FCC considering 30km/h limit in residential areas

daymobrew

Control of Vehicle Speeds in Residential Areas

As part of a review of vehicle speeds in housing estates, Fingal County Council wishes to engage with interested parties in a non-statutory consultation process. In this regard, members of the public are invited to make submissions to the Council regarding their area.

In order to ensure that housing estate roads are as safe as possible for pedestrians, cyclists and especially children, the Council would particularly welcome submissions in relation to the possible introduction of a 30km/h speed limit in residential areas.

Submissions may be made on or before 22nd January 2015 by e-mail to roads@fingal.ie or in writing to:-

Alan Sherry, Administrative Officer, Operations Department,
Grove Road, Blanchardstown, Dublin 15.

The RSA found that the 50km/h limit is the one most frequently exceeded.

In the UK the "20's Plenty" campaign has a list of articles on their campaign. They may be a useful reference.

Victor

daymobrew wrote: »

The RSA found that the 50km/h limit is the one most frequently exceeded.

In the UK the "20's Plenty" campaign has a list of articles on their campaign. They may be a useful reference.

Hi, do you have a link for the original Fingal County Council document?

folan

all ive found is this on the site (its exactly what daymobrew posted)
http://www.fingal.ie/news-and-events/newspaper-advertisements/publishe--december/

daymobrew

folan wrote: »

all ive found is this on the site (its exactly what daymobrew posted)
http://www.fingal.ie/news-and-events/newspaper-advertisements/publishe--december/

I simply uploaded the PDF that is linked from that page. I found the PDF over Christmas but cannot remember where.

daymobrew

The Dublin Cycling Campaign made a submission to South Dublin County Council on its consultation about a 30km/h proposal. A cycling group in Skerries is working on one for the FCC consultation. I will ask them for links to their submissions to inspire us in Dublin 15.

Pinch Flat

I would be supportive of this, but it's hard to enforce and a 30kph zone in Dublin City centre - it's largely ignored.

Are there any other plans for traffic calming / speed abatement on the circulation roads (diswellstown and carpenterstown roads)

Larbre34

I wouldnt be supportive of it. Getting a modern vehicle to stay at or under 30 km/h requires more concentration on the speedo than on the road ahead. In winding suburban streets Id rather people were watching the road. Also drivers who are frustrated are not safe. Speed limits that change frequently within short distances are confusing and counter productive. They would also be used as a revenue generating tool where drivers wouldnt in reality be causing a danger and be unfairly penalised.

There will always be accidents, such as stray kids getting knocked down or collisions with bikes where the riders are unprotected, but the current stats for Fingal and Dublin generally are among the best in Europe and a convoluted 30 limit would have little effect and reduce the confidence of people in the system.

Regarding Diswellstown Road specifically, the only further speed abatement measure I can envisage is a brick wall built right across it.

folan

the odds of a pedestrian fatality in rhe event of an accident rise massively over 30kmph. i cant show if they reduce or increase the number of accidents themselves though, i would have to look into it

Victor

folan wrote: »

the odds of a pedestrian fatality in rhe event of an accident rise massively over 30kmph. i cant show if they reduce or increase the number of accidents themselves though, i would have to look into it

Increased speed increases the number of collisions and the severity of collisions.

beauf

Larbre34 wrote: »

...Regarding Diswellstown Road specifically, the only further speed abatement measure I can envisage is a brick wall built right across it.

What did they expect when they opened the Troy bridge and Porterstown rd to it. They're encouraging a ton of through traffic, in through housing estates and schools. Never mind the green belt.

daymobrew

The Dublin Cycling Campaign posted their submission. It is an easy-to-read version without photos.

daymobrew

Larbre34 wrote: »

I wouldnt be supportive of it. Getting a modern vehicle to stay at or under 30 km/h requires more concentration on the speedo than on the road ahead. In winding suburban streets Id rather people were watching the road. Also drivers who are frustrated are not safe. Speed limits that change frequently within short distances are confusing and counter productive. They would also be used as a revenue generating tool where drivers wouldnt in reality be causing a danger and be unfairly penalised.

A lower speed limit would be difficult to enforce - it would be hard for Gardai and speed camera vans to hide in residential estates (and note that the FCC consultation is *within* estates, not on distributor roads, which would remain at 50km/h).

Just put your foot very lightly on the accelerator, check your speed and then keep looking at the road. You will know by feel (foot and eyes) whether you are getting much faster. Going at or below 30 km/h makes for a somewhat relaxing drive where you have extra time to scan for and react to hazards. It is also quieter.

The distance to the main road (with its 50km/h limit) is not far. This small part of your journey at a lower speed will not cost you more than a few seconds, and, on "winding suburban streets", you are probably not going at a constant 50km/h so the time cost is even less than a simple (50 - 30) * distance type calculation.

daymobrew

Riverwood Residents Association completed their submission in support of a 30km/h speed limit in housing estate roads.

Dublin 15 Community Council also support the suggestion.

folan

Victor wrote: »

Increased speed increases the number of collisions

cool. I've just never seen any studies showing that reducing a speed limit from 50 to 30 has reduced the number of accidents.

Can you send me an example?

Pinch Flat

folan wrote: »

Can you send me an example?

I typed "speed reduction injuries 30 km/hr" into Google. Here's a selection of what is returned:

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/cutting-speed-limits-to-30km-h-reduces-road-accidents-1.1962210

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/lower-speed-limits-would-reduce-accidents-say-experts-30661956.html

http://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/10/5/257.full

http://www.irishhealth.com/article.html?id=6995

http://www.copenhagenize.com/2010/01/30-kmh-zones-work.html

daymobrew

folan wrote: »

cool. I've just never seen any studies showing that reducing a speed limit from 50 to 30 has reduced the number of accidents.

Can you send me an example?

The reduced braking distance would reduce the number of accidents.

The Injury Prevention article says: "There can be no doubt that decreasing vehicle travel speeds reduces stopping distances and impact speeds, and thus the incidence of serious casualties and fatalities."

Pinch Flat wrote: »

http://www.irishhealth.com/article.html?id=6995

Wow - Almost 10 years ago the HSE "called for the immediate introduction of a special speed limit of 30km/h outside every school and in every housing estate in the country."

I wonder how many have been injured or died outside schools and in housing estates in that time. :mad:

folan

Pinch Flat wrote: »

http://www.irishhealth.com/article.html?id=6995
http://www.copenhagenize.com/2010/01/30-kmh-zones-work.html

it wasnt the statistics around injuries i was interested in, I have seen dozens of reports which make that totally unnecessary.

I just find its easier to argue a point with specific data to back me up, and nothing works as well as numbers, especially when those numbers are money.

These two articles you linked to in particular have the most interesting stats relating to a reduction actual accident occurrences.

www.irishhealth.com wrote:

He added that in the UK, it had been shown that 30km/h zones reduced the incidence of road crashes by 60%

www.copenhagenize.com wrote:

Barcelona is developing more 'Zones 30' based on positive results. A 27% reduction of accidents in one area of the city, for example.

impressive stats.

Victor

folan wrote: »

cool. I've just never seen any studies showing that reducing a speed limit from 50 to 30 has reduced the number of accidents.

Can you send me an example?

Take a look at the bit here titled "Higher speeds: more accidents": http://ec.europa.eu/transport/wcm/road_safety/erso/knowledge/Content/20_speed/speed_and_accident_risk.htm