Biology, Physics, and Chemistry...which two?

Mr Rhode Island Red

Hello LC Forum,

I'm a TY landed with an subject options form for fifth year. I want to do 2 science subjects because it was my strongest subject at JC (along with History) and I have a genuine interest in Science and can see myself doing a "sciency" course after school.

I'm lost though for which two to pick. I like all of them almost equally, although I find Chemistry marginally more difficult. I got an A in JC HL Science and HL Maths.

I'm torn between:
Biology and Physics
Biology and Chemistry
Chemistry and Physics

I've heard various opinions on the three choices. One teacher told me to avoid Biology and Physics combination because there is pretty much zero overlap between them (why that would matter I don't know). He said for most people doing 2 science subjects, Chemistry is generally one of them (is this true?)

I fear that Chemistry will be over my head and will require a disproportionate amount of work to do well, and I don't want other subjects to suffer because of this.

Others say that Biology is píz a very handy subject if you can dedicate yourself to a steady amount of rote learning.

And somebody else told me that Physics is the hardest and the most unpredictable of the Sciences.

Your Opinions on the three sciences, and which ones make good/bad combos?

(BTW Re: Chemistry... I don't really want to be a doctor, or a vet, or a dentist, so don't consider which subjects apply to which college courses)

(BTW, BTW I'm not being prejudiced, Ag. Science is also a science but I'm nipping it at the bud because it's a joke in our school unfortunately)

TOO LONG; DIDN'T READ: TY Student looking for opinions on Biology, Chemistry and Physics.

Peregrine

Would you consider Applied Mathematics?

ABCE

Do Biology regardless.My easiest chapter so far in 5th year.

Between Chemistry and Physics...If you're quite good at looking at things from a logical point of view, go with Physics. There's just over 20 experiments in total I think, and drawing graphs based on the results you get from them is also quite important.
I do all 3 and for me Chemistry < Physics in terms of the amount of work you have to do at home and for tests etc..just a personal opinion.
Because both are relatively hard, just go with the one you like..

Raspberry Fileds

Reckon there should definitely be a stick thread discussing this.

HL Biol is the most popular, taken by about 25k (also most popular non-core subject); next Chem with about 7k; then Physics with about 5k. Applied Maths is taken by about 1.5k.

Physics and Chem have strikingly similar grade distributions: about a fifth will get an A; half will get A or B. Biology has ~15% A-rate (v. high by my reckoning considering how many take it).


I took Chem and Physics. There is effectively no over-lap in content, but there probably could be said to be in terms of thought-process. Chem certainly has a longer syllabus, and requires a considerable amount of rote-learning.

Personally I would take Phys/Bio (if I had to take two): for all the work that one has to put into Chem, I would rather do a little bit extra and be guaranteed of a Bio A.

EoghanIRL

I would do all 3 and keep all my options open .

The_N4sir

I currently do Chemistry and Physics. You have to somewhat understand the material in both subjects but personally I find physics easier than Chemistry. Yes, there are difficult sections on both which require more thinking but once you keep going over them they are not too bad after a while.
I find myself studying less for physics than chemistry since i find it a bit easier and the experiments aren't overly difficult.

Just my view.

Raspberry Fileds

EoghanIRL wrote: »

I would do all 3 and keep all my options open .

Very few courses stipulate having taken a particular science subject. Chem is only required by UCC Medicine, TCD Pharmacy, UCD Veterinary and...something else that I can't remember. Basically, while a lot of courses will require one to have taken at least one science course, few stipulate which.

DublinArnie

I do biology and Physchem. That means I get the taste of everything, and Physchem is seen as the best subject because it doesn't go into super in depth like the physics/chemistry counterparts but it touches on a lot of things - like most LC subjects should. The exam is really nice, just have a glance at the past papers now.

There is a lot of overlap, especially if you do Applied Maths aswell (i do it).

I'd highly recommend biology, Physchem and applied maths. Lovely subjects

EoghanIRL

Raspberry Fileds wrote: »

Very few courses stipulate having taken a particular science subject. Chem is only required by UCC Medicine, TCD Pharmacy, UCD Veterinary and...something else that I can't remember. Basically, while a lot of courses will require one to have taken at least one science course, few stipulate which.

I did all 3 . My course required chemistry and biology but I find physics really useful in some aspects of my course. Something I never thought would happen . Understanding how muscles work , stresses and strains etc is all physics . I think courses with surgical modules definitely complement physics in terms of understanding forces you apply by doing different procedures . Even though they only require biology and chemistry .

mendelmania

I do Bio and Chem!!!

Biology is a lot more Englishy and the marking scheme can a bit peculiar at times. Even though I prefer it to chemistry, I usually get better grades in chemistry? Gotta say tho it is handy in that it's not the hardest thing in the world to get your head around.

If you don't mind maths and like a bit of a challenge chemistry is a good subject to pick. I didn't like it much for junior cert but trust me when I say that junior cert chemistry is a WHOLE different story to leaving cert chemistry.

What I'd say is a good idea is to check out the branches of science that sound most appealing to you. I am most interested in genetics and so I picked bio & chem. ALSO maybe investigate your possible teachers in each subject - teachers have the biggest impact on your experience with the subject

spurious

Not all schools are in a position to offer all three. Some, as a compromise, offer Biology and Phys/Chem.

DublinArnie

spurious wrote: »

Not all schools are in a position to offer all three. Some, as a compromise, offer Biology and Phys/Chem.

Yeah, and there's nothing wrong with Physchem to be honest. If you're conflicted with the three sciences, why would you not chose Phsychem and Biology combination if you can only do two subjects?

I'm sure any science teacher would be qualified to teach LC Physchem if they're able to teach them separately.

Mr Rhode Island Red

Physchem isn't offered as a subject in our school

DublinArnie

Mr Rhode Island Red wrote: »

Physchem isn't offered as a subject in our school

That sucks, but maybe you should ask your teacher or principle? If enough people are interested, maybe something can be done about it?

Raspberry Fileds

DublinArnie wrote: »

That sucks, but maybe you should ask your teacher or principle? If enough people are interested, maybe something can be done about it?

Around three-hundred take it per year. It was argued before on here about the merits of Phys/Chem. My contribution was that, in having a 50:50 split between the subjects, you don't merely take half the difficulty from each distinct subject. That is to say that the difficulty in learning Phys/Chem lies somewhere between studying one subject on its own and studying them together, and that only a moderate amount of extra application would allow a student to perform as well in both Physics and Chemistry as they would in just Phys/Chem.

DublinArnie

Raspberry Fileds wrote: »

Around three-hundred take it per year. It was argued before on here about the merits of Phys/Chem. My contribution was that, in having a 50:50 split between the subjects, you don't merely take half the difficulty from each distinct subject. That is to say that the difficulty in learning Phys/Chem lies somewhere between studying one subject on its own and studying them together, and that only a moderate amount of extra application would allow a student to perform as well in both Physics and Chemistry as they would in just Phys/Chem.

I see what you mean, just like everything - it depends on the person.

Throwing difficultly away, I just like to get a feel for all the topics so my choices for the CAO can be more suited to my interests.

Username6212

Hello I'm a sixth year who does all three subjects, in my opinion either go with chemistry and physics or biology and chemistry. A knowledge of chemistry will greatly help your understanding of biology, likewise chemistry and physics will really compliment eachother however not as much as the combination of biology and chemistry.

But if you can try to do all three! It's a really fun combination of subjects, all of them compliment eachother, the trio will tie together in a nice little bow

Raspberry Fileds

Username6212 wrote: »

Chemistry and physics will really compliment each other

Is that true, though? I'm racking my brain for any possible example.

Mr Rhode Island Red

Would doing all three sciences be like putting all my eggs in one basket though? Fair enough I like science and am good at science...but would it be a better idea for me to have a "break-away" subject like History or Music or DCG in the mix as well?

Raspberry Fileds

Mr Rhode Island Red wrote: »

Would doing all three sciences be like putting all my eggs in one basket though? Fair enough I like science and am good at science...but would it be a better idea for me to have a "break-away" subject like History or Music or DCG in the mix as well?

The subjects vary to such an extent, and Biology requires so little understanding, that it's not the case that it would be a big gamble.

That said, I would definitely recommend a less taxing subject, as well.

If you play an instrument well, a high grade in Music is supposedly very easily achievable. And if it's a classical instrument, there's huge overlap with theory.

Slow Show

Raspberry Fileds wrote: »

Is that true, though? I'm racking my brain for any possible example.

Wouldn't a lot of atomic theory and radioactivity overlap?

Raspberry Fileds

Slow Show wrote: »

Wouldn't a lot of atomic theory and radioactivity overlap?

But those are tiny parts of the Physics syllabus. Radiation: distinguish between alpha, beta and gamma rays and show radioactive decay of an atom. Atomic Theory is even less substantial.

coolerboy

Raspberry Fileds wrote: »

But those are tiny parts of the Physics syllabus. Radiation: distinguish between alpha, beta and gamma rays and show radioactive decay of an atom. Atomic Theory is even less substantial.

What about The Mole (Boyles Law,) etc that's a big part in both physics and chemistry

Mr Rhode Island Red

To be honest I'm not really that bothered about which subjects compliment each other; I'm not going to pick a subject solely because a small part of it overlaps with another subject.

On another point, would not doing chemistry completely eliminate me from Pharmacy? I know Cork and Dublin/RCSI list it as a requirement but are they the only places that Pharmacy can be done in Ireland?

Raspberry Fileds

coolerboy wrote: »

What about The Mole (Boyles Law,) etc that's a big part in both physics and chemistry

The Mole almost never features in LC physics - I think there was a Particle Physics question a while back. And Boyle's Law is possibly the most intuitive of all the physics laws and hardly a big part of either subject.

Slow Show

Raspberry Fileds wrote: »

The Mole almost never features in LC physics - I think there was a Particle Physics question a while back. And Boyle's Law is possibly the most intuitive of all the physics laws and hardly a big part of either subject.

You can't deny that there is overlap though, however small, between the two courses, and thus they do complement one another to an extent.:p

Mr Rhode Island Red wrote: »

To be honest I'm not really that bothered about which subjects compliment each other; I'm not going to pick a subject solely because a small part of it overlaps with another subject.

On another point, would not doing chemistry completely eliminate me from Pharmacy? I know Cork and Dublin/RCSI list it as a requirement but are they the only places that Pharmacy can be done in Ireland?

If you're gonna pick any of the science subjects and looking to keep your doors open, go for Chemistry. Other than pure denominated Physics courses I don't think there's any course that specifically requires Physics or Biology but quite a few require Chemistry. I think that not doing it would rule you out for Pharmacy though I couldn't say so with absolute certainty. The three colleges offering Pharmacy in Ireland are UCC, RCSI and Trinity, though there are certainly other, longer routes into it.

Raspberry Fileds

Mr Rhode Island Red wrote: »

To be honest I'm not really that bothered about which subjects compliment each other; I'm not going to pick a subject solely because a small part of it overlaps with another subject.

On another point, would not doing chemistry completely eliminate me from Pharmacy? I know Cork and Dublin/RCSI list it as a requirement but are they the only places that Pharmacy can be done in Ireland?

According to this Qualifax tool, the third level courses which require a particular science subject are:


Biology:

Genetics - UCC

Human Health and Disease - TCD


Chemistry:

Medicine, Dentistry, Pharmacy - UCC

Veterinary - UCD

Pharmacy - TCD

Public Health Nutrition, Human Health and Dietetics - DIT


Physics:

Theoretical Physics - TCD


Most of those require another science subject, as well.

Raspberry Fileds

Slow Show wrote: »

You can't deny that there is overlap though, however small, between the two courses, and thus they do complement one another to an extent.:p

No, I can't deny that I was just responding to someone who said Physics and Chem "really compliment each other".

Username6212

Raspberry Fileds wrote: »

Is that true, though? I'm racking my brain for any possible example.

The atomics physics section has overlap with radioactivity, the absorption and emission spectrum in light has overlap with bohr, a knowledge of energy levels and electrons ties in with electricity

Username6212

I'm by no means trying to get across that there is a massive overlap, but you get to discover topics from each subject from a different perspective, personally that helped me and I found it enjoyable. Did cut down any of the work load? Not really

Raspberry Fileds

Username6212 wrote: »

The atomics physics section has overlap with radioactivity, the absorption and emission spectrum in light has overlap with bohr, a knowledge of energy levels and electrons ties in with electricity

Username6212 wrote: »

I'm by no means trying to get across that there is a massive overlap, but you get to discover topics from each subject from a different perspective, personally that helped me and I found it enjoyable. Did cut down any of the work load? Not really

I get what you're saying, but those are very small elements of each syllabus.

Beca19

I do the 3 and if I'd to pick 2 I'd probably pick biology and chemistry... Even though I actually prefer physics to biology, biology is a lot easier! Chemistry is a requirement for a good few things as seen above and also massively interesting imo but if you don't like chemistry and love physics then just go for them, you can get into the vast majority of science course with 2 of any of the sciences

Ompala

Raspberry Fileds wrote: »

Is that true, though? I'm racking my brain for any possible example.

I'm probably reading it wrong, but were they talking about how both subjects develop use of logical thinking and reasoning, whereas Biology is more rote learning based?

Raspberry Fileds

Ompala wrote: »

I'm probably reading it wrong, but were they talking about how both subjects develop use of logical thinking and reasoning, whereas Biology is more rote learning based?

Nope! I conceded that point above: "I took Chem and Physics. There is effectively no over-lap in content, but there probably could be said to be in terms of thought-process."

Ompala

Raspberry Fileds wrote: »

Nope! I conceded that point above: "I took Chem and Physics. There is effectively no over-lap in content, but there probably could be said to be in terms of thought-process."

It was a late day in work and I probably should have been asleep when I was reading this thread :P But yeah, I do accept that content wise there isn't huge overlap, but thought processes are similar.

And on a completely unrelated note, I see people making the same mistake I made when I was in LC regarding use of compliment and complement.....

http://www.elearnenglishlanguage.com/blog/english-mistakes/complement-vs-compliment/

Now I know I am in no position to criticise anyone's english, but it always caught me out so I hope no one falls into the same trap. :pac:

AtomicKoala

Seeing as you mentioned Pharmacy, you're going to need to do Chemistry. Even without it as a requirement, you'd be in trouble in a health science course without having done it.

I was in the same position as you - I knew I needed to do Chemistry, and another science (to satisfy course requirements), and I wanted to do History as I found it easy for the JC and thought it'd be interesting. I ended up doing History (instead of Biology), Chemistry and Physics.

I'm in first med in UCC, and I doubt I could've caught up with the Chem content without vast amounts of work. However I just read through the Biology book over the summer and that gave me more than enough understanding for Physiology and Biochem (Biology is of little use for Anatomy, which is a very minor thing in Pharmacy anyhow). My logic for choosing Physics was that I found it easier than Biology in JC Science and that'd it be mathsy.

My opinion would be to definitely, without a shadow of a doubt, do Chem. It's a great subject - especially if you got As in JC Science and Maths (I got Bs in them), and you'll need it

I'd also say that Applied Maths would be a great option for you - Physics is useful but not a requirement for this, but they complemented each other well in my case. Biology would be a good idea to do, and has a very high A1 rate given it's one of the most common subjects (loads of average students do it unlike Physics and Chem, yet the A rate is rather high)

History was great craic in fourth year - we did Dictatorship & Democracy which most people love. However the other topics are probably less interesting. Still, the NI topic gave me a really good understanding of the Troubles which is nice. You could always do it on your own outside of school, going to class taught me nothing really, and we did little work, the only thing you need a teacher for is the project.

TL;DR: I was in the exact same position as you in TY. I chose History instead of Biology and later regretted it, but it hasn't caused me any trouble in my course (but it cost me 20+ hours of my summer learning LC Bio). Chem was great (and necessary), and while I initially disliked Physics I loved it in the end, and doing it allowed me to do Applied Maths.

Fiona G

I do all 3 and my favourite 2 are Biology and Physics. Chemistry for me has the biggest workload and is the least interesting.

The combination that has the biggest overlap is Chemistry and Physics. Chemistry and Biology don't really overlap in content as such but a knowledge of Chemistry will make topics such as photosynthesis in Biology easier to get your head around.

I would definitely take Biology regardless; it's the easiest to get a high grade in (imo) and it's v interesting. Choosing between Chemistry and Physics depends on personal preference really, try watching some videos on an introduction to each subject and see which appeals to you most :-)

spurious

In case statistics mean anything to anyone.

% of candidates achieving A or B or C grades:

Physics
2012 74.5%
2013 73.2&
2014 72.4%

Chemistry
2012 72.7%
2013 73.5%
2014 72.7%

Biology
2012 71.1%
2013 69.8%
2014 69.2%

EoghanIRL

Yeah from what I heard physics was marked hard last year and had a high fail rate , could have been one of the highest if I remember correctly .

Thing about biology and chemistry is you can wrote learn answers but in my opinion in physics you need to apply your knowledge to solve problems . Biology and chemistry are the safer choices .

Mr Rhode Island Red

Hate to drag up an old thread, but for anybody who cares, I've decided (for now) to go with all three: Biology, Chemistry and Physics

Just thinking to myself earlier this week, I thought: "Man, I loved science for the JC and science in general. People are always advising us to do subjects we like and enjoy. So why not? It's not locking me out of any other branches of study in college (business etc.) and it should make my Leaving Cert a bit more enjoyable sufferable"

I love music, playing it and listening to it and whatnot, but hated it as a subject and found it a bore to study. So cross that.

I love history, but even at JC there was a lot of learning and essay writing involved and from what I've read it doesn't get any better at LC.

So...Biology, Chemistry, Physics, French...whaddayathink?

spurious

Mr Rhode Island Red wrote: »

So...Biology, Chemistry, Physics, French...whaddayathink?

No reason why not.
You can also keep your interest in Music and History as hobbies.

miissjuly

stay away from history if you don't like essay writing and i'd advise to pick all 3 sciences, if not then definitely Biology and Chemistry or Physics and Chemistry. My friend did both Biology and Physics once she was studying plant responses then about circuits both are really different

AtomicKoala

Mr Rhode Island Red wrote: »

Hate to drag up an old thread, but for anybody who cares

It's your thread, and it's hardly old :pac: And I do care! You had the same dilemma as me.

Mr Rhode Island Red wrote: »

I love history, but even at JC there was a lot of learning and essay writing involved and from what I've read it doesn't get any better at LC.

Oh god it's pretty much entirely essays for the LC - still, if you're smart and assiduous it's very much a doable A1. Not much use going to class for three years of it, it's the studying at home that matters really, if you tend to form your own opinions and whatnot (and you seem well read and intelligent, so I'm guessing you do)

The only thing is you'd need to do a project, preferably in 5th year, if you want to sit the exam without taking the class.

Mr Rhode Island Red wrote: »

So...Biology, Chemistry, Physics, French...whaddayathink?

I say good choice! French is something I'd advise you to start working at as soon as possible, you can't cram it. If you're not too worried about scraping an A1, you can leave the sciences slide somewhat, til the LC

Katie97123

Biology is easy enough! Mainly rote learning and I find it pretty intersting! Would defo go with that! Personally I hate chemistry, it's really hard and there is no crossover between the two! Also don't base them off what you did for junior cert because it is completely different!

libra33

If you have the choice do all three! If not I would highly advise doing chemistry first of all. It is the science that will benefit you the most for the future. To add to that it is a really enjoyable subject. I will admit it is tough but if you have an interest in science you will love it. Biology is relatively easy if you study! Note the last part ... If you study for biology you will ace the exam. The problem with biology though is that the course is HUGE

ABCE

I do those 7 as well along with Applied Maths. Though many people would advise not doing all 3 sciences, it's really not that tough once you put your mind to it and do the required study(which isn't extreme). I'd say for me Biology is the easiest. Basically just learning off loads of definitions and understanding a few concepts. Chemisty's probably the hardest of the 3 but it's still very much manageable. Our teacher was saying that they had extended the course slightly so that we would need to go a tad bit faster than his normal teaching speed, but promised we would finish the course next year before the mocks.

AulBiddy

I do biology and chemistry. Biology's pretty much easy to learn BUT there is a lot to learn 42 chapters if I'm not mistaken but a lot of them overlap especially in unit 2 and unit 3.
What I find with chemistry is that you have to study with exam papers. There's a lot of extra material in the book you can leave out sometimes and making your own notes and using revision books is a lot easier than using a textbook.
Not too sure about physics, judging by the posts above it seems a bit more mathsy than biology or chemistry.