Architect fees

machu

What would be the cost to build a 2500 sq ft bungalow from design and planning permission to complete build does it have to be a percentage of build cost or would some agree on a set fee ? I just find it hard to justify the more expensive the kitchen, bathroom, flooring, doors etc i decide to put in the higher my architects fees will be.

Gumbo

Ring 3 and see what they say. People on here will be only guessing. Some work in set fees and some work in %fees.

Bear in mind the more onerous Building Cintrol Legislation now at will drive up the cost. I wouldn't be expecting change from 20k imho.

DOCARCH

Every architect works differently/has a different approach to fees. If on a % fee, ask to exclude from the fees what I would term 'client supply items', such as the kitchen, sanitray ware, timber flooring, tiles, etc....then spend what you like. On the other hand, don't expect the architect to go shopping with you for same, but these sort of items can easily be sourced by the client.

BryanF

machu wrote: »

What would be the cost to build a 2500 sq ft bungalow from design and planning permission to complete build does it have to be a percentage of build cost or would some agree on a set fee ? I just find it hard to justify the more expensive the kitchen, bathroom, flooring, doors etc i decide to put in the higher my architects fees will be.

(Now I've never worked to a % fee )
But Kitchens, fitted furniture and finishes take plenty of time to select and specify - I've often found that stage of the project is the most time consuming, so be clear with your arch about what you expect and listen when they tell you that you'll value their opinion and time at that stage of the project. Trashing out a Kitchen design can be the trickiest design compromise imo and it's something that often lets down a house if the decision is rushed

machu

Thanks for the replies this is the kind of useful information i'm trying to receive before i approach an architect.

Dcmb1984

Any update on this matter. Im currently pricing architects and the best so far ive come across 4.8% of total build cost for full architectural service. Excluding assigned certifier which I will opt out off.

893bet

Sounds expensive! So 10k for the average 200k house?!

Dcmb1984

Thats correct. They broke it down into stages.
1% for sketch designs.
1.2% to lodge planning
1.4% for construction drawings/specs
1.2% for site supervision /etc.
I can opt in our out with them at any stage. For example just get sketch design and planning for 2.2% and walk from them after that. But thats 5500e plus vat just to get planning, on a 250k house. Sounds dear? ?

DOCARCH

Sounds cheap!

Registered architect?

Just to say that the question is a bit apples and oranges.

If you are getting a re-hashed/previously used/tweaked 'off the shelf' design, the E5.5K to planning is expensive.

If you are getting a one off/unique house design, designed to suit your specific site and your specific needs, the E5.5K to planning is cheap.

Alkers

1.2% to lodge planning seems excessive! If you get the drawings made by the, filing the planning application is doable yourself. The site supervision being the same price seems crazy, cheap for the supervision and dear for planning

Dcmb1984

Thanks for the reply guys. Yes a registered architect and its a bespoke house. Unique to me and my site. At least thats what I hope. Whos to say they wont get out plans of an house they have and tweek it to suit me. The fee that gets me the most is the fee to lodge planning. It seems excessive.

JonathonS

Bite his hand off! 4.8% is very very low. Even in the recession I could not get lower than 8% for the services you describe, and busy practices are now quoting 10%+. Check exactly what is included in the 4.8%. Also its probably 4.8% plus VAT.

I'm doing a refurb/extension currently, with a fixed price of 4.5k to cover everything from initial design discussions up to planning application, excluding planning fees. From detailed construction drawings to building supervision up to final handover will cost me 5% of build cost based on a budget of 150k. All plus VAT. I had some slightly cheaper quotes, but not by much.

DOCARCH

Simona1986 wrote: »

1.2% to lodge planning seems excessive! If you get the drawings made by the, filing the planning application is doable yourself.

Dcmb1984 wrote: »

The fee that gets me the most is the fee to lodge planning. It seems excessive.

Sketch designs for a house does not equate to/equal planning drawings for a house (and all the associated drawings required to make a planning application).

Dcmb1984

Jonathan thanks for reply. Its 4.8% plus vat. Briefly it includes site survey, sketch house designs until a final design is picked and agreed on. Preparation of everything for submitting to my local authority and submitting it to them.
I have to pay planning fees and for OS maps. Its a total of 5500e plus vat to get me up to and through the planning.

JonathonS

Dcmb1984 wrote: »

Its a total of 5500e plus vat to get me up to and through the planning.

You are going to be spending c €300k on your house, €5.5+VAT to get to a final design and then PP is very good value. But, I can't help feeling that 4.8% is so low that there has to be a catch somewhere.....

lownhard

Dcmb1984 wrote: »

Thats correct. They broke it down into stages.
1% for sketch designs.
1.2% to lodge planning
1.4% for construction drawings/specs
1.2% for site supervision /etc.
I can opt in our out with them at any stage. For example just get sketch design and planning for 2.2% and walk from them after that. But thats 5500e plus vat just to get planning, on a 250k house. Sounds dear? ?

Sounds fair if you are getting a house designed from scratch. If you want the engineer to move a couple of walls in house B in the plan book and slap a 4x4 sun room on the side, well then you might get it cheaper.

Remember this is the largest investment of your life. You will spend more time in it than anywhere else. You have to pay for expertise to get it right.

I just think it is a shame that so many Irish people do not appreciate the benefits of employing an architect. People think they know what they want but miss out on the the clever design and ideas that a good architect can bring to the table.

RORY O CONNOR

Planning application with drawings and newspaper ad can be done for about €1300 if you use a Technician.

If you employ someone to supervise/oversee the build, do any of the engineering design/specs, your payment certification for your loan drawdown, your land reg on completion and your final cert of compliance for planning permission you should be able to get this can get this for about €5000-depending on your location.

You will need a DEAP assessment for Part L and an air tightness test-shop around-can be found for about €700

So that is €7000. which is less than 2.5%! This assumes you use non VAT registered suppliers. And there is nothing sinister is someone is not VAT registered-it just means they have not passed the VAT registration income/turnover threshold of €37,500.

Make sure the guy who supervises your build has adequate professional Indemnity insurance.

cw girl

I'm looking at doing an attic conversion and received an architects quote of 6,300 (incl VAT) to include drawings, design, tender prep and construction stages. It excludes engineer sign off and PSDP.

I'm planning that the conversion will include a bedroom, bathroom, walk in wardrobe, office. Area is around 500 sq feet end to end.

My budget is about 35k incl fees (I'm hoping that I'll be able to get the HRI to reduce that bill).

Any thoughts on whether the 6,300 fees are excessive for a job of this nature? This is probably the only big job I'll ever do with the house and I want to ensure maximum use of space and optimize lighting. I also want to ensure that the stairs will take space from my hot press/hall rather than bedrooms downstairs.

Also is it safe to assume that the contractor will look after PSDP?

Any advice appreciated.

Gumbo

cw girl wrote: »

I'm looking at doing an attic conversion and received an architects quote of 6,300 (incl VAT) to include drawings, design, tender prep and construction stages. It excludes engineer sign off and PSDP.

I'm planning that the conversion will include a bedroom, bathroom, walk in wardrobe, office. Area is around 500 sq feet end to end.

My budget is about 35k incl fees (I'm hoping that I'll be able to get the HRI to reduce that bill).

Any thoughts on whether the 6,300 fees are excessive for a job of this nature? This is probably the only big job I'll ever do with the house and I want to ensure maximum use of space and optimize lighting. I also want to ensure that the stairs will take space from my hot press/hall rather than bedrooms downstairs.

Also is it safe to assume that the contractor will look after PSDP?

Any advice appreciated.

50 Sq. M attic conversion might be more than 35k. That would be my first concern. You also need to allow for an engineer and his design and inspections. PSDS and PSCS will need to be appointed and paid for. The contractor may take on the role but he will charge for it. Usually the Certifier takes on these roles in my experience.

cw girl

kceire wrote: »

50 Sq. M attic conversion might be more than 35k. That would be my first concern. You also need to allow for an engineer and his design and inspections. PSDS and PSCS will need to be appointed and paid for. The contractor may take on the role but he will charge for it. Usually the Certifier takes on these roles in my experience.

Thanks - do the architect fees sound reasonable?

bravojohnny

I suspect your budget is a bit on the low side; of course the following will have a big bearing on it:

Is the attic conversion the 3rd floor (I.e. ground, first and second); if so you have to comply with a lot more of the T.G.D. Part B? Which includes fire rated doors, upgraded fire alarm system, protected lobby etc

A structural engineer will also be required; to check if the existing ceiling joists are adequate to act as a new floor. There maybe an extra cost in upgrading same.

Where are you based (as rates in Dublin are obviously higher)?

cw girl

bravojohnny wrote: »

I suspect your budget is a bit on the low side; of course the following will have a big bearing on it:

Is the attic conversion the 3rd floor (I.e. ground, first and second); if so you have to comply with a lot more of the T.G.D. Part B? Which includes fire rated doors, upgraded fire alarm system, protected lobby etc

A structural engineer will also be required; to check if the existing ceiling joists are adequate to act as a new floor. There maybe an extra cost in upgrading same.

Where are you based (as rates in Dublin are obviously higher)?

I'm in Dublin so I'm probably looking at premium prices, it's currently a bungalow so I'll end up with two stories.

Gumbo

cw girl wrote: »

I'm in Dublin so I'm probably looking at premium prices, it's currently a bungalow so I'll end up with two stories.

Well that's a bit easier to comply with now

the norms still apply though, escapeable windows, fire detection etc
the big job here will be upgrading the floor to a structural floor I suspect.

cw girl

kceire wrote: »

Well that's a bit easier to comply with now

the norms still apply though, escapeable windows, fire detection etc
the big job here will be upgrading the floor to a structural floor I suspect.

Thanks for the info

RORY O CONNOR

PSCS only required if a project is going to take more than 30 days and there are more than 20 people working on site-unlikely on an attic conversion so don'y worry about PSCS. You contractor has an obligation under current H+S rules to keep the site safe-provide a safe working environment. As for PSDS-it goes without saying that all works need to be designed with the future safety of those using it in mind so this too should not be charged for. Its an automatic given and a statutory obligation.

DOCARCH

RORY O CONNOR wrote: »

PSCS only required if a project is going to take more than 30 days and there are more than 20 people working on site-unlikely on an attic conversion so don'y worry about PSCS.

The appointment of a PSDP and PSCS is required, if there is an identifiable risk, no matter what the duration of the job is.

So, for an attic conversion, presuming there are roof windows involved, there would be a (considerable) risk of falling from a height, in forming opes/finishing around roof windows, so I would suggest appointment of PSDP and PSCS is required (irrespective of the duration of the work).

atech

RORY O CONNOR wrote: »

PSCS only required if a project is going to take more than 30 days and there are more than 20 people working on site-unlikely on an attic conversion so don'y worry about PSCS. You contractor has an obligation under current H+S rules to keep the site safe-provide a safe working environment. As for PSDS-it goes without saying that all works need to be designed with the future safety of those using it in mind so this too should not be charged for. Its an automatic given and a statutory obligation.

20 people?

You might have a read of page 6 of this before giving any more "advise"

http://www.hsa.ie/eng/Publications_and_Forms/Publications/Construction/homeowners_guidance.pdf