler1

whelan2 wrote: »

the whole casualty animal thing is a very grey area, vet was telling me he got in alot of trouble for writting a cert for an animal-which in his mind was fit to go to the factory- but when the animal got to the factory they said it was not

Yea, my vet makes it clear that he's certifying that the animal has had no drugs, not that it's fit for human consumption,
Also foxy, is it not that they'll slaughter the animal for you, any that I've heard of they give the meat back to you

whelan2

rangler1 wrote: »

Yea, my vet makes it clear that he's certifying that the animal has had no drugs, not that it's fit for human consumption,
Also foxy, is it not that they'll slaughter the animal for you, any that I've heard of they give the meat back to you

no there was a guy in meath who would come to your farm , slaughter animal and pay you for the animal, problem was getting paid

Mad4simmental

Depends who you know I suppose. Didn't have one here in a long time (tank god) but the local factory will take them as long as they have a hart beat. Around the back and sling them upto the dropping box.

severeoversteer

Mad4simmental wrote: »

Depends who you know I suppose. Didn't have one here in a long time (tank god) but the local factory will take them as long as they have a hart beat. Around the back and sling them upto the dropping box.

its obviously been a long time since you had a casualty animal !

I have killed thousands of beasts in the two local factories here and recently not for love nor money would they take a beast that's down or has a broken leg

even though the last one that broke a leg here was so cract he was doing laps of the yard and well able to make his way up the factory chute !

J DEERE

Will the private butcher take them for slaughter for ur own use?

rangler1

severeoversteer wrote: »

its obviously been a long time since you had a casualty animal !

I have killed thousands of beasts in the two local factories here and recently not for love nor money would they take a beast that's down or has a broken leg

even though the last one that broke a leg here was so cract he was doing laps of the yard and well able to make his way up the factory chute !

Phones with cameras are so common now that no factory going to take the chance of the supermarkets seeing a picture of them taking a casualty. can't blame them really

TITANIUM.

foxy farmer wrote: »

You could be done for sending an in calf cow up the chute now.

Are you serious about this?
Any experience of this lads?
I would have thought that thete was the world of in calf cows slaughtered every week.

foxy farmer

TITANIUM. wrote: »

Are you serious about this?
Any experience of this lads?
I would have thought that thete was the world of in calf cows slaughtered every week.

Probably not being enforced so. Read it on the FJ around 3 yrs ago. Drew it up with vet wondering what was the story in local factory. He had heard of it but said that head vet in factory was reasonable.
Probably a glut of cows on point of calving turning up at factories.

severeoversteer

rangler1 wrote: »

Phones with cameras are so common now that no factory going to take the chance of the supermarkets seeing a picture of them taking a casualty. can't blame them really

there should be something done to enable the meat from animals with say broken legs to be saleable

I had the finest of a finished bullock break a leg on a gate in the slatted shed about 2 weeks before he was to be killed

and yet factory wouldn't take him, local butcher wasn't licensed to kill on other premises or outside of his killing day. there was no where I could go with 450kg of meat ! worth about 1700 euro at the time

it was a sickener !

lets say if I had abeast just after breaking a leg and I got vet out he did a cert saying no medicine received and had some sort of system of humanely killing the beast at the farm and loading him up and away to factory ?

anything would be better than what happens now

and I says to myself what about all the starving people in Africa !:rolleyes:

Capercaille

I think the reason why factories do not kill cattle with broken legs is because of animal welfare reasons. A beast with a broken leg would experience extra suffering being loaded and then transported to factory.

severeoversteer

Capercaille wrote: »

I think the reason why factories do not kill cattle with broken legs is because of animal welfare reasons. A beast with a broken leg would experience extra suffering being loaded and then transported to factory.

that's why I said use a humane killer at home in the farm yard

and then have some service to bring the dead beast to factory !

whelan2

severeoversteer wrote: »

that's why I said use a humane killer at home in the farm yard

and then have some service to bring the dead beast to factory !

you still need to get vets cert to say animal is fit for factory, which means a vets call out fee, knackery works out cheaper than animal being condemed, its a joke of a system

Ltrvale

severeoversteer wrote: »

that's why I said use a humane killer at home in the farm yard

and then have some service to bring the dead beast to factory !

this wouldnt work as the animal has to have its inside removed within thirty minutes of dying, also the animals has to be bled straight after being stunned if it to be used for human consumption

its all about animal welfare and protecting the industry, if one video of animal with a broken leg in a factory was to be circulated on the likes of facebook or youtube it would cause serious problems

rangler1

Bradfield wrote: »

this wouldnt work as the animal has to have its inside removed within thirty minutes of dying, also the animals has to be bled straight after being stunned if it to be used for human consumption

its all about animal welfare and protecting the industry, if one video of animal with a broken leg in a factory was to be circulated on the likes of facebook or youtube it would cause serious problems

I think the best idea is shoot the animal and get over it, thinking about it would drive you round the twist

foxy farmer

Bradfield wrote: »

this wouldnt work as the animal has to have its inside removed within thirty minutes of dying, also the animals has to be bled straight after being stunned if it to be used for human consumption

its all about animal welfare and protecting the industry, if one video of animal with a broken leg in a factory was to be circulated on the likes of facebook or youtube it would cause serious problems

I know of an individual who had a reputation for collecting and taking fresh dead cattle into a meat plant years ago. All stopped when the length of time they were dead got longer and longer. He'll always be remembered for it.
I'm sure Tescos Dunnes SuperValu etc would love to see dead cattle being brought into a factory thats also filling their contracts under QA. A joke of the highest order.
Factories would kill anything if they weren't supervised by Dept of Ag. The horse meat scandal highlighted that the industry as a whole isn't policed half enough.
As far as I'm concerned all animals should be alive and mobile going in the factory gate. Id say if we saw what went into factories back along we'd be gone off meat.

Ltrvale

foxy farmer wrote: »

As far as I'm concerned all animals should be alive and mobile going in the factory gate. Id say if we saw what went into factories back along we'd be gone off meat.

i couldn't agree more. id say it would be frightening but i think things have change for the better in that respect

severeoversteer

what I am saying is there needs to some sort of legislation and procedures in place for dealing with injured stock, especially beef animals that are nearly finished and worth big €€€€€

or else make livestock insurance cheap and available

its just too big of a loss for farmers to take

foxy farmer

severeoversteer wrote: »

what I am saying is there needs to some sort of legislation and procedures in place for dealing with injured stock, especially beef animals that are nearly finished and worth big €€€€€

or else make livestock insurance cheap and available

its just too big of a loss for farmers to take

There is but the damn thing is so full of constraints and bureaucracy that its almost unworkable. I'd say if you did go down the casualty slaughter road by the time you were finished with vets, certs, factory staff, dept etc you'd be blue in the head from it all.
Call the knackery put the animal out of its misery accept the loss and move on. God knows I've done it often enough.

Kevhog1988

Could the animal not be butchered and put in your own freezer??

Father is a qualified factory butcher. Reckons he had done a lot of that say 20 years ago. Local farmers hot him to butcher one for themselves.

just do it

TITANIUM. wrote: »

Are you serious about this?
Any experience of this lads?
I would have thought that thete was the world of in calf cows slaughtered every week.

I'd an in-calf reactor that the department valued as in - calf and the meat entered the food chain so I don't think so.

This bullock had a broken femur. That's the thigh bone and very hard to break. It must have been in a shocking state.

just do it

There is another angle to this regarding meat tenderness. Relaxed animals kill better and the meat is more tender. What would be the meat like from an animal that is in shock and has tons of inflammatory cells running through its blood stream to every tissue in its body?

whelan2

theemigrant wrote: »

Could the animal not be butchered and put in your own freezer??

Father is a qualified factory butcher. Reckons he had done a lot of that say 20 years ago. Local farmers hot him to butcher one for themselves.

what about the paper work?

Kevhog1988

whelan2 wrote: »

what about the paper work?

Not sure on that side

Kevhog1988

whelan2 wrote: »

what about the paper work?

Not sure on that side

J.O. Farmer

foxy farmer wrote: »

You could be done for sending an in calf cow up the chute now.

Surely the 8th amendment doesn't apply to unborn cattle. I can see that a cow on the point of calving shouldn't be slaughtered but what about one say 3 months gone.

Capercaille

foxy farmer wrote: »

You could be done for sending an in calf cow up the chute now.

I think you get in trouble sending in a cow that is actually calving (rotten calf in her or cow with a twist in calf-bed)

J.O. Farmer wrote: »

Surely the 8th amendment doesn't apply to unborn cattle. I can see that a cow on the point of calving shouldn't be slaughtered but what about one say 3 months gone.

It would be some dose if every farmer had to get all cows scanned to make sure they were not in-calf before going to factory.

severeoversteer

whelan2 wrote: »

what about the paper work?

there isn't an aweful lot of paperwork and it doesn't cost big money but knowing my luck

the 3 local lads that slaughter are only licensed to kill on certain days.

so if I have a casualty on a tuesday and the mans killing day was a Monday im screwed !

they are allocated specific days so that the department knows when they are killing so they can have spot inspections to check up on them.

so if a department lad comes into his place and see's a carcase freshly hung up he will know that he killed him on a day that he wasn't supposed to.




I have the livestock theft insurance so that's one less thing to loose money on, but some sort of casualty insurance for stock is needed.

just do it

severeoversteer wrote: »

I have the livestock theft insurance so that's one less thing to loose money on, but some sort of casualty insurance for stock is needed.

How is that calculated - per head? How much is it?

whelan2

severeoversteer wrote: »

there isn't an aweful lot of paperwork and it doesn't cost big money but knowing my luck

the 3 local lads that slaughter are only licensed to kill on certain days.

so if I have a casualty on a tuesday and the mans killing day was a Monday im screwed !

they are allocated specific days so that the department knows when they are killing so they can have spot inspections to check up on them.

so if a department lad comes into his place and see's a carcase freshly hung up he will know that he killed him on a day that he wasn't supposed to.




I have the livestock theft insurance so that's one less thing to loose money on, but some sort of casualty insurance for stock is needed.

would you still need a vet cert?

severeoversteer

whelan2 wrote: »

would you still need a vet cert?

ya,

if you would call the scribble the vet does a script :rolleyes:

he gave it to me even though no one has ever asked me for it !

so on second thoughts you might not need it

the local lad that slaughters them does his own paperwork same as any factory

severeoversteer

just do it wrote: »

How is that calculated - per head? How much is it?

didn't ask for a breakdown, sorry

I just looked at the figure and wrote the cheque

wasn't too dear though !;)

Lizard_Moon

severeoversteer wrote: »

ya,

if you would call the scribble the vet does a script :rolleyes:

he gave it to me even though no one has ever asked me for it !

so on second thoughts you might not need it

the local lad that slaughters them does his own paperwork same as any factory

There are two official Casualty Slaughter Certs. One for fit to transport to factory and one for on farm slaughter.
In factory-Basically has to be able to walk off trailer unassisted at the very least. No withdrawal times. Meat fit for human consumption. Big list of what not allowed. You will be up sh*t creek if you transport a broken leg as animal's welfare main concern of dept.
On farm- inspected and cert from vet b4 killed by butcher, with vet to witness. Can kill broken leg but not if sticking through the skin. Other stuff same as in factory. Meat pretty good as animal not stressed apparently. You will need a big freezer though!

Pregnant cattle- cannot transport a cow actively calving to factory so no rotten calves, hip locks etc. Covered by brucellosis and welfare legislation. No problem killing pregnant cattle just a terrible waste.

The man in red and black

Lizard_Moon wrote: »

Pregnant cattle- cannot transport a cow actively calving to factory so no rotten calves, hip locks etc. Covered by brucellosis and welfare legislation. No problem killing pregnant cattle just a terrible waste.

There is a rule on transporting and slaughtering pregnant animals. I don't have the legislation available to me to check it but there is a specific % of the gestation above which the cow is not meant to be transported or slaughtered. I would like to say it is during the last 3 weeks of pregnancy but I am open to correction. There is a figure on it though not just actively calving. Perhaps someone else can put the exact date on it?

Kovu

The man in red and black wrote: »

There is a figure on it though not just actively calving. Perhaps someone else can put the exact date on it?

Welfare of animals during transport..
I found that very interesting reading actually. I hadn't known some of it.

Unfitness to travel includes animals if for example;
• they are unable to move independently without pain or to walk unassisted
• they have a severe open wound, or prolapse
• they are pregnant females for whom 90% or more of the expected gestation
period has already passed, or females who have given birth in the previous
week

orm0nd

severeoversteer wrote: »

didn't ask for a breakdown, sorry

I just looked at the figure and wrote the cheque

wasn't too dear though !;)

what excess ?

djmc

Anyone know where you can find info for someone to slaughter on farm for certain areas.
Its a fair hit to take price of animal + vet charge + animal disposal charge, I would rather stick it in the deep freeze if I could've.
It seems an awful waste of meat to kill and dump a perfectly good animal a bit like the wonky veg and over quota fish.
Even bvd calves would be better off being given free to restaurants homeless shelters or hospitals when there is no health risks attached to it.

arctictree

I'd say the main problem is that if you allow it, lads will take the piss.