Forced CLI

BenEadir

Hi,

I am a one man business. I have a UPC SME landline based in my house which diverts to an answering service who either patch the call through to me or take a message and I call the person back.

I work from a small shared office but don't have a dedicated landline so I end up making all my calls from my Android mobile which is fine from a cost perspective as I have an all you can eat type plan but rather than my mobile number showing to the recipient I'd prefer if my business landline number was presented.

Is this possible? Are there any Android apps which alter the outbound CLI to a pre determined number? I know of some apps which can switch off CLI so your number shows as Private but that's worse than showing my mobile number in my opinion.

Cheers in advance for any suggestions.

ED E

Mr G will jump in here with a full answer soon no doubt, but simply put not with UPC. UPCs numbers are VOIP but you cant add your own clients. If you get a geographic number(076-) with a traditional VOIP provider you can then setup phones so that it rings in the house, on your mobile and in the shared space office if you like too.

BenEadir

Thanks Ed, I look forward to getting the definitive situation from Mr. G.

If I can't force CLI from my mobile I guess something like http://www.vodafone.ie/small-business/phones-plans/one-net-express might be the next best option?

Mr. G

BenEadir wrote: »

Hi,

I am a one man business. I have a UPC SME landline based in my house which diverts to an answering service who either patch the call through to me or take a message and I call the person back.

I work from a small shared office but don't have a dedicated landline so I end up making all my calls from my Android mobile which is fine from a cost perspective as I have an all you can eat type plan but rather than my mobile number showing to the recipient I'd prefer if my business landline number was presented.

Is this possible? Are there any Android apps which alter the outbound CLI to a pre determined number? I know of some apps which can switch off CLI so your number shows as Private but that's worse than showing my mobile number in my opinion.

Cheers in advance for any suggestions.

Nearly all Irish VoIP providers can change your outgoing CLI to any number you own once you are able to prove to them you own that number, i.e. with a bill in your name from UPC. In this case, you can actually call out through VoIP on your Android phone and have it as the UPC number, and receive calls normally as you did before with your answering service.

I know that both Blueface and Goldfish allow you to do this if you ask them by email and you don't need to port your number. The whole process is quick once they have proof, they just type in your UPC number in the CLI and that's it.

In order to manipulate your CLI you will need to make calls out through VoIP (obviously). Note that Blueface have a 12 month contract but Goldfish do not.

Android have an inbuilt "Internet calling" software on the phone which will allow you to choose when you make a call whether you would like to make it over the cell network or via internet. This gives you the best of both worlds. Vodafone are known to block VoIP on some packages, so double check this. Goldfish work on port 8060 which may not be blocked. None of the other networks block VoIP as far as I'm aware.

BenEadir wrote: »

Thanks Ed, I look forward to getting the definitive situation from Mr. G.

If I can't force CLI from my mobile I guess something like http://www.vodafone.ie/small-business/phones-plans/one-net-express might be the next best option?

More info on OneNet here. You need a minimum of 3 mobiles and 1 landline, or 2 landlines and 2 mobiles on the account for OneNet Express I'm afraid.

As Ed rightly said, you could make the move to VoIP entirely and have an IP Phone in your shared office, one at home and one on your phone. All connected to your main DID, along with the answering service, and you could hunt the phones in whatever way you choose. I suppose the question here is do you want to make the move to VoIP completely or just change your outbound number on your mobile to your UPC number? If it's the latter then:

1) Set up 1 line account with an Irish VoIP provider. List here. Goldfish may be your best bet.
2) Email a copy of your UPC bill to that provider and ask them to change your CLI to that number on the bill.
3) Configure your Android phone to make calls through this provider. Settings > Call > Under 'Internet Call Settings', select Accounts > Add Account. Go back and under 'Use Internet calling' select 'Ask for each call' or whatever you prefer.
4) Calls made out through internet calling will be charged by your VoIP provider (your existing mobile deal will not apply to these rates). Inbound calls are not affected.

If you want to port your UPC number to that provider in the future and have an IP phone in the office and at home, that option is always open by adding sip accounts to that voip account.

Let me know if you have any more questions and how you get on.

BenEadir

Mr. G wrote: »

Nearly all Irish VoIP providers can change your outgoing CLI to any number you own once you are able to prove to them you own that number, i.e. with a bill in your name from UPC. In this case, you can actually call out through VoIP on your Android phone and have it as the UPC number, and receive calls normally as you did before with your answering service.

I know that both Blueface and Goldfish allow you to do this if you ask them by email and you don't need to port your number. The whole process is quick once they have proof, they just type in your UPC number in the CLI and that's it.

In order to manipulate your CLI you will need to make calls out through VoIP (obviously). Note that Blueface have a 12 month contract but Goldfish do not.

Android have an inbuilt "Internet calling" software on the phone which will allow you to choose when you make a call whether you would like to make it over the cell network or via internet. This gives you the best of both worlds. Vodafone are known to block VoIP on some packages, so double check this. Goldfish work on port 8060 which may not be blocked. None of the other networks block VoIP as far as I'm aware.



More info on OneNet here. You need a minimum of 3 mobiles and 1 landline, or 2 landlines and 2 mobiles on the account for OneNet Express I'm afraid.

As Ed rightly said, you could make the move to VoIP entirely and have an IP Phone in your shared office, one at home and one on your phone. All connected to your main DID, along with the answering service, and you could hunt the phones in whatever way you choose. I suppose the question here is do you want to make the move to VoIP completely or just change your outbound number on your mobile to your UPC number? If it's the latter then:

1) Set up 1 line account with an Irish VoIP provider. List here. Goldfish may be your best bet.
2) Email a copy of your UPC bill to that provider and ask them to change your CLI to that number on the bill.
3) Configure your Android phone to make calls through this provider. Settings > Call > Under 'Internet Call Settings', select Accounts > Add Account. Go back and under 'Use Internet calling' select 'Ask for each call' or whatever you prefer.
4) Calls made out through internet calling will be charged by your VoIP provider (your existing mobile deal will not apply to these rates). Inbound calls are not affected.

If you want to port your UPC number to that provider in the future and have an IP phone in the office and at home, that option is always open by adding sip accounts to that voip account.

Let me know if you have any more questions and how you get on.

That's tremendous info Mr G, very much appreciated. I already have a business account with Goldfish and have a spare 01 number on the account I rarely use so that could all work perfectly.

One more question if you don't mind.

If I install 3CX http://www.3cx.com/voip/softphone on my PC and use this USB VOIP handset http://www.adverts.ie/7092129 (Compliant Standards: C-Tick Class B , CISPR 22 , EN 60950-1 , EN55022 Class B , EN55024 Class B , FCC Part 15 B , GOST , ICES-003 Class B , IEC 60950-1 , MIC Class B , UL 60950-1 , VCCI Class B ITE) would it work over a Vodafone High Speed 3G mobile broadband router connection? My office is close to a Vodafone mast so I generally have 4-5 bars signal strength and when I speed test it I get between 3mb and 8mb download speed and 0.5mb and 1mb upload speed. If this isn't sufficient I would consider upgrading to their latest 4G product (20GB for €25 a month) if that would provide the reliability I need for solid outbound VOIP calls.

BTW, if there is another handset you'd recommend please let me know, I'm only looking at the Polycom becuase it's cheap and gets great reviews on Amazon - http://www.amazon.com/Polycom-Desktop-Microsoft-Office-Communication/dp/B002XSY6HK/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1420791715&sr=8-1&keywords=Polycom+CX300+Desktop+Phone

Cheers.

Mr. G

BenEadir wrote: »

That's tremendous info Mr G, very much appreciated. I already have a business account with Goldfish and have a spare 01 number on the account I rarely use so that could all work perfectly.

One more question if you don't mind.

If I install 3CX http://www.3cx.com/voip/softphone on my PC and use this USB VOIP handset http://www.adverts.ie/7092129 (Compliant Standards: C-Tick Class B , CISPR 22 , EN 60950-1 , EN55022 Class B , EN55024 Class B , FCC Part 15 B , GOST , ICES-003 Class B , IEC 60950-1 , MIC Class B , UL 60950-1 , VCCI Class B ITE) would it work over a Vodafone High Speed 3G mobile broadband router connection? My office is close to a Vodafone mast so I generally have 4-5 bars signal strength and when I speed test it I get between 3mb and 8mb download speed and 0.5mb and 1mb upload speed. If this isn't sufficient I would consider upgrading to their latest 4G product (20GB for €25 a month) if that would provide the reliability I need for solid outbound VOIP calls.

BTW, if there is another handset you'd recommend please let me know, I'm only looking at the Polycom becuase it's cheap and gets great reviews on Amazon - http://www.amazon.com/Polycom-Desktop-Microsoft-Office-Communication/dp/B002XSY6HK/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1420791715&sr=8-1&keywords=Polycom+CX300+Desktop+Phone

Cheers.

No it won't unfortunately. Vodafone don't permit VoIP unless you have a supported plan for VoIP. See here.
They are the only network that block VoIP as far as I know. This applies to mobile / mobile broadband but not their fibre or ADSL broadband service.

3G may be suitable depending on ping and download/upload speeds. As a general rule you should have 100ms ping, 100kbps download and 100kbps upload. As VoIP is real time, this is crucial - anything less than that at any stage and you will have call quality issues. You have the option of using G729 codec instead of G711 (regular), G729 will sound like a mobile call and uses less bandwidth.

For a business, I'd recommend 4G if you want good call quality with G711. 3G can be dodge at times, especially if there are poor signal or high demand, 4G will be a lot more reliable.

If you want a phone that just works and is easy to configure, stay clear of Polycom. I'd recommend Yealink, or if not, Cisco.

If you're going to spend that much on an IP Phone, then I'd this instead:
http://www.adverts.ie/phone-fax/2x-yealink-t22p-sip-handset-for-voip/6779341

You can get phones for cheaper of course, the below Grandstream phone is alright:
http://www.goldfish.ie/7020-97523/all/1/Grandstream-GXP1400.aspx

Hope this helps.

BenEadir

Mr. G wrote: »

No it won't unfortunately. Vodafone don't permit VoIP unless you have a supported plan for VoIP. See here.
They are the only network that block VoIP as far as I know. This applies to mobile / mobile broadband but not their fibre or ADSL broadband service.

Damm, I just can't catch a break with this

So if I use the VF Broadband I currently have on Monday to make a Skype call and it is successful could I take it that VOIP isn't blocked on my device/plan? Especially if I use my www.privateinternetaccess.com VPN See the last paragraph of this rather elegant rant - https://community.vodafone.ie/t5/Mobile-Broadband/VoIP-P2P-Data-issue-and-the-10GB-Limit-Warning-a-LONG-RANT-33/td-p/65641

Mr. G wrote: »

3G may be suitable depending on ping and download/upload speeds. As a general rule you should have 100ms ping, 100kbps download and 100kbps upload. As VoIP is real time, this is crucial - anything less than that at any stage and you will have call quality issues. You have the option of using G729 codec instead of G711 (regular), G729 will sound like a mobile call and uses less bandwidth.

For a business, I'd recommend 4G if you want good call quality with G711. 3G can be dodge at times, especially if there are poor signal or high demand, 4G will be a lot more reliable.

I'll try 3G (with VPN) and if that doesn't work I'll upgrade to 4G, possibly on the Three network as my phone is with Three.

Mr. G wrote: »

If you want a phone that just works and is easy to configure, stay clear of Polycom. I'd recommend Yealink, or if not, Cisco.

If you're going to spend that much on an IP Phone, then I'd this instead:
http://www.adverts.ie/phone-fax/2x-yealink-t22p-sip-handset-for-voip/6779341

Thanks, if that's a USB VOIP phone I might see if I can get it for a bit cheaper :P

Mr. G wrote: »

You can get phones for cheaper of course, the below Grandstream phone is alright:
http://www.goldfish.ie/7020-97523/all/1/Grandstream-GXP1400.aspx

Is that a USB VOIP phone?

Mr. G wrote: »

Hope this helps.

It sure does Mr G, you are/have been a big help.

This VOIP lark is a steep learning curve for me but I'll get there!!

Johnboy1951

Mr. G wrote:

Vodafone don't permit VoIP unless you have a supported plan for VoIP

In what way do they block it, do you know?

Ports can be changed for SIP VOIP if that is how they manage it.

Mr. G

BenEadir wrote: »

Damm, I just can't catch a break with this

So if I use the VF Broadband I currently have on Monday to make a Skype call and it is successful could I take it that VOIP isn't blocked on my device/plan? Especially if I use my www.privateinternetaccess.com VPN See the last paragraph of this rather elegant rant - https://community.vodafone.ie/t5/Mobile-Broadband/VoIP-P2P-Data-issue-and-the-10GB-Limit-Warning-a-LONG-RANT-33/td-p/65641

I'll try 3G (with VPN) and if that doesn't work I'll upgrade to 4G, possibly on the Three network as my phone is with Three.

Thanks, if that's a USB VOIP phone I might see if I can get it for a bit cheaper :P

Is that a USB VOIP phone?



It sure does Mr G, you are/have been a big help.

This VOIP lark is a steep learning curve for me but I'll get there!!

VF mobile broadband is blocking voip but not their VDSL / ADSL broadband. You will need to test Goldfish to be 100% certain as they use port 8060 which is not the regular SIP port of 5060.

The call quality with 3G and a VPN wouldn't be great. In fact, there would be a lot of latency and I wouldn't favour it.

You would be better off with Three or another network and connecting directly rather than through VPNs. Just for the record, a VPN will allow you to make VoIP calls successfully but it adds latency to the traffic and wouldn't be ideal.

That's not a usb phone. Are you looking for a headset for a softphone?

Mr. G

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

In what way do they block it, do you know?

Ports can be changed for SIP VOIP if that is how they manage it.

Afaik, according to what I'm told, they block all UDP traffic, which is what SIP uses. So ever using different ports won't make a difference.

slegs

Mr. G wrote: »

Afaik, according to what I'm told, they block all UDP traffic, which is what SIP uses.

Most VoIP solutions will allow you to connect SIP traffic on UDP, TCP or TLS (Secure TCP).

VoIP will work on Vodafone over TLS because its secure SIP messaging over TCP so you should use that if your VoIP solution allows.

Even if Vodafone were using some deep packet inspection they wouldnt be able to determine what was in the TLS packets so they couldnt block.

Mr. G

slegs wrote: »

Most VoIP solutions will allow you to connect SIP traffic on UDP, TCP or TLS (Secure TCP).

VoIP will work on Vodafone over TLS because its secure SIP messaging over TCP so you should use that if your VoIP solution allows.

Even if Vodafone were using some deep packet inspection they wouldnt be able to determine what was in the TLS packets so they couldnt block.

I asked Blueface in the past and was told that TCP and TLS weren't supported. Only UDP was.

I can't find anything on Goldfish using TCP/TLS, only UDP.

Any ideas? Providers here have been slow to bring in TLS it seems. I understand Digiweb allow encryption but haven't been confirmed on any others.

Edit: Irishvoip.com allow TLS.

slegs

Mr. G wrote: »

I asked Blueface in the past and was told that TCP and TLS weren't supported. Only UDP was.

I can't find anything on Goldfish using TCP/TLS, only UDP.

Any ideas? Providers here have been slow to bring in TLS it seems. I understand Digiweb allow encryption but haven't been confirmed on any others.

TLS should become more and more supported over time as its becoming the important standard for secure VoIP.

Snip

BenEadir

Mr. G wrote: »

That's not a usb phone. Are you looking for a headset for a softphone?

No, I'm looking for a USB Deskphone I can plug into my Win 8.1 PC which will work with the 3CX (or similar) VOIP softphone client, if that's the correct terminology.

If 3G VF via VPN doesn't work or has too much latency I'll try Slegs service with my existing VF setup and if that doesn't work I'll look into getting a 4G mobile broadband solution from Three.

Cheers.

DigitelIP

If you change your APN on Android from *.vodafone .ie (usually live.vodafone .ie) to hs.vodafone .ie your phone will re register and you may use VoIP/SIP with your phone.

Digitel

BenEadir

DigitelIP wrote: »

If you change your APN on Android from *.vodafone .ie (usually live.vodafone .ie) to hs.vodafone .ie your phone will re register and you may use VoIP/SIP with your phone.

Digitel

I think my broadband contract stipulates I must use the Live APN rather than the HS APN. I'll check it out though.

Mr. G

Mod: I have deleted/partially snipped posts & infracted posters who were blatantly advertising their businesses. Please email sales@boards.ie if you wish to advertise. It's nothing personal and I know business is difficult in these times, but a line has to be drawn in the sand somewhere.

Thanks.

Mr. G

BenEadir wrote: »

No, I'm looking for a USB Deskphone I can plug into my Win 8.1 PC which will work with the 3CX (or similar) VOIP softphone client, if that's the correct terminology.

If 3G VF via VPN doesn't work or has too much latency I'll try Slegs service with my existing VF setup and if that doesn't work I'll look into getting a 4G mobile broadband solution from Three.

Cheers.

This might help

http://www.voipsupply.com/voip-phones/usb?dir=asc&order=price

Honestly though- using a VPN on a 3G connection is not a reliable idea. Call quality could be brutal. If you want something that will work, especially for a business, go for another provider on a 4G connection. Believe me, it's not worth it .

BenEadir

OK, maybe I'm over complicating this.

Would it be possible for me to use a softphone client on my Android 4G phone and when I want to make a "business" call I simply use the softphone client which either displays the geographic number I got from the VOIP provider or the actual business landline number if I can prove to the VOIP provider that I own that number and they agree to change/force the CLI?

If the above is a simpler solution (bearing in mind I only require a solution which allows me to make outbound calls with the CLI forced to an 01 geographic number rather than my mobile number) is there a particular Android softphone client other than 3CX https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.tcx.sipphone12 or https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.csipsimple I should be looking at?

Kriebie

Mr. G wrote: »

No it won't unfortunately. Vodafone don't permit VoIP unless you have a supported plan for VoIP. See [??? I can not post URLs because I am supposed to be a new user ???].
They are the only network that block VoIP as far as I know. This applies to mobile / mobile broadband but not their fibre or ADSL broadband service.

Hi,

As soon as Vodafone 4G was available in my area, over a half year ago, I switched (from an O2 3G plan that I was growingly unhappy with) to their 20GB 4G plan. I tried VoIP with different providers (incl. Blueface), and different soft-phones on Android and Windows. Now I am running a Fritz-box LTE router/modem with integrated DECT and multiple SIP-registrations, and I could not be happier with how this works out for VoIP.
As far as I can see, the Vodafone 4G service is suitable and reliable for VoIP, without any add-ons.
I also have no problems with Skype (except for eating very fast through my data when making video-calls with my hi-res webcam), and other UDP-based services like Bittorrent.

Mr. G

BenEadir wrote: »

OK, maybe I'm over complicating this.

Would it be possible for me to use a softphone client on my Android 4G phone and when I want to make a "business" call I simply use the softphone client which either displays the geographic number I got from the VOIP provider or the actual business landline number if I can prove to the VOIP provider that I own that number and they agree to change/force the CLI?

Yes. And Android has it built in. It might actually work on Vodafone if the last poster is correct, even if they don't allow it on their TOS.

Kriebie

I also found this in the Vodafone FAQ:

--Bill pay-- Can I use services such as Skype with Vodafone RED?

Unless your T&C’s state that usage of such services is not permitted, our network does not actively prevent their use. However as these services are based on third party apps over which we have no control, we cannot always guarantee that these services will work end to end.

I assume that this also applies to other plans, and to SIP as well as Skype, and to actually all data traffic.
By the European net neutrality rules it should not be blocked anyway, if I don't misinterpret that.

Johnboy1951

BenEadir wrote: »

OK, maybe I'm over complicating this.

Would it be possible for me to use a softphone client on my Android 4G phone and when I want to make a "business" call I simply use the softphone client which either displays the geographic number I got from the VOIP provider or the actual business landline number if I can prove to the VOIP provider that I own that number and they agree to change/force the CLI?

If the above is a simpler solution (bearing in mind I only require a solution which allows me to make outbound calls with the CLI forced to an 01 geographic number rather than my mobile number) is there a particular Android softphone client other than 3CX https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.tcx.sipphone12 or https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.csipsimple I should be looking at?

I like this one

http://www.linphone.org/