Mastering breathing with freestyle

Tigerandahalf

I have been taking lessons for around 18 months. I am still finding it difficult to get the breathing. I get half way down a 25m pool and then I just can't get enough air in. I was breathing every 2 strokes but that was affecting my right hand stroke. I breathe over my left shoulder. As a result my right arm was too straight. So now I am trying to breathe bilaterally so my stoke improves.
Is there anything I can do to help me. I have started using the pull bouy to give me some flotation so I can concentrate on the breathing. I find I do not get enough air in when I breathe in.
I am conscious to breathe out under the water.

MojoMaker

The problem isn't the breathing itself, it's the requirement for oxygen your body is making during the swimming stroke. if I was to speculate without evidence I would say the timing of your kick is off and your legs are doing too much work to keep you afloat and this is driving a huge oxygen requirement which is making you breathless and making you feel like you can't get enough oxygen in.

This feeling largely subsides if you isolate your legs using a pull buoy which is why you feel much more relaxed. if you are still getting breathless using the pull buoy then your arm cadence may be too high - try scaling it right back to a relaxed slow stroke (say 50 strokes per minute) and see what effect it has on your oxygen requirement.

Tigerandahalf

Would I have the pull buoy between my upper thighs?
I do that but still find I flick my legs a bit to stay afloat.
I do find it easier to swim so maybe I should stick with the pull buoy for a bit.

AngryHippie

It's a bit of a cheat, but using some pool fins can be a real benefit, as it will reduce the "work" your legs are having to do to maintain your core stability.
It also forces you to time your kick correctly as it will feel completely wrong if they are out of sync.

It has the added bonus of improving kick strength and leg performance, which is of real benefit in the long run. Its always a drag when you take them off again, but they are definitely a powerful tool.

Catch-up drill and a some high elbow drill with the fins is also very beneficial. Both drills done correctly will assist.

MojoMaker

lash the pull buoy just under your crotch and let the legs go completely quiet - no flutters whatsoever. A decent sized wedge buoy means you ar*e will never sink, trust in it.

Although technically a cheat, it has enormous value to a developing swimmer to understand what body alignment and positioning is supposed to feel like. If it teaches you nothing else but bilateral breathing it will have been a great investment.

If you ever plan to swim in a wetsuit it's like having an all-over pull buoy strapped on permanently

kneejerk

I suspect it is to do with breathing out under the water.
The chances are you’re trying to breathe out & in when you lift your head and as such don't have time to take in a decent breath.
A good way to reinforce is learning to sink to before your swim.

You’ll find it all here http://www.swimsmooth.com/exhalation.html

Hope it helps

Tigerandahalf

Well I have tried some of the above. I hadn't been in the pool for various reasons for over a week and the absence seems to have put me back. I felt like I was sinking in the water and sort of swimming under the water instead of floating on it. I think my rotation isn't good enough. I watch a few people in the pool and the good ones are barely raising their head to the side, breathing in the pocket. This is something I need to learn. I am going well on the backstroke and flying with the breaststroke. I think I do need to slow down my stroke.
I sometimes find my swimming shorts constrict my leg movement and wonder whether I would be better with a more streamlined swim shorts.
I will probably continue with the pull buoy and try to rotate more. I would love to film my swimstroke but I don't think that is an option in pools. If things don't improve I might have to consider private lessons.

AngryHippie

Working on the rotation can be helpful, but if this is the direction you are going, I would definitely recommend the pool fins. That shoulder roll needs a balancing kick to control it, and if you are having trouble rolling those shoulders, then lower body stability and core strength are usually the culprits.

Work on the kick when doing your backstroke work, the shoulder roll is more or less the same, with the difference being your face looks more or less straight up all of the time.

work on increasing the shoulder roll using your leg kick timing and arm-pull in co-ordination. When that is working in backstroke, flip over and give it a try in freestyle. Fins make this much easier to get feedback for the correct timing, as it's as obvious as dogs balls when you try and roll your shoulders "against" your kick momentum. (you will have to twist your whole back to lift the shoulder)

stick with it, and don't be afraid to ask an instructor to do a quick stroke analysis, it is much easier to pinpoint problems when you can see the swimmer.

Mr_Roger_Bongos

Hi all,

Don't want to start another thread, but i've recently started swimming again and have similar breathing issues.

Kneejerk - Thanks for linking the swim smooth site - On Exhalation - Should we be breathing slowly out through our nose & mouth, or just the mouth?

Thanks!

Tigerandahalf

Much better this week. I managed to get to the pool 3 times. I can now go down halfway in the 25m pool and breathe on both sides. As I am only breathing every 3 strokes one failed attempt to get air leaves me in trouble but I will stick with the bilateral breathing as it is helping my stroke. The pull buoy is making a difference as I am finding I rotate more. I think my leg kick is very weak as a kick drill with the float leaves me knackered and at times going forward very little. Lots to work. Are some people just quick to master the breathing or is it a slow process for everyone?

MojoMaker

Breathing is the easy bit! It's just "turn head sideways, take breath, exhale into water" - rinse & repeat.

The hard bit is mastering the correct body position in the water such that the activity above becomes as simple as it's described above, and not about lifting the head, breaking the streamline, dropping the legs, and thereby starting to fight with the water just to take in a breath. When newcomers complain that "breathing is too hard" what they really mean is "I'm not swimming in the right horizontal alignment to make breathing as simple as in hale & exhale".

No magic bullet for this unfortunately. The pullbuoy training should give you an idea of what it should feel like when it comes together, but the two dominant reasons why breathing becomes "difficult" are (1) head position is too high, looking forward rather than down, and back of body drops to compensate (think see-saw) - then invariably a fight with the water ensues and precious energy is wasted trying to snatch a breath.....and (2) timing of kick is off and you are working against your arms which causes huge stress on the body position and the energy expenditure - this is why the pull buoy work feels easier.

Consider a lesson with a coach devoted to kick timing and watch the result when you crack it - you'll be amazed. All the young kids in the swim academies have it, and look like they're doing no work at all - a$$ gliding on the water, legs barely moving, arms leisurely cycling through an efficient pattern - and racking up 1:20 100m splits without shifting out of 1st gear.

jank

Why not try to breathe every 2 strokes rather then the more traditional 3 strokes that is bilateral. Many of the swim coaches here are have changed their tune regarding this for swim squads and tri-training. I suppose it depends what your goal is. If you want to swim long distances of say 2km in one go for a half iron man, then breathing every two is the way to go. If you just want to swim 400m fast then bilateral may be better.
Once coach who I trained with and who was been coaching for 20+ years changed his mind over this a few years ago. He found himself in first place in many ocean swims only for him to tire on the second Km while others over took him. He changed to breathing every two and now regularly places. He was like 'My god, i know nothing and I'm a swim coach!"

Breathing every two will enable you to get more air, swim over long distances, get your stroke more nailed down and increase confidence. Then when you can swim better, you can chop and change between the two. In fact any decent coach will have you change it up between breathing every two to up to 9 strokes. Its a lung buster but it teaches you to be efficient and to relax. If I am doing a 100m or 50m sprint TT I will breathe every 5 strokes or so. If I am doing an ocean race of say 1 or 2 km, then I breather every 2.

Breathing every two worked for me when I started swimming and got me over the initial hump of being able to do laps continuously at a pace that I was comfortable with. As you get fitter and your feel for the water gets better breathing every three was like a natural step for me.

Note: breathing every two does not mean you breathe that side all the time, you change the side you breath on the return lap, so you breathe to your left on the first 50m/25m and on the return length you breath on your right. This makes sure that no one side is massively different then the other, but you will always find that one side is a little stronger, no matter who you are.

Tigerandahalf

An update.
I am having good and bad days in the pool.
Today was a bad one. I knew I was someway tired after a long cycle yesterday.
Someone in the pool told me that my head was too far down as in the water was going over my head and thus making it difficult to breathe.
When I lifted my head it was easier to breathe but then my hips were dropping and it was more difficult to get through the water. I am trying to keep the water just above my goggles but when I view technique videos on youtube they are advising to have your eyes facing down. It is such a fine line.
I saw a video that said your stomach should not be flat in the water and your whole body should be rotating from side to side.
I think I just have to write off today as a bad day. I have had a day like this before and I came back the next day much better.

PS I invested in a set of fins and am using them for kick drills. I do about 100m with them and I can go through the water fairly well with my arms on the board.
I probably should use the fins while doing the front crawl but I am afraid I won't thread the water in the fins (in case I have to stop in the deep end). I have tried them in the deep end and it is easier to thread without them.

AngryHippie

Tigerandahalf,

Feedback can be a good and a bad thing. An instructor will usually give you feedback on the single biggest aspect of your stroke that will help you improve at any given time, and allow you to work on that. Focusing on a single point or teaching point like that will allow you to concentrate and get it right.

Having a point on something as fundamental as body position will change your entire stroke, you will notice everything else changing and will over-think it. That is why:

Someone in the pool told me that my head was too far down

turned into

then my hips were dropping

they are advising to have your eyes facing down

that said your stomach should not be flat in the water and your whole body should be rotating from side to side.

You are over-thinking it.
The water should be between your goggles and your hairline (Assuming that you have a hairline) You should normally look at an angle of 45 degrees down and forwards except when breathing. Your torso should rotate with the shoulders, but the hips should be a very slight roll, with the leg kick balancing the tendency of the hips to roll.

Concentrate on the head/eye position, allow your stroke to adjust over a few sessions (it will). Use the fins for this work, slow your arm stroke rate down and do some high elbow drills which will allow you to concentrate on the body position.
The High elbow drill also forces the shoulder roll to occur naturally and the fins will balance the hips automatically just from keeping a regular flutter kick.
Focus on one thing at a time. When you are confident the head/body position is where you want it, allow yourself to focus on the other elements one at a time.(Are my shoulders rolling enough, smoothly, am I over-rotating[hand will cross centerline]. Are my hips over-rotating [Am I finding myself kicking on my side] etc).
One thing at a time and you will claw your way through it. Stroke adjustment takes quite a while to pattern and get used to. You may have to focus on something for weeks at a time, so to avoid having to revisit, stick to the order in which it is taught

1. Body Position
2. Legs
3. Arms
4. Breathing
5. Timing

It is taught and learned in this order so that the changes and patterns from one will carry into the next without having to "undo" any learning work.

Once all of those are in place, you go back and make any tweaks in the same order. So if you are altering your body position, it will naturally have an impact on your legs, arms, breathing and timing. That is why so much time gets spent on BP and Leg work in beginner lessons. Getting them right saves lots of work in the long run.

Slow it down and use your drills. One point at a time and get an instructor/coach to do a quick stroke analysis for you.

Tigerandahalf

An update

Thanks for the replies on this.
I have made decent enough progress over the last while. I have noticed when my legs are tired from running my swimming suffers.
2 weeks ago I managed to do 8 lengths of a 25m pool stopping at each end. I was breathing every 2 strokes but swapped sides on the return. It was funny as the previous time in the pool was a disaster and I felt like giving up. I rested for a couple of days and it made a difference.
I had a 10 mile race last sunday week and it took a lot out of my legs. My thighs were sore all last week so it was mostly rest except for a few walks. This week I am getting back at it. I have been getting bits of colds on and off. The changeable weather isn't helping. So it is a balance between resting and trying to get stuck into it.
One thing I need to improve on is my rolling. I am trying to get my elbows high when coming out of the water and this seems to increase the roll. Only downside is that you tend to cross with the arms at the front.
I have tried the fins for the frontcrawl and I was like a motorboat going down through the pool. When I took them off I nearly sank. Only downside to them is I find it hard to thread the water in the deep end with them.
Overall I am making slow progress. I have a few mediocre days and then seem to have a good day. I am hoping that I can get a good technique as I go forward so I won't have to relearn my stroke further down the line.