Notice period query

Pomplamousse

Hi guys, just wondering if anyone could clarify my rights in the following situation:

I've been a tenant in my current house for the past 4.5 years, there are 3 of us living in the house. Our lease is usually renewed once a year around December time, however last month our landlord informed us that he would not be renewing the lease as he will be renovating. He has given us 2 months notice to leave the property.

I read recently that if you have been living in a property for over 4 years, then you are entitled to 112 days notice.

Does anyone know if this applies to my situation, even though technically our lease was up in December?

I am actually currently looking for somewhere new to move to. I'm just worried that I won't find somewhere decent before the 2 months is up and so it would be nice to have the back-up of being legally entitled to another 2 months in the current house.

Michael D Not Higgins

Yes 112 days notice would be what you are due. Perhaps come to an arrangement with the landlord and explain that everyone's aware the rental market isn't so great right now and you can be flexible with notice periods, etc. Make sure to say you have no intention to overhold (which is becoming all too common recently, including being unofficially advised by Threshold), and continue to pay rent.

If your landlord is a reasonable guy, he should be amenable to a compromise.

accensi0n

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

Yes 112 days notice would be what you are due. Perhaps come to an arrangement with the landlord and explain that everyone's aware the rental market isn't so great right now and you can be flexible with notice periods, etc. Make sure to say you have no intention to overhold (which is becoming all too common recently, including being unofficially advised by Threshold), and continue to pay rent.

If your landlord is a reasonable guy, he should be amenable to a compromise.

I see where you're coming from but I think that's actually incorrect. He has been living there 4.5 years, the notice was given last month. The initial 6 months after the 4 year mark is similar to the initial 6 months of part 4, the landlord can ask the tenant to vacate without reason, provided correct notice is provided.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/if_your_landlord_wants_you_to_leave.html

It depends at what point notice was actually given to the OP but my reading is that the landlord has given double the required notice.

I'm not 100% on this btw.

Michael D Not Higgins

accensi0n wrote: »

I see where you're coming from but I think that's actually incorrect. He has been living there 4.5 years, the notice was given last month. The initial 6 months after the 4 year mark is similar to the initial 6 months of part 4, the landlord can ask the tenant to vacate without reason, provided correct notice is provided.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/if_your_landlord_wants_you_to_leave.html

It depends at what point notice was actually given to the OP but my reading is that the landlord has given double the required notice.

I'm not 100% on this btw.

I didn't say anything about the reason. It's inconsequential to the advice on the notice period. Even if he's in the first 6 months of the second cycle, that doesn't negate the fact he's been there over 4 years.

112 days notice OP.

accensi0n

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

I didn't say anything about the reason. It's inconsequential to the advice on the notice period. Even if he's in the first 6 months of the second cycle, that doesn't negate the fact he's been there over 4 years.

112 days notice OP.

Cool, cheers. Gap in my understanding so. I thought that the first 6 months of every 4 year cycle reverted to 28 days notice.

quietsailor

OP - can you answer a few questions

1. Was your last lease Jan 20104 to Dec 2014 - or what period was it?
2. Was there was any lease signed after this date?
3. What date was given on the notice to vacate?

It's important to know this as you need to find out are you on a fixed term tenancy (and if so when it begins/ends) or on a Part IV (four) tenancy. There is no way for the LL to force you to vacate on a fixed term (they can ask/request alright - you don't have to comply though) but on a Part IV, depending on where it is on the cycle they can force you to vacate in certain circumstances.

From your original post it sounds like your on a Part IV as the fixed term tenancy has finished. Have you written to teh LL stating you intend to stay on under Part IV rules - you have to do this otherwise legally your not indicating you want to stay.

Michael D Not Higgins

quietsailor wrote: »

OP - can you answer a few questions

1. Was your last lease Jan 20104 to Dec 2014 - or what period was it?
2. Was there was any lease signed after this date?
3. What date was given on the notice to vacate?

It's important to know this as you need to find out are you on a fixed term tenancy (and if so when it begins/ends) or on a Part IV (four) tenancy. There is no way for the LL to force you to vacate on a fixed term (they can ask/request alright - you don't have to comply though) but on a Part IV, depending on where it is on the cycle they can force you to vacate in certain circumstances.

From your original post it sounds like your on a Part IV as the fixed term tenancy has finished. Have you written to teh LL stating you intend to stay on under Part IV rules - you have to do this otherwise legally your not indicating you want to stay.

You can't claim Part 4 after the landlord issues a valid termination notice. However the landlord appears to have issued incorrect notice in this case anyway.

quietsailor

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

You can't claim Part 4 after the landlord issues a valid termination notice. However the landlord appears to have issued incorrect notice in this case anyway.

But neither you nor I can can say anything about this as the OP has been vague. If there is a valid termination then the OP can't claim Part IV, if it's invalid then they can -- but until the OP provides clear information we're all just guessing - hence my original questions

Pomplamousse

Thanks for all your replies.

quietsailor wrote: »

OP - can you answer a few questions

1. Was your last lease Jan 20104 to Dec 2014 - or what period was it?
2. Was there was any lease signed after this date?
3. What date was given on the notice to vacate?

.

Sorry I'm a bit clueless when it comes to all these Part IV/fixed terms but I've answered your questions below:

1. The last lease was around late November/early December 2013-late November/early December 2014 (I'm not sure of exact dates as it's usually very casual, the landlord calls around to us on some evening in late November/early December that suits everyone & we then sign a new lease).
2. No there was no lease signed after this, he informed us in late November 2014 that he would not be renewing the lease.
3. He sent us a letter on December 2nd 2014 giving us notice to vacate by February 2nd 2015.

Thanks for any advice.

Michael D Not Higgins

Pomplamousse wrote: »

Thanks for all your replies.



Sorry I'm a bit clueless when it comes to all these Part IV/fixed terms but I've answered your questions below:

1. The last lease was around late November/early December 2013-late November/early December 2014 (I'm not sure of exact dates as it's usually very casual, the landlord calls around to us on some evening in late November/early December that suits everyone & we then sign a new lease).
2. No there was no lease signed after this, he informed us in late November 2014 that he would not be renewing the lease.
3. He sent us a letter on December 2nd 2014 giving us notice to vacate by February 2nd 2015.

Thanks for any advice.

In that case as soon as your lease ran out you immediately became Part 4 tenants under a periodic tenancy, and were entitled to 112 days notice in writing. Since the inital notice is invalid, the notice period will start again from whenever he issues correct notice. But as I've said before you could come to some arrangement with the landlord about the notice period as both he and yourselves aren't all too familiar with the correct procedures.

quietsailor

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

In that case as soon as your lease ran out you immediately became Part 4 tenants under a periodic tenancy, and were entitled to 112 days notice in writing. Since the inital notice is invalid, the notice period will start again from whenever he issues correct notice. But as I've said before you could come to some arrangement with the landlord about the notice period as both he and yourselves aren't all too familiar with the correct procedures.

^^^ this is the same answer I'd write - the only warning I'd add is that the PRTB have been accepting texts as valid notice recently so if he texted you or wrote to you back in November that'll be the start of the notice period so it's "that date" + 112 days = end of notice (date to vacate).

Can you remember how & when he said he wasn't renewing the lease?

How did he say he wouldn't be

Michael D Not Higgins

quietsailor wrote: »

^^^ this is the same answer I'd write - the only warning I'd add is that the PRTB have been accepting texts as valid notice recently so if he texted you or wrote to you back in November that'll be the start of the notice period so it's "that date" + 112 days = end of notice (date to vacate).

Can you remember how & when he said he wasn't renewing the lease?

How did he say he wouldn't be

The landlord didn't give correct notice in the first place, so it's invalid til he does. He can't backdate it now.

Again, the easiest thing to do is come to a mutual agreement.

Pomplamousse

quietsailor wrote: »

Can you remember how & when he said he wasn't renewing the lease?

How did he say he wouldn't be

He originally told us in person and then by an official letter a few days later.

Thanks for the advice guys, it's good to know that I am entitled to the full 112 days if I am still struggling to find somewhere over the next couple of weeks.
But as Michael D said, I'll talk to him & hopefully we can come to a mutual arrangement if this is the case. He's been a fairly decent landlord so I don't want to cause him a lot of trouble, I just don't want to end up being forced into moving somewhere that I'm not happy with just because I'm out of time, when legally I'm entitled to more time.