TCD MSc. vs UCD MA. (Economics)

First_October

I'm a maths undergrad considering doing one of these courses next September. Would anyone be able to give me some info regarding them, like hours, quality of lecturers, difficulty level?

Also, are there any significant differences between the two courses? They are practically identical as far as I can see.

If anyone has done one of these courses, I'd love to hear your opinions on them.

Thanks in advance for any replies.

(BTW, I'm aware this has been asked before, but those threads are years old; I'm looking for more up-to-date info)

First_October

164 thread-views at this stage and nary a response to be had!

Surely there is someone here who can help me out?

noodler

First_October wrote: »

164 thread-views at this stage and nary a response to be had!

Surely there is someone here who can help me out?

Did UCD one.

All I know off hand is (or was when I did it) that in UCD there was Macro, Micro and Econometrics pre-Xmas whereas afterwards you choose options.

In TCD, you do Macro, Micro and Econometrics all year round (no optional subjects that I am aware of).

I think I would have preferred to spend a greater amount of time on Econometrics as it is one of the more employable aspects of the course. I can tell you more about UCD course based on my time there but it was 6/7 years ago!

andrew

Sorry, I had been meaning to reply to this. I'm doing the TCD Msc. part time (though the rest of the class bar one person is full time), which means I'm doing Micro and Macro this year, and a Dissertation and Econometrics next year. This is what the Msc. is like:

Structure:
As noodler said, the Msc. has 4 Modules; Micro, Macro, Econometrics, and research seminars/dissertation. Before Christmas, you do Micro I, Macro I, Econometrics I, and attend research seminars.

For Micro and Macro, there are weekly 2 hour long lectures and hour long tutorials. You’re assigned a problem set each week, the grades from which comprise 20% of your final grade. I don’t know what your background is, but for me at least these were quite a step up in terms of the amount of Mathematical precision, thinking and knowledge expected. They’re doable though, the only book you really need is Chaing and Wainwright. You also recieve a 2 week maths course before the course begins, and during semester I are expected to attend maths lectures once a week and complete a problem set for these also.

There are two parts to Micro I. The first 5 lectures are by RA Somerville. The course materials are here. He goes over undergrad Micro – consumer theory, producer theory, and a tiny bit of general equilibrium and risk, but more formally than (at least my) undergrad. For example, he goes through the properties which all demand functions must have etc. The second 4 lectures are by Tara Mitchell, who does some game theory. It doesn’t cover very many applications of game theory, but you cover a decent number of game types, up to sequential equilibrium.

Macro I isn’t split into 2 parts. We’ve had Paul Scanlon. He covers consumption (Euler equations, but in a bit more detail than undergrad), asset pricing, Tobin’s Q, and various growth models in terms of what determines their steady state, how to derive it etc. It’s more intuition-heavy than the Micro course, which has very little intuition about it - that comes with the territory.

Econometrics I – there are biweekly problem sets I think, which are apparently less challenging than the Micro and Macro problem sets. You also have to complete an Econometrics essay/project, where you take a non-time series dataset, run regressions, write about it etc.

Research Seminars – There are weekly seminars from internal and external economists which you have to attend. You must then pick two papers, and write a critique. You also have to start coming up with ideas for your dissertation and approach professors in terms of thesis supervision.

There are exams at the beginning of December for Micro, Macro and Econometrics. These account for 80% of the grade for that module. They’re less difficult than the problem sets, but you aren’t given past papers, which makes them more tricky to study for.

After Christmas, the structure is much the same. Obviously it’s only January, so I can’t speak to exactly what’s involved or how difficult it is.

For Micro II, we have Tara again for 4 lectures, covering behavioural economics and development economics. Then we have Francis O’Toole for 5(?) lectures, covering industrial organisation. The problem set structure etc. is the same.

For Macro II, we have Luca Onorante for 5 weeks and Philip Lane for 4 weeks. Luca does mostly monetary stuff I think – I missed the first lecture. Not sure exactly what Philip will be focusing on (again with the missed lecture) presumably international macro stuff.

For Econometrics, as far as I know it’s mostly time-series stuff this term. There is another Econometrics project/essay to do also, this time with a time series dataset.

For research seminars, the same again I think.

As with semester I, there are exams in each subject, in around May.
After exams, people then begin to focus on their dissertation, though by this point they will already have an idea, and advisor, and completed a good bit of reading and fleshing out of what they’ll be covering. It's due around August I think.

Anyway, that’s the course. I can’t compare it to UCD because I’ve never attended UCD nor spoken with someone about the UCD Msc. As far as I know the TCD one has a decent reputation in and of itself, independent of TCD’s reputation more generally (which is almost hilariously good sometimes. I’ve friends in America whose employers think TCD is as good as an Ivy league… :rolleyes:). As far as I know it has a reputation for being pretty mathematical, which is a good thing, especially if you want to do a Phd.

In terms of difficulty, semester 1 was about x10 more difficult for me than anything in undergrad, and easily one of the most difficult few months I've ever experienced. This is almost definitely because I'm also working full time. That said, even those doing it full time found it difficult. Msc's more generally are significantly more difficult than undergrad, and you'll have to be willing to put in a lot of time, more than you put in in final year of undergrad.

First_October

Thanks andrew for your detailed reply!

How would rate the standard of the lecturers? Are they very approachable?

Would someone coming to the course without much pure economics be at a disadvantage? I'm doing maths and I've taken a few mathematical economics modules, so I know most of Chiang and Wainwright, but would it be a good idea to go over some undergraduate economics first?

In econometrics do they do labs? If so, is it STATA or R that they use?

What are the hours like? I've heard a lot of the lectures are in long blocks.

Thanks again.

andrew

First_October wrote: »

Thanks andrew for your detailed reply!

How would rate the standard of the lecturers? Are they very approachable?

Would someone coming to the course without much pure economics be at a disadvantage? I'm doing maths and I've taken a few mathematical economics modules, so I know most of Chiang and Wainwright, but would it be a good idea to go over some undergraduate economics first?

In econometrics do they do labs? If so, is it STATA or R that they use?

What are the hours like? I've heard a lot of the lectures are in long blocks.

Thanks again.

No problemo.

All the lecturers are very approachable, as are the teaching assistants. Most will go out of their way to help you or arrange to see you if you need help. In terms of the standard - they have different styles is what I'd say. They all are of a very high standard in that they all clearly know their stuff, which is what you'd expect. But lecturing styles vary. From providing pretty detailed lecture slides and doing examples in class, to providing less detailed slides and talking around the intuition a lot, to providing no slides at all and having you furiously write notes from the blackboard.

When you say you're doing maths, do you mean you're doing a maths degree? If so, you'll be fine. There's a guy on our course whose background is in Physics and he's getting on just grand. Maybe take a look at an intro to economics textbook like Parkin, Powell and Matthews, but you don't have to.

Yep they do labs using STATA.

Hours: see attached timetable.

noodler

First_October wrote: »

Thanks andrew for your detailed reply!

How would rate the standard of the lecturers? Are they very approachable?

Would someone coming to the course without much pure economics be at a disadvantage? I'm doing maths and I've taken a few mathematical economics modules, so I know most of Chiang and Wainwright, but would it be a good idea to go over some undergraduate economics first?

In econometrics do they do labs? If so, is it STATA or R that they use?

What are the hours like? I've heard a lot of the lectures are in long blocks.

Thanks again.

It was STATA in UCD when I did it. I didn't come away with anything like the knowledge I should have. I'll put some of the blame on the course for that, labs were very poorly organised - we would be taking classes in a random computer room with other casual browsers etc and it all seemed haphazard. On the other hand, I hadn't done metrics in undergrad (its not a requirement) so I was obviously starting behind a good few of my classmates.

pumpkin4life

I did the MSc in TCD as well.

Ultimately it depends what you're going for. If you want to be an economist and have a real passion for the subject or are batting for a P.H.D, then yeah it's a great course, but otherwise, I might consider avoiding it. The most useful part in terms of employment is probably the econometrics modules, but if thats the case, you're probably better off doing the MA/MSc in Statistics in UCD tbh.

Couple more things. UCD's masters is more research based, less matsy and more diverse, so you get modules in health, industrial etc. TCDS course is more of an applied maths course with an economics flavor, stronger macroeconomics and more theoretical. If you have a maths background, then you'll be grand.

The fee difference might otherwise be exorbitant though. You have to weigh up exactly what you want and depending, the UCD might be better. I think the reputation thing matters more outside Ireland than in it say.

But be careful, it's a damn tough course and they don't **** around in there lol. They won't hesitate to fail you. Any other questions, let me know.

kermitpwee

Go to Nuim. Much better for Economics. Out of the aforementioned I would take Ucd.

DeBarraP

Thanks for the above info. It's much appreciated, as it is very hard to get any detailed information about courses.

I have recently received approval in principle from my employer for the MSc. in Economics in TCD. I am now looking to prepare myself for the course and would like advice.

To date I have an undergraduate degree in maths and a msc in financial maths; so believe I have the appropriate basis background. Over the last number of years, I have been trying to upskill on economic stuff. Based on personal interest and reviews on amazon I have collected the below books.

Micro:
a) *Microeconomic Analysis by Varian
b) Microeconomic Theory by Mas-Colell, Winston & Green
c) Advanced Microeconomic Theory by Jehle & Reny

Macro:
a) *Advanced Macroeconomics by David Romer
b) *Introduction to Economic Growth by Jones

Econometrics
a) **Applied Econometric Time Series by Enders
b) Time Series Analysis by Hamilton
c) Econometric Analysis by Greene

General Mathematics for Economics:
a) **Mathematics for Economists by Simon & Blume
b) **Mathematical Tools for Economics by Turkington

* Books I am currently readying (both very challenging). These appear to best match the course content on the TCD website.
** Books I have read a significant proportion of in the past (over 50%).

I have a few more econ books, but I believe they are aimed at the undergraduate level.

Is anyone who has completed the MSc familiar with the above books and if so, could you advise which books you think would be most relevant and which not at all, or if there are other books that would be more useful.

Thanks in advance

DeBarraP

Thanks for the above info. It's much appreciated, as it is very hard to get any detailed information about courses.

I have recently received approval in principle from my employer for the MSc. in Economics in TCD. I am now looking to prepare myself for the course and would like advice.

To date I have an undergraduate degree in maths and a msc in financial maths; so believe I have the appropriate basis background. Over the last number of years, I have been trying to upskill on economic stuff. Based on personal interest and reviews on amazon I have collected the below books.

Micro:
a) *Microeconomic Analysis by Varian
b) Microeconomic Theory by Mas-Colell, Winston & Green
c) Advanced Microeconomic Theory by Jehle & Reny

Macro:
a) *Advanced Macroeconomics by David Romer
b) *Introduction to Economic Growth by Jones

Econometrics
a) **Applied Econometric Time Series by Enders
b) Time Series Analysis by Hamilton
c) Econometric Analysis by Greene

General Mathematics for Economics:
a) **Mathematics for Economists by Simon & Blume
b) **Mathematical Tools for Economics by Turkington

* Books I am currently readying (both very challenging). These appear to best match the course content on the TCD website.
** Books I have read a significant proportion of in the past (over 50%).

I have a few more econ books, but I believe they are aimed at the undergraduate level.

Is anyone who has completed the MSc familiar with the above books and if so, could you advise which books you think would be most relevant and which not at all, or if there are other books that would be more useful.

Thanks in advance

andrew

DeBarraP wrote: »

Thanks for the above info. It's much appreciated, as it is very hard to get any detailed information about courses.

I have recently received approval in principle from my employer for the MSc. in Economics in TCD. I am now looking to prepare myself for the course and would like advice.

To date I have an undergraduate degree in maths and a msc in financial maths; so believe I have the appropriate basis background. Over the last number of years, I have been trying to upskill on economic stuff. Based on personal interest and reviews on amazon I have collected the below books.

Micro:
a) *Microeconomic Analysis by Varian
b) Microeconomic Theory by Mas-Colell, Winston & Green
c) Advanced Microeconomic Theory by Jehle & Reny

We didn't use any Varian, and though the ones you have under b) were mentioned, we mostly used c.

Macro:
a) *Advanced Macroeconomics by David Romer
b) *Introduction to Economic Growth by Jones

We used a Smorgasbord of books for Macro, and sometimes no book. To the extent we used any book at all, it was international economics by Obstfeld and Rogoff.

Econometrics
a) **Applied Econometric Time Series by Enders
b) Time Series Analysis by Hamilton
c) Econometric Analysis by Greene

We used Enders for Time Series, Greene for a bit of everything (but mostly theory), and Econometric analysis of cross section and panel data by Wooldridge for Panel data.

General Mathematics for Economics:
a) **Mathematics for Economists by Simon & Blume
b) **Mathematical Tools for Economics by Turkington

The only book you really need to know is Chiang, Alpha C; Fundamental Methods of Mathematical Economics. We didn't use either of the books you mention.
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