Question about the guards?

Daaryl

Quick question is all

I was heading out of town and met the gaurds on the roundabout and came back on the way i went to the roundabout to go back into town, I looked behind me and the gaurds were sitting at the roundabout anyway next minute they flew up behind and pulled me in.. And then asked to see my license, insurance etc etc, Checked everything on the car and it's not a car that would stand out it was a 1.9 tdi bora.. So anyway he was like what's with the driving so fast, Told him i wasn't going fast at all.. And he was claiming i was driving way over the speed limit.. So anyway he didn't say anything about giving me points when he stopped me and left me on me way, Now the next day i get a phone call and it was the gaurd saying i'm getting 2 points cause he was after looking at my driving record (i was a little bollox when i first started off driving :pac: ) So i didn't pay the fine cause i didn't do anything wrong.. Am i right in saying they don't have speed cameras in the small transits? Or am i wrong?

corktina

all they need is their word against yours.

greasepalm

yes seen the transit with camera in rear view window, just at the off ramp leading to where esmonde motors where,so was the rear of van pointing to you approaching it?

Markcheese

Daaryl wrote: »

Quick question is all

I was heading out of town and met the gaurds on the roundabout and came back on the way i went to the roundabout to go back into town, I looked behind me and the gaurds were sitting at the roundabout anyway next minute they flew up behind and pulled me in.. And then asked to see my license, insurance etc etc, Checked everything on the car and it's not a car that would stand out it was a 1.9 tdi bora.. So anyway he was like what's with the driving so fast, Told him i wasn't going fast at all.. And he was claiming i was driving way over the speed limit.. So anyway he didn't say anything about giving me points when he stopped me and left me on me way, Now the next day i get a phone call and it was the gaurd saying i'm getting 2 points cause he was after looking at my driving record (i was a little bollox when i first started off driving :pac: ) So i didn't pay the fine cause i didn't do anything wrong.. Am i right in saying they don't have speed cameras in the small transits? Or am i wrong?

That sounds odd- did you get a fine notice on the post yet ? Not surprised they chased you down if you did a 360 at a round about- (even innocently ) .gard in question obviously didn't show you a print out , or the back of the speed gun or anything so ?

Daaryl

greasepalm wrote: »

yes seen the transit with camera in rear view window, just at the off ramp leading to where esmonde motors where,so was the rear of van pointing to you approaching it?

It wasn't a gatso van!

Markcheese wrote: »

That sounds odd- did you get a fine notice on the post yet ? Not surprised they chased you down if you did a 360 at a round about- (even innocently ) .gard in question obviously didn't show you a print out , or the back of the speed gun or anything so ?

No he just said i was speeding, But i'm just wondering he can't just say i speeding when i wasn't?

Jesus.

Did you sshmoke them?

Mycroft H

Did you get a penalty notice? And if you didn't pay it you've a lovely trip down to the district court.

sblythe

Daaryl wrote: »

No he just said i was speeding, But i'm just wondering he can't just say i speeding when i wasn't?

He can.

Daaryl

sblythe wrote: »

He can.

Sure if that's the case, They could pull everybody over...

sblythe

Daaryl wrote: »

Sure if that's the case, They could pull everybody over...

They could.

Stheno

Did you give him a bit of lip?

Daaryl

Stheno wrote: »

Did you give him a bit of lip?

None at all..

sblythe

Count on getting 2 points anyway

Atlantic Dawn

I am pretty sure they need either to show you your speed on the speed gun or have photo/video evidence, their word alone wouldn't be enough if you contested it in court. 'Dangerous driving' would be another story.

keithclancy

Daaryl wrote: »

Quick question is all

I was heading out of town and met the gaurds on the roundabout and came back on the way i went to the roundabout to go back into town,

Eh ... what ?

kpd1982

Daaryl wrote: »

Quick question is all

I was heading out of town and met the gaurds on the roundabout and came back on the way i went to the roundabout to go back into town, I looked behind me and the gaurds were sitting at the roundabout anyway next minute they flew up behind and pulled me in.. And then asked to see my license, insurance etc etc, Checked everything on the car and it's not a car that would stand out it was a 1.9 tdi bora.. So anyway he was like what's with the driving so fast, Told him i wasn't going fast at all.. And he was claiming i was driving way over the speed limit.. So anyway he didn't say anything about giving me points when he stopped me and left me on me way, Now the next day i get a phone call and it was the gaurd saying i'm getting 2 points cause he was after looking at my driving record (i was a little bollox when i first started off driving :pac: ) So i didn't pay the fine cause i didn't do anything wrong.. Am i right in saying they don't have speed cameras in the small transits? Or am i wrong?

When you say you were a little bollox when first out driving did that also include anytime you may have been stopped???
There would be no speed cameras in the back of the small transit connects, if he did not show you a hand held radar gun with the detected speed on the back then you cant be done for speeding as there is no evidence of the exact speed you were travelling at at the time, chances are you might get a ticket for something else like driving without due care and attention, def not speeding though i think. just my 2 cents.

darragh o meara

sblythe wrote: »

Count on getting 2 points anyway

3 points for speeding nowadays

veetwin

sblythe wrote: »

He can.

For a motoring forum populated by so called enthusiasts there appears to be some woefully dodgy legal advice knocking about.

No a Garda cannot stand up a court and say anyone was speeding. He needs to prove it usually by way of an approved calibrated speed detection device. He can't just say mr x was driving too fast.

He may give an opinion as to speed as part of another offence such as careless driving where speed is a factor but even then it's dodgy and any decent solicitor would have it thrown out.

corktina

so he sends you a ticket and you go to court to contest it.... gonna risk 6 points (or is it 5)

sblythe

veetwin wrote: »

For a motoring forum populated by so called enthusiasts there appears to be some woefully dodgy legal advice knocking about.

No a Garda cannot stand up a court and say anyone was speeding. He needs to prove it usually by way of an approved calibrated speed detection device. He can't just say mr x was driving too fast.

He may give an opinion as to speed as part of another offence such as careless driving where speed is a factor but even then it's dodgy and any decent solicitor would have it thrown out.

Sorry - yes. This guard sounds like hes really out to get the op and if he brings him up for dangerous driving or driving without due care before he even mentioned speed on the night his record will be brought up and then the op can absolutely bank on getting points.

Not worth the hassle and I'd take two here and now before going to court and risking more.

I've been in op's shoes here.

pa990

veetwin wrote: »

For a motoring forum populated by so called enthusiasts there appears to be some woefully dodgy legal advice knocking about.

No a Garda cannot stand up a court and say anyone was speeding. He needs to prove it usually by way of an approved calibrated speed detection device. He can't just say mr x was driving too fast.

He may give an opinion as to speed as part of another offence such as careless driving where speed is a factor but even then it's dodgy and any decent solicitor would have it thrown out.

I agree with your first statement. .

But then you offer some dodgy advice of your own.

There is no such list of approved calibrated devices.

ardle1

Well the law is the law! So you either get points for speeding or you don't.
Surely the guard cant just head back to the barracks run your rap sheet and then decide over a cup of T and a donut,that he's gonna give you 2 penalty points and a fine. Shir that's just plain wrong!?

Henry Ford III

What fine didn't you pay OP, and how did the Garda get your number?

Daaryl

Henry Ford III wrote: »

What fine didn't you pay OP, and how did the Garda get your number?

He put it down for due care and attention even though he said i was speeding and i don't know how he got my number tbh

Daaryl

Daaryl wrote: »

He put it down for due care and attention even though he said i was speeding and i don't know how he got my number tbh

Yourself and the Gardai don't seem to get on at all OP

antodeco

You don't have any mates who are friends with Gardai? The fact he rang you is odd. It almost sounds like a windup!

berger89

Henry Ford III wrote: »

What fine didn't you pay OP, and how did the Garda get your number?

They have the details of whoever the car is registered to, I think?? Then again, OP, are you known to the guards?? If you are part of a group of boy racers or (not saying you are at al, just making a suggestionl) but town feckers/scumbags, they are probably gonna keep an eye out for you and your buddies

Toyotafanboi

the gard must be bluffing you. no way you could be speeding in a diesel bora.

seriously though, he could be giving you points for driving without due care and attention, this is like their blanket motoring offence points, when your level of foolishness doesn't quite fit a category. i got points for that before when i was young and thick. i was speeding like a nut job and flew out of town, not a care in the world, pretty stupidly, i reckon maybe 80km/h through a roundabout. around 15 minutes later i'm back in town and the gard pulls me in and the gards words were "i couldn't get close enough to you, you were going that hard so i had to let you go"

now he spend the first five minutes telling me he was going to take me to court and my license was as good as gone. then after a long hard chat he said he would just give me two points and let me be. what a man. genuinely i've never done anything so stupid since, you just need that one scare. if i didn't have my license i'd be screwed.

tl;dr: take the two points, leave it be.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

foggy_lad

corktina wrote: »

all they need is their word against yours.

Surely this garda should have told the op about the points/offence at the time instead of getting to the station and looking up his driving record and punishing the op for the sins of his past?

OP I would prepare a complaint for the GSOC

biko

How about you guys with knowledge use sources for your opinions?
I find that sources usually beats guessing.

corktina

post 24..."without due care and attention" ....as I said, Gard's word against his...

ironclaw

veetwin wrote: »

No a Garda cannot stand up a court and say anyone was speeding. He needs to prove it usually by way of an approved calibrated speed detection device. He can't just say mr x was driving too fast./QUOTE]

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2010/en/act/pub/0025/sec0081.html

This kinda flys in the face of that. There is no onus for a written or photographic record, nor is there one for it to be permanent. Also no proof of calibration is required.

So, taking a crooked Garda, he just has to say he pointed the laser gun at you and observed you speeding. Who can challenge them? Granted, it could be perjury but we're dealing with human nature here.

So really, its a Garda's word against yours.

Riskymove

ironclaw wrote: »

So really, its a Garda's word against yours.

you just have to think it through really. The need for a laser gun or other device suggests Guards cannot intervene in such cases unless they have a device.

So you could roar past a Garda Car and they couldn't intervene or prosecute you because they don't have a device? Unlikely.


The Guard cannot say that you were travelling at a certain speed as he does not have proof but can give his view of the incident and his opinion on what he saw and you can give yours. TBH your history may also work against you in court.

It comes down to the Judge and your legal rep so really I would get legal advice before proceeding to court by not paying.

ironclaw

Riskymove wrote: »

you just have to think it through really. The need for a laser gun or other device suggests Guards cannot intervene in such cases unless they have a device.

So you could roar past a Garda Car and they couldn't intervene or prosecute you because they don't have a device? Unlikely.


The Guard cannot say that you were travelling at a certain speed as he does not have proof but can give his view of the incident and his opinion on what he saw and you can give yours. TBH your history may also work against you in court.

It comes down to the Judge and your legal rep so really I would get legal advice before proceeding to court by not paying.

You have a very naive view of the world. I'll say that much.

In the case they don't have a device, they will pace you with the car. Again, unlike the UK, they don't need pacing kit or timed intervals. Being behind and observing you is enough.

Riskymove

ironclaw wrote: »

You have a very naive view of the world. I'll say that much.

huh?

given that I am agreeing with you, I suppose then you must be too?? :pac:

dr.fuzzenstein

So does that mean the judge can ask the Gard "How fast is he allowed to drive" and the Gard says "vroooom" and how fast was he driving?" Gard: "VROOM!". OK, 17 points for going VROOM in stead of vroooom.
This actually is valid evidence in Austria where a policeman is allowed to guess your speed.
Considering the amount of speeding cases that do get thrown out even with readouts and photographic evidence, I doubt that a Gard going "VROOM!" in a courtroom is considered evidence of speeding.

Joe 90

As the law was in Ireland, you could be done for speeding without a reading from a speed measuring device, if in the OPINION TWO Garda, you were speeding. For one Guard to do you he had to have a reading from a speedometer or other device.

Special Circumstances

Joe 90 wrote: »

As the law was in Ireland, you could be done for speeding without a reading from a speed measuring device, if in the OPINION TWO Garda, you were speeding. For one Guard to do you he had to have a reading from a speedometer or other device.

Only if he's wearing a hat! Etc etc.

I don't think the previous link to statute book makes any mention singular v plural ngardai.

Edit - I do apologise - the act does seem to support it " if proof of the offence involves proof of the speed at which a person (whether the accused or another person) was driving, the uncorroborated evidence of one witness stating his opinion as to that speed shall not be accepted as proof of that speed."

NEVER heard that one before!