Computer Science in L.C Applied Maths?

LostBoy101

Just read this interesting piece from the Irish Times http://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/plan-for-leaving-cert-computer-science-module-tokenistic-1.2058047

I feel it would be a silly move to implement Computer Science into Applied Maths as CS itself has big enough material for a LC subject. I reckon the department is trying to get people to take up Applied Maths as it's shown recently the numbers have fallen in Applied Maths.

So yeah, do you think Computer Science should be implemented under Applied Maths? I surely don't see the point. As a subject itself, of course it should be brought it in. However it won't happen as the department of education is full of old people who haven't got the level of competence to implement it.

jimgoose

This thread title is very misleading. I thought it about using the likes of an IBM 3090 during Leaving Cert. exams. Not many people know that I am single-handedly responsible for the old rule-of-thumb stating that any calculator can be used provided it a) doesn't dim the lights when powered up and b) does not IPL.

EDIT: Ah, that's better. No, I don't think Computer Science should or could be rolled into LC Applied Maths. Youngsters have plenty to be doing with Applied Maths as it is.

LostBoy101

jimgoose wrote: »

This thread title is very misleading. I thought it about using the likes of an IBM 3090 during Leaving Cert. exams. Not many people know that I am single-handedly responsible for the old rule-of-thumb stating that any calculator can be used provided it a) doesn't dim the lights when powered up and b) does not IPL.

Haha that's what happens I type too fast >.<

Menas

Computer science been lobbed in with Applied maths is a bit like lobbing Latin in with English.

thelad95

I don't think the Applied Maths syllabus has changed once since before man walked on the moon. You can't just lob computer science in with it.

smash

How many maths teachers would know enough about computer science to teach it?

LostBoy101

smash wrote: »

How many maths teachers would know enough about computer science to teach it?

I would have a good guess, none :P

CrabRevolution

thelad95 wrote: »

I don't think the Applied Maths syllabus has changed once since before man walked on the moon. You can't just lob computer science in with it.

Same with engineering. Some of the stuff taught (like manual CNC lathe codes) have long been outdone by computerised lathes. No harm in having a back up I suppose.

Also to be fair, the "laws" of applied maths probably havent changed much since the time of Newton and Galileo. Things still move in the same paths with the same forces acting on them, unless gravity has weakened since or something....

Duff

So fúcking glad I did my LC years ago.

Dont call me Shirley

Can't believe we don't teach programming/computer science at 2nd level in Ireland, complete madness.

VinLieger

Knowledge economy me arse, its a token gesture so they can point and say "look we do teach computers" in schools nothing more.

The simple fact is we need compulsory courses in the junior cycle and then if students wish to continue they can choose to do the subject for the leaving cert.

This half assed proposal is nowhere near enough.

LostBoy101

VinLieger wrote: »

Knowledge economy me arse, its a token gesture so they can point and say "look we do teach computers" in schools nothing more.

The simple fact is we need compulsory courses in the junior cycle and then if students wish to continue they can choose to do the subject for the leaving cert.

This half assed proposal is nowhere near enough.

If the department of education wasn't full of old people hanging us back we would have an effective system in place. I remember Paddy Cosgrave pointing out that old people are holding us back when it comes to education.

Of course, trying to throw in Computer Science for the sake of it isn't good enough but if we do it right, then rewards are there.

siblers

I'm doing a 4 year course in computer science, I'm not sure how you add it to one subject for the leaving :pac:

Peregrine

The syllabus hasn't been changed since the 60s and while it's due for a change, I was thinking this could be too radical.

But then again, looking at the proposal on pages 18 and 19, it seems that if the students do the mechanics option along with the core topics, they'll be doing a similar course to what's there now with more emphasis on mathematics rather than mechanics.

Not sure how they're going to train teachers to teach game theory and programming but since they're only options, over time, it could be managed. I don't know if there's any point in squeezing them into Applied Maths though.

http://www.ncca.ie/en/file/post_primary/BP-Applied-Maths_Eng.pdf

A number of topics, including calculus, vectors and matrices, which were controversially dropped from the higher level Maths curriculum

Calculus dropped from HL Maths? Well done, Joe. It's not like it's your job to know about these things or anything..

CrabRevolution

Nim wrote: »

The syllabus hasn't been changed since the 60s and while it's due for a change, I was thinking this could be too radical.

But then again, looking at the proposal on pages 18 and 19, it seems that if the students do the mechanics option along with the core topics, they'll be doing a similar course to what's there now with more emphasis on mathematics rather than mechanics.

Not sure how they're going to train teachers to teach game theory and programming but since they're only options, over time, it could be managed. I don't know if there's any point in squeezing them into Applied Maths though.

http://www.ncca.ie/en/file/post_primary/BP-Applied-Maths_Eng.pdf





Calculus dropped from HL Maths? Well done, Joe. It's not like it's your job to know about these things or anything..

Found it hard to believe they just chopped calculus from HL maths considering they even study it at OL. Looked at your link and it only says "elements of calculus have been removed", which still isnt great, but not really the equivalent of dropping calculus from the curriculum.

Peregrine

CrabRevolution wrote: »

Found it hard to believe they just chopped calculus from HL maths considering they even study it at OL. Looked at your link and it only says "elements of calculus have been removed", which still isnt great, but not really the equivalent of dropping calculus from the curriculum.

Yeah, it's still in the curriculum. It's one of the five strands of Project Maths. A lot of integration was removed. Differentiation and its applications was left untouched, I think. Applied Maths had to stop asking questions that involve integration by substitution because it's not taught in Project Maths.

Grayson

smash wrote: »

How many maths teachers would know enough about computer science to teach it?

Probably more than the number of history or english teachers who could.
They should have dedicated CS teachers but I think they are looking at implementing it in a way that doesn't involve hiring a new teacher for every school. On the plus side most maths teachers that have graduated in the last 10 years probably have some limited experience.

siblers wrote: »

I'm doing a 4 year course in computer science, I'm not sure how you add it to one subject for the leaving :pac:

It'd be a chunk of your first year course spread out over 2 years. That's what first year maths is in most colleges. The same with physics and chemistry. Probably very heavy in java. (Edit: I misread. I thought you meant as a separate subject)

Grayson

Nim wrote: »

Not sure how they're going to train teachers to teach game theory and programming but since they're only options, over time, it could be managed. I don't know if there's any point in squeezing them into Applied Maths though.

It just won't be taught or a student will do it in their spare time. To be fair it's one paper and it'd be one question. It'd be a relatively small part of the course and I think any kid that's into programming would probably know the programming part already.
Game theory would probably be a basic probability module.